What if we accepted each others Religion?

[CG Didymus]

That the scriptures contain more than one understanding is as old as scriptures themselvss, Baha'u'llah supports this, as did Judaism and Islam.

Okay, the Scriptures contain many meanings. What about the literal meaning?

And if interpreting verses is alright, then why complain about all the different sects? Going by what you believe all of them have a different, but correct, interpretation.

And can we apply that to everything in the Baha'i writings? Or are there somethings that are meant to be taken literally and not messed with?

Oh, and let's apply this to the Gospels and the rest of the NT. What in the NT do we know for sure? Isn't it only those verses that are quoted by Baha'u'llah and Abdul Baha?

So, if you quote something that they didn't quote, it's questionable to its reliability. Right? Which means to do that you'd be taking a verse that might not be correct and coming up with some special meanings to it. Great.

But again, you know for sure that the meaning most Christians give to the verses is wrong? Like if they take some verses that seem to make Jesus God, that they are interpreting them in that way, and make Jesus God. And then take some other verses and come up with a trinitarian God, they are wrong. That's not one of the many meanings? But whatever Baha'is come up with, those are legitimate.

Yes, I get it now.

 

[CG Didymus]

CG, your problem is with God and his Messages.

My problem is with what Baha'is believe. If it's true then great. But is it true? Does it sound like all religions came from the same source? A one true God?

To me, it sounds more like people invented their religions and their Gods.

 

[CG Didymus]

Thanks, I guess.

Did you want to ask something else?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If they don't have the authentic writings of the Buddha, how do Baha'is know that he taught and established the oneness of God?

You are not considering that both the Buddha and Baha'u'llah are Manifestations of God, born of the same eternal Holy Spirit and Annointed by God to give the eternal message, suited for the age they gave it. They are thus, One with God. Thus any teachings that teach contrary to this, are not Buddha's teachings.

The Message of Baha’u’llah is how we know the Buddha established the oneness of God.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Okay, the Scriptures contain many meanings. What about the literal meaning?

Up until the Baha'i Revelation, most passages were given in veiled meanings and metephor.

Baha'u'llah talks about those allusions often, such as;

"...The allusions made in the Scriptures have been unfolded, and the signs recorded therein have been revealed, and the prophetic cry is continually being raised.."

There is a reason, it is stated this way.

".....The other language is veiled and concealed, so that whatever lieth hidden in the heart of the malevolent may be made manifest and their innermost being be disclosed..."

There are many quotes. But I will not pursue them, if people are interested, they will.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

My problem is with what Baha'is believe. If it's true then great. But is it true? Does it sound like all religions came from the same source? A one true God?

To me, it sounds more like people invented their religions and their Gods.

If that's your choice, you get to live with that and it's consequences, as I live my life and it's consequences.

Regards Tony

 

[Kathryn]

Did you want to ask something else?

Nope.

 

[Trailblazer]

The Message of Baha’u’llah is how we know the Buddha established the oneness of God.

No, that was not the Message of Baha'u'llah. That is something that Abdu'l-Baha said.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, that was not the Message of Baha'u'llah. That is something that Abdu'l-Baha said.

Sorry, it is what Baha'u'llah said.

"These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attributes, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: “No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers.” For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory."

No one knew the Message of Baha’u’llah better then Abdul'baha and when you say such things about Abdul'baha, that is faith build on sand Trailblazer, it indicates shaky foundations, please be careful, I care greatly for you.

I offer out of Love, please read what Baha'u'llah says about Abdul'baha, all the praise He gives to Abdul'baha, the stations He gives to Abdul'baha, then read of the submission of Abdul'baha to Baha'u'llah. Despite all that praise, he named himself Abdul'baha. Such a gift is unique in this Revelation, a gift of the perfect example of the Spirit working in man.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Sorry, it is what Baha'u'llah said.

"These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station. One is the station of pure abstraction and essential unity. In this respect, if thou callest them all by one name, and dost ascribe to them the same attributes, thou hast not erred from the truth. Even as He hath revealed: “No distinction do We make between any of His Messengers.” For they, one and all, summon the people of the earth to acknowledge the unity of God, and herald unto them the Kawthar of an infinite grace and bounty. They are all invested with the robe of prophethood, and are honored with the mantle of glory."

