What if we accepted each others Religion?

[danieldemol]

All those Baha'i knows there is only one Baha'i Faith called the Baha'i Faith, that allows for differences of opinion, a Baha'i Faith that @Trailblazer is part of.

Write to the (Haifan) Baha'i Universal House of Justice informing them that Trailblazer does not accept the conferred infallibility of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi and we'll see how long she is allowed to remain part of the Haifan community without retraction of her claims in my view.

Those Baha'i also know that people will grasp on to the claims of a handful of covernant breakers and try to impute there is other Baha'i Faiths, when there is obviously not. One person can set up a website, but there is no universal Faith behind such an effort of deception. A deception many grasping at straws will use for their own agenda.

Regard Tony

Some of those people see themselves as Bahai and not affiliated with the Haifan Universal House of Justice Tony. There beliefs are not matching the Haifan based community with regards to such central issues as how the faith should be organised, how certain of the writings should be interpreted. In my opinion it is more honest and less agenda driven just to call them separate sub-sects. That there numbers are relatively small compared to the Haifan community seems irrelevant to the point to me.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If the world doesn't accept the Baha'i Faith, I don't see how the Baha'i plan for peace can work. All you'd get is a fragile form of the "lesser" peace. Run by a World Tribunal of the same type of world leaders we have right now.

If you believe the Baha'i Faith is true and is our only hope for peace, then go ahead teach, push it, promote it, but let us ask you questions about the things we disagree with and see as potential problems with your beliefs.

I have mentioned many times that the Lesser Peace is not built by the Baha'i, we will be part of it.

There is absolutely no way of pushing something that Baha'i have come to know that very few will currentlt accept. All we can do is keep offering the solutions and see how many eventually get embraced by people, people that will not yet attribute the chosen solutions to the source.

Regards Tony

 

[YoursTrue]

Please explain what it means to accept everyone else's religion. Thanks. In other words, how would we do that?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Write to the (Haifan) Baha'i Universal House of Justice informing them that Trailblazer does not accept the conferred infallibility of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi and we'll see how long she is allowed to remain part of the Haifan community without retraction of her claims in my view.

Why think up such a nasty thing?

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

Sadly, probably not many.

I was just watching the first episode of "The Wire", and it's full of realistic life in Baltimore with a lot of profanity. This is what critics like. I only have a short life, so I'm not watching any more of this. It being in Baltimore is not enough. I don't want to watch the debased character of city life.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Please explain what it means to accept everyone else's religion. Thanks. In other words, how would we do that?

One path could be to pick the fruit in each faith, search all things and holding on to what is good.

This requires consultation on a level we are all yet to consider. A global conversation on the oneness of humanity and how a unity in our diversity can be founded, how the unity of Nations can be founded.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I was just watching the first episode of "The Wire", and it's full of realistic life in Baltimore with a lot of profanity. This is what critics like. I only have a short life, so I'm not watching any more of this. It being in Baltimore is not enough. I don't want to watch the debased character of city life.

This is a wonderful consideration.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

Write to the (Haifan) Baha'i Universal House of Justice informing them that Trailblazer does not accept the conferred infallibility of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi and we'll see how long she is allowed to remain part of the Haifan community without retraction of her claims in my view.

This reply shows you have no idea what the Covenant of Baha'u'llah is at all. It has nothing to do with heterodox views. Either that or you are pretending for an audience that you don't.

 

[danieldemol]

Why think up such a nasty thing?

Regards Tony

It is only nasty if they would do something nasty to her in my view.

Can we take your response as a confession that the (Haifan) Baha'i Universal House of Justice would do something nasty to her if it discovered she was adamant in her heterodox beliefs concerning the infallibility of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi?

 

[Trailblazer]

I was just watching the first episode of "The Wire", and it's full of realistic life in Baltimore with a lot of profanity. This is what critics like. I only have a short life, so I'm not watching any more of this. It being in Baltimore is not enough. I don't want to watch the debased character of city life.

Anymore, the TV programs I like to watch are on the Hallmark channels. No sex or violence, just good old-fashioned family values. My favorite show ever is When Calls the Heart but I just started to watch the series called Chesapeake Shores.

I still watch Law & Order, Forensic Files and the Investigation Discovery channel, since I like shows about crime and law.

 

[danieldemol]

This reply shows you have no idea what the Covenant of Baha'u'llah is at all. It has nothing to do with heterodox views. Either that or you are pretending for an audience that you don't.

It does when those views constitute denial of the conferred infallibility of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi in my view.

If you doubt it write to the (Haifan) Baha'i Universal House of Justice telling them that Trailblazer denies the conferred infallibility of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi and see how long she gets to retain her membership amd good standding without retracting her claim and the proof will be in the pudding in my view.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It is only nasty if they would do something nasty to her in my view.

