What if we accepted each others Religion?

[TransmutingSoul]

Maybe even with that, a Baha'is would be even more subtle. But "teaching" is giving people a nudge, a slight push to at least investigate the Baha'i Faith with the hope they someday convert.

CG. My hope is that God's Will be done. That may be that no one else ever accepts the Baha'i Faith.

So be it. So take it or leave it, it is not my concern what you or anybody chooses to accept, it is a personal connection between a person and God.

Regards Tony

 

[CG Didymus]

I know you would as well, so, we care for all those on RF, every single person that has graced the pages of RF. We ask for them one and all, what we would ask for our own selves, and ask for them more.

And we care about you too. We want you to make sure you are being suckered into believing in some cult religion.

But, in a way, most all religions are cults. Like a religion that worships their prophet like a God. A religion that believes some angel guided him to some Golden Plates. Like a religion that follows a man that claims to be the Mahdi.

Now Baha'is say that people should abandon all their superstitious beliefs. Which are what? Beliefs that can't be backed up by science? If that's correct, then even Baha'is have some beliefs that can be supported by science. But which religion does?

So... maybe all of them are cults? At least all of them with some charismatic leader that claimed to be sent by some God.

We can't be sure. We've got to be careful. And some of us, in our investigation, so far, aren't convinced that the Baha'i Faith is legitimate.

 

[danieldemol]

We are all ignorant of what people will choose for their own selves in the future. The greater goal is a prediction of the fruits of the teachings of Baha'u'llah.

You appear to be contradicting yourself in my view. You say we are all ignorant of people's choices then say predictions can be made.

Having said that the fact appears to be to me that this "greater goal" you speak of is conversion of the world's people. Whether its also a prediction is irrelevant to my claims in my view.

Having a vision of what can be, enables us to live that unity now amongst a very divided and fractured world, amongst a vast majority that fear change, change that is now very obviously inevitable.

We are constantly working towards the greater goal, as have been Christians and Muslims.

It lays within acceptance of all of humanity as one people on one planet.

Regards Tony

I accept that all humans are one people but reject the Baha'i Faith.

 

[CG Didymus]

You as a heterodox member of the Baha'i faith do not speak for the goals of the mainstream (Haifan) community in my view.

Can you show any current literature from the (Haifan) Universal House of Justice unambiguously demonstrating that the goal of the "Most Great Peace" in which all are to be united in, "one common faith" has been abandoned?

If the Baha'i Faith is the truth, what else could be or should be the goal? It would be the truth from an Almighty Creator God.

We'd all be dumb not to listen to that God... unless... the message isn't really from a God. And how would we determine that? Hmmm? Maybe by doing what we're doing? Asking a lot of hard questions?

We both been in there and close up to the inner workings. Our questions need to be answered.

 

[CG Didymus]

CG. My hope is that God's Will be done. That may be that no one else ever accepts the Baha'i Faith.

So be it. So take it or leave it, it is not my concern what you or anybody chooses to accept, it is a personal connection between a person and God.

Regards Tony

If the world doesn't accept the Baha'i Faith, I don't see how the Baha'i plan for peace can work. All you'd get is a fragile form of the "lesser" peace. Run by a World Tribunal of the same type of world leaders we have right now.

If you believe the Baha'i Faith is true and is our only hope for peace, then go ahead teach, push it, promote it, but let us ask you questions about the things we disagree with and see as potential problems with your beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

You as a heterodox member of the Baha'i faith do not speak for the goals of the mainstream (Haifan) community in my view.

When did I ever say that I was a heterodox member of the Baha'i Faith?

Can you show any current literature from the (Haifan) Universal House of Justice unambiguously demonstrating that the goal of the "Most Great Peace" in which all are to be united in, "one common faith" has been abandoned?

I never said hat the goal of the "Most Great Peace" has been abandoned.