Why do you always omit what follows that passage?

"The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof. In this respect, each Manifestation of God hath a distinct individuality, a definitely prescribed mission, a predestined revelation, and specially designated limitations. Each one of them is known by a different name, is characterized by a special attribute, fulfils a definite mission, and is entrusted with a particular Revelation. Even as He saith: “Some of the Apostles We have caused to excel the others. To some God hath spoken, some He hath raised and exalted. And to Jesus, Son of Mary, We gave manifest signs, and We strengthened Him with the Holy Spirit.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 50-56

Why do you keep trying to conflate all the Messengers of God as if they were one and the same person?
They were not one person or the same person and they did not have the same mission given to them by God.

No one knew the Message of Baha’u’llah better then Abdul'baha and when you say such things about Abdul'baha, that is faith build on sand Trailblazer, it indicates shaky foundations, please be careful, I care greatly for you.

I said nothing derogatory about Abdu'l-Baha.

You said: The Message of Baha’u’llah is how we know the Buddha established the oneness of God.
I said: No, that was not the Message of Baha'u'llah. That is something that Abdu'l-Baha said.

It does not matter if no one knew the Message of Baha’u’llah better then Abdu'l-Baha.
The fact remains that Baha'u'llah never said anything about how the Buddha established the oneness of God.

I offer out of Love, please read what Baha'u'llah says about Abdul'baha, all the praise He gives to Abdul'baha, the stations He gives to Abdul'baha, then read of the submission of Abdul'baha to Baha'u'llah. Despite all that praise, he named himself Abdul'baha. Such a gift is unique in this Revelation, a gift of the perfect example of the Spirit working in man.

You are free to feel however you want to about Abdu'l-Baha as am I. Our feelings do not make either one of us any more or less of a Baha'i.

 

[CG Didymus]

If that's your choice, you get to live with that and it's consequences, as I live my life and it's consequences.

Regards Tony

Lots of Jews had to make that kind of choice. Convert to a religion that has them confess their sins to a priest in a cathedral filled with statues? Where the number one belief is the Jesus is God?

Which was the better choice? Which was the right choice? To stay Jew or convert?

 

[CG Didymus]

You are not considering that both the Buddha and Baha'u'llah are Manifestations of God, born of the same eternal Holy Spirit and Annointed by God to give the eternal message, suited for the age they gave it. They are thus, One with God. Thus any teachings that teach contrary to this, are not Buddha's teachings.

Did Baha'u'llah say that the Buddha was a manifestation of God? Did the Buddha say he was a manifestation of God? Did any manifestation of God say that Buddha was a manifestation of God?

The closest thing we have is that some Hindus believe the Buddha was one of the many incarnations of Vishnu.

The Message of Baha’u’llah is how we know the Buddha established the oneness of God.

It sounds a little like saying we know God is real because Baha'u'llah said so. And we know Baha'u'llah was telling the truth because he was a manifestation of God.

But in all the teachings of the Buddha, where is it that he establishes the oneness of God?

Up until the Baha'i Revelation, most passages were given in veiled meanings and metephor.

So say the Baha'is. Which makes their symbolic interpretations somehow true? Like making the three "woes" Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah?

And you say "most" passages, So, let's not look at all the "veiled" ones, but tell me the few verses that weren't "veiled". Because I've already discussed several times about how the Baha'is make the verses about the resurrection "symbolic." Even though it is written as if that's exactly what happened. And it even says in Acts that Jesus showed himself to be alive by many proofs.

But that doesn't matter to Baha'is. And like I've said... I question that story and several other stories about Jesus too. But, unlike the Baha'is, I don't invent some symbolic interpretation to make it fit my beliefs.

And that's the problem... Because Baha'is have done it with Jesus, with Buddha, and with Krishna. Then if Baha'is really believe Adam, Noah and Abraham were manifestations, then I'm sorry, I have to question just how true the message of the Baha'i Faith can really be. Judaism and Christianity don't even make them into anything close to being manifestations. Why do the Baha'is?

The only thing I can think of is that it's a way for Baha'is to try and support their belief about "progressive" revelation. But none of those guys fits the Baha'i description of what manifestation is. They didn't bring a book. They didn't found a religion. And they sure didn't seem like they were "perfectly" polished mirror reflecting God.