Can we take your response as a confession that the (Haifan) Baha'i Universal House of Justice would do something nasty to her if it discovered she was adamant in her heterodox beliefs concerning the infallibility of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi?

No you can not. Those are you views not mine.

Regards Tony

 

[danieldemol]

No you can not. These are you views not mine.

Regards Tony

Then can you explain why my suggestion is "nasty"? Surely if there are no repercussions for Trailblazer there is nothing nasty in writing to your leadership, you could even do it generally just asking them for a public statement concerning whether or not one could be a Baha'i with full administrative privileges and be in good standing if they are adamant that Shoghi Effendi and Abdul-Baha are not having conferred infallibility?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

AA

It does when those views constitute denial of the conferred infallibility of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi in my view.

If you doubt it write to the (Haifan) Baha'i Universal House of Justice telling them that Trailblazer denies the conferred infallibility of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi and see how long she gets to retain her membership amd good standding without retracting her claim and the proof will be in the pudding in my view.

I note your continued intent to place a separation within the Baha'is Faith, with the incorrect use of the name of the only Baha'i Faith.

The statement you made indicates little knowledge of a persons journey and growth in faith, and of the process of the Baha'i administrative order, which must all be based in Love.

Stating that we should write to the administrative head of the Baha'i Faith, is not an action made in the knowledge of that love, is in no way required, and is insulting to Trailblazer and an Baha'i posting here.

Then can you explain why my suggestion is "nasty"? Surely if there are no repercussions for Trailblazer there is nothing nasty in writing to your leadership, you could even do it generally just asking them for a public statement concerning whether or not one could be a Baha'i with full administrative privileges and be in good standing if they are adamant that Shoghi Effendi and Abdul-Baha are not having conferred infallibility?

If you are not able to see that, I do not know what I can offer to you. Maybe this Biblical Verse.

"...How can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye..."

Can you see why in that verse?

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

It does when those views constitute denial of the conferred infallibility of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi in my view.

If you doubt it write to the (Haifan) Baha'i Universal House of Justice telling them that Trailblazer denies the conferred infallibility of Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi and see how long she gets to retain her membership amd good standding without retracting her claim and the proof will be in the pudding in my view.

Of course it won't. She didn't do anything wrong.

 

[danieldemol]

Of course it won't

Vague statement in my view, are you saying the proof won't be in the pudding?

 

[Truthseeker]

Vague statement in my view, are you saying the proof won't be in the pudding?

Look again. I edited my answer.

 

[an anarchist]

What if we accepted each others religion?

Me: What a lovely idea! I want to click and see more!
*opens thread*

Firstly I am only referring to the major religions.

Oh…
*closes thread*

 

[YoursTrue]

What if we accepted each others religion?

Me: What a lovely idea! I want to click and see more!
*opens thread*

Oh…
*closes thread*

How will it relate? For instance, if I were to "accept" someone else's religion, would that mean I could or would pray to saints or gods other than the One I believe is the Most High?

 

[danieldemol]

AA

I note your continued intent to place a separation within the Baha'is Faith, with the incorrect use of the name of the only Baha'i Faith.

I note your insistence that I agree there is only one Baha'i faith, but if we agreed we would both be wrong in my view.

The statement you made indicates little knowledge of a persons journey and growth in faith, and of the process of the Baha'i administrative order, which must all be based in Love.

Which is why you must be insistent that the individual in question is adamant in the view that Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi are not infallible no matter how much love and deepening is provided, that should be a useful starting point for further investigation in my view.

Stating that we should write to the administrative head of the Baha'i Faith, is not an action made in the knowledge of that love, is in no way required, and is insulting to Trailblazer and an Baha'i posting here.

Can you state why it is not loving if there are no repercussions?

As for it being not required, of course the independent investigation of truth is not required, albeit it is not without consequence if we fail to do so in my view.

As for the percieved insult many a truth has proven to be insulting - that is none of my concern as i see it.

If you are not able to see that, I do not know what I can offer to you. Maybe this Biblical Verse.

"...How can you say to your brother, `Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye..."

Can you see why in that verse?

Regards Tony

Ad-hominem, you are accusing me of vague hypocrisy rather than acknowledging the truth of the point in my view - which is that there would be repercussions for Trailblazer if you did so and she remained adamant in the view that Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi do not have conferred infallibility.

I note you appear not prepared to even address my suitable alternative which is to ask them without reference to a specific individual could any individual remain adamant after loving deepening that Abdul-Baha and Shoghi Effendi are not infallible and remain in good standing and with full voting and administrative privileges in the Baha'i community in my view