Where did you get the idea that the goal of the Baha'i Faith is for everyone to be united in "one common faith"?
The only passage that I am aware of is the following one, but it only says that this is what God has ordained, it does not say this is the goal of the Baha'i Faith.

Moreover, nowhere does it say that "one common faith" will be called the Baha'i Faith.

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, Pages 88-96

 

[Trailblazer]

If the world doesn't accept the Baha'i Faith, I don't see how the Baha'i plan for peace can work.

Everyone in the world would not have to accept the Bahai Faith in order for the Baha'i peace plan to work.

 

[Trailblazer]

We can't be sure. We've got to be careful. And some of us, in our investigation, so far, aren't convinced that the Baha'i Faith is legitimate.

If you do not know if the Baha'i Faith is true or false by now, after having investigated it for over 50 years, why do you think continuing to investigate it is going to make any difference? Do you imagine that you are going to suddenly realize that it is the truth because of something 'new' that you discover?

I am just trying to be logical.

 

[danieldemol]

When did I ever say that I was a heterodox member of the Baha'i Faith?

You didn't have to say it, you demonstrated it with the public expression of your heterodox beliefs - such as that Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi are not infallible with respect to Baha'i teachings and your constantly stated extremely divergent personal views in my view.

I never said hat the goal of the "Most Great Peace" has been abandoned.

Where did you get the idea that the goal of the Baha'i Faith is for everyone to be united in "one common faith"?

Well if you knew anything about the (Haifan) Baha'i Most Great Peace at all you would know the key distinguishing feature between that and the lesser peace is to have everyone united in one common faith in my view.

I'm sure you can get away with parading such ignorance in front of a non-Baha'i or newly Baha'i audience, but Baha'i who are highly familiar with a deep understanding of the Baha'i teachings of the Most Great Peace will smell you coming a mile off in my view

The only passage that I am aware of is the following one, but it only says that this is what God has ordained, it does not say this is the goal of the Baha'i Faith.

So you have the audacity to claim (Haifan) Baha'i goals are not aligned to what they believe their God wants of them? Like i said a deeply informed Baha'i would smell you a mile off.

Moreover, nowhere does it say that "one common faith" will be called the Baha'i Faith.

“That which the Lord hath ordained as the sovereign remedy and mightiest instrument for the healing of all the world is the union of all its peoples in one universal Cause, one common Faith. This can in no wise be achieved except through the power of a skilled, an all-powerful and inspired Physician. This, verily, is the truth, and all else naught but error.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, Pages 88-96

Thanks for clarifying that the "one common faith" referred to is really the Jehovah's Witnesses or any other faith than the Baha'i faith, like I said a deeply informed Baha'i would smell your heterodoxy a mile away in my view.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If you do not know if the Baha'i Faith is true or false by now, after having investigated it for over 50 years, why do you think continuing to investigate it is going to make any difference? Do you imagine that you are going to suddenly realize that it is the truth because of something 'new' that you discover?

I am just trying to be logical.

I always like this passage by Baha'u'llah on this aspect of Faith.

".......That seeker should also regard backbiting as grievous error, and keep himself aloof from its dominion, inasmuch as backbiting quencheth the light of the heart, and extinguisheth the life of the soul. He should be content with little, and be freed from all inordinate desire. He should treasure the companionship of those that have renounced the world, and regard avoidance of boastful and worldly people a precious benefit. At the dawn of every day he should commune with God, and with all his soul persevere in the quest of his Beloved. He should consume every wayward thought with the flame of His loving mention, and, with the swiftness of lightning, pass by all else save Him. He should succor the dispossessed, and never withhold his favor from the destitute. He should show kindness to animals, how much more unto his fellowman, to him who is endowed with the power of utterance. He should not hesitate to offer up his life for his Beloved, nor allow the censure of the people to turn him away from the Truth. He should not wish for others that which he doth not wish for himself, nor promise that which he doth not fulfill. With all his heart should the seeker avoid fellowship with evildoers, and pray for the remission of their sins. He should forgive the sinful, and never despise his low estate, for none knoweth what his own end shall be. How often hath a sinner, at the hour of death, attained to the essence of faith, and, quaffing the immortal draft, hath taken his flight unto the celestial Concourse. And how often hath a devout believer, at the hour of his soul’s ascension, been so changed as to fall into the nethermost fire. Our purpose in revealing these convincing and weighty utterances is to impress upon the seeker that he should regard all else beside God as transient, and count all things save Him, Who is the Object of all adoration, as utter nothingness...."