 

[CG Didymus]

The Message of Baha’u’llah is how we know the Buddha established the oneness of God.

Buddha: neither accepted nor rejected God​

Therefore, the Buddha’s view on the concept of God was neither to accept, nor reject the concept of a creator or creation. Even if he believed in these things himself, he viewed the answers to these questions as not necessary to achieving enlightenment. So, a Buddhist can believe in, and even worship a God, should they wish but enlightenment can only be achieved by one’s own effort, it is completely up to the individual.​

​

However, atheism is also perfectly compatible with Buddhism too, and some Buddhist thinkers reject the concept of a creator based on Buddhist philosophy and doctrine.​

And here it makes it difficult for Baha'is to claim that the Buddha was a manifestation.

Among the founders of the world's major religions, the Buddha was the only teacher who did not claim to be other than an ordinary human being. Other teachers were either God or directly inspired by God. The Buddha was simply a human being and he claimed no inspiration from any God or external power.​

​

No, I take that back... It is incredibly easy for Baha'is to claim that the Buddha was a manifestation of God. And it's easy to prove it to themselves that it's true... Because their inerrant teachings say so.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, that was not the Message of Baha'u'llah. That is something that Abdu'l-Baha said.

I said nothing derogatory about Abdu'l-Baha.

What Abdul'baha said is the Essence of What Baha'u'llah said.

Why do you always omit what follows that passage?

The station of distinction is what is used against all Messengers, I have chosen to promote the station of absolute unity.

"Know thou assuredly that the essence of all the Prophets of God is one and the same. Their unity is absolute. God, the Creator, saith: There is no distinction whatsoever among the Bearers of My Message. – Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 78.

Arguments abound over the station of distinction, fed by our own opinions.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Lots of Jews had to make that kind of choice. Convert to a religion that has them confess their sins to a priest in a cathedral filled with statues? Where the number one belief is the Jesus is God?

Which was the better choice? Which was the right choice? To stay Jew or convert?

Confession may have never become doctrine and Idol filled Churches not raised, if more Jews had embraces Jesus Christ.

Confessions and use of artefacts are not teachings of Jesus Christ.

Consider also, we could say, what if people had accepted the Most Great Peace? The face of Baha'i would also be vastly different.

Regards Tony

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

You are not considering that both the Buddha and Baha'u'llah are Manifestations of God, born of the same eternal Holy Spirit and Annointed by God to give the eternal message, suited for the age they gave it. They are thus, One with God. Thus any teachings that teach contrary to this, are not Buddha's teachings.

The Message of Baha’u’llah is how we know the Buddha established the oneness of God.

Regards Tony

The chauvinism runs deep.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Buddha: neither accepted nor rejected God​

Therefore, the Buddha’s view on the concept of God was neither to accept, nor reject the concept of a creator or creation. Even if he believed in these things himself, he viewed the answers to these questions as not necessary to achieving enlightenment. So, a Buddhist can believe in, and even worship a God, should they wish but enlightenment can only be achieved by one’s own effort, it is completely up to the individual.​

​

However, atheism is also perfectly compatible with Buddhism too, and some Buddhist thinkers reject the concept of a creator based on Buddhist philosophy and doctrine.​

And here it makes it difficult for Baha'is to claim that the Buddha was a manifestation.

Among the founders of the world's major religions, the Buddha was the only teacher who did not claim to be other than an ordinary human being. Other teachers were either God or directly inspired by God. The Buddha was simply a human being and he claimed no inspiration from any God or external power.​

​

No, I take that back... It is incredibly easy for Baha'is to claim that the Buddha was a manifestation of God. And it's easy to prove it to themselves that it's true... Because their inerrant teachings say so.

Thus the quandary we all face of recorded history CG. What is accurate, from the source and what is not.

A good example is the Quran correcting the Christian doctrine, beleive it was a God given correction, or do not!

I am not here to change your mind, just offer that there is other choices.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The chauvinism runs deep.

It is eternal, as God is One God.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Okay, the Scriptures contain many meanings. What about the literal meaning?

We all get a chance to discuss and decide.

It never has to be a cause of conflict.

Regards Tony

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It is eternal, as God is One God.

Regards Tony

My religion says that you're wrong on that.

So does your religion, since only the aspects of your religion that agree with me are genuine.

(This is how this works, right?)