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I said a deeply informed Baha'i would smell your heterodoxy a mile away in my view.

All those Baha'i knows there is only one Baha'i Faith called the Baha'i Faith, that allows for differences of opinion, a Baha'i Faith that @Trailblazer is part of.

Those Baha'i also know that people will grasp on to the claims of a handful of covernant breakers and try to impute there is other Baha'i Faiths, when there is obviously not. One person can set up a website, but there is no universal Faith behind such an effort of deception. A deception many grasping at straws will use for their own agenda.

Regard Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

You didn't have to say it, you demonstrated it with the public expression of your heterodox beliefs - such as that Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi are not infallible with respect to Baha'i teachings and your constantly stated extremely divergent personal views in my view.

Some Baha'is might believe that Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi are infallible but there is no reason to believe that.
Just as Christians interpret the Bible differently, Bahais interpret the Baha'i Writings differently, so we are not all going to agree on everything. That does not make me a heterodox Baha'i. It only makes me a Baha'i with my own opinion.

Well if you knew anything about the (Haifan) Baha'i Most Great Peace at all you would know the key distinguishing feature between that and the lesser peace is to have everyone united in one common faith in my view.

I would like to see where that is in the Baha'i Writings.

So you have the audacity to claim (Haifan) Baha'i goals are not aligned to what they believe their God wants of them? Like i said a deeply informed Baha'i would smell you a mile off.

Of course Baha'i goals are aligned to what they believe their God wants of them.

Thanks for clarifying that the "one common faith" referred to is really the Jehovah's Witnesses or any other faith than the Baha'i faith, like I said a deeply informed Baha'i would smell your heterodoxy a mile away in my view.

I do not care what a deeply informed Baha'i would do. If Baha'is want to believe that the one common Faith will be the Baha'i Faith they are free to believe that, but Baha'u'llah did not write that so I do not believe it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

And we care about you too. We want you to make sure you are being suckered into believing in some cult religion.

Have no fear. I have not, nor has anyone that has embraced Baha'u'llah.

Regard Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You appear to be contradicting yourself in my view. You say we are all ignorant of people's choices then say predictions can be made

I am aware of what Shoghi Effendi has offered on this topic. You may not be.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

How often hath a sinner, at the hour of death, attained to the essence of faith, and, quaffing the immortal draft, hath taken his flight unto the celestial Concourse. And how often hath a devout believer, at the hour of his soul’s ascension, been so changed as to fall into the nethermost fire.

No, it is never too late, since we have up until we take our last breath.
I just saw that on an episode of Touched by an Angel last night.

 

[Trailblazer]

Have no fear. I have not, nor has anyone that has embraced Baha'u'llah.

I have some fears, but I have never been afraid that I made a mistake about Baha'u'llah, not in 54 years.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

No, it is never too late, since we have up until we take our last breath.
I just saw that on an episode of Touched by an Angel last night.

That is great entertainment. I wonder how many view such entertainment these days!

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I have some fears, but I have never been afraid that I made a mistake about Baha'u'llah, not in 54 years.

I have come to fear myself and my choices most of all. Which I assume is born out of a fear of forgoing the Love of God.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

And we care about you too. We want you to make sure you are being suckered into believing in some cult religion.

 

[Trailblazer]

I wonder how many view such entertainment these days!

Sadly, probably not many.