What If Your Country Becomes Islamic

[Revoltingest]

I'm sorry you think so. It was an honest and considered answer. As I said, the government does not have the power to do such things here. If the gov introduced sucha regime, they would cease to be the government.

I don't question your honesty at all. But it would be more fun to imagine the extraordinarily unlike event of an oppressive Islamic regime taking over our countries. I went along....addressing it with armed resistance. You just say it wouldn't happen. Dull! Dull! Dull!

 

[Bunyip]

I don't question your honesty at all. But it would be more fun to imagine the extraordinarily unlike event of an oppressive Islamic regime taking over our countries. I went along....addressing it with armed resistance. You just say it wouldn't happen. Dull! Dull! Dull!

I think you have misread the OP mate, it asks what would happen if the govt introduced islamic law.

 

[Revoltingest]

We come that much closer to attaining global sanity.

So.....peace resulting from your immediately surrendering to the aggressor is "global sanity"?
Oh, dear.

I don't think the war was won easily at all. In fact, I don't think it could have been kept much longer. It is my understanding that it put the economic capabilities of its main players under severe strains.

As things went, the US was doing quite well near the end. But the middle....that is where chaos lay.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think you have misread the OP mate, it asks what would happen if the govt introduced islamic law.

Here is the beginning of it.....

Somehow your government declares islam as your new national religion.You are expected to comply with rules like:

To me, this direct quote of the OP means a powerful central Islamic government which imposes these rules upon all citizens. This is more than merely introducing Islamic law.

 

[Bunyip]

Here is the beginning of it.....

To me, this direct quote of the OP means a powerful central Islamic government which imposes these rules upon all citizens. This is more than merely introducing Islamic law.

I guess we are just interpreting it differently.

 

[Revoltingest]

I guess we are just interpreting it differently.

Let's look at the complete OP....

Somehow your government declares islam as your new national religion.You are expected to comply with rules like:
-All kinds of alcohol use is forbidden
-Premarital sex is forbidden
-Women should cover themselves from head to toe
-You cannot talk about and practice anthing not compatible with islam such as athesim , evolution

The government:
- Declares Islam the national religion.
- Applies these extreme (proffered as Islamic) restrictions upon you.
(The generality of this "you" would mean applicability to all.)

Could this mean anything other than a strong authoritarian central government?
Such a governmental change would happen by some method & for reasons. They would be extraordinary. What possible methods & reasons could be waved away peacefully in short order?

 

[Father Heathen]

Not a great example I'm afraid Father. The US has the highest incarceration rate on earth and famously brutal and violent prisons. Not to forget Abu Ghraib and the practice of rendition. In fact the US is one of the only developed countries that still advocates for the use of torture and rendition, and executes more of it's citizens than almost any other country.

They did.

But seeing how we pretty much forgot about them since and have become jaded by air bombings to the point of saying with a clean face that they "help peace", one must ask whether that mattered in the long run. It is quite unclear whether the current world is better off overall with the Allies having won WW2 than it would be if the Axis had won.

Yes, of course the U.S. is imperfect and guilty of many things, and we should acknowledge this and strive to correct it, but it takes a sore lack of credibility and integrity to suggest that the U.S. is or was comparable to brutal dictatorships such as Nazi Germany and its allies.

 

[Bunyip]

Let's look at the complete OP....

The government:
- Declares Islam the national religion.
- Applies these extreme (proffered as Islamic) restrictions upon you.
(The generality of this "you" would mean applicability to all.)

Could this mean anything other than a strong authoritarian central government?
Such a governmental change would happen by some method & for reasons. They would be extraordinary. What possible methods & reasons could be waved away peacefully in short order?

Were the govt in Aus to do so, they would cease to be the govt. The Aus govt does not have the power, militarily or otherwise to enforce such a policy. there would need to be no armed uprising, because the govt can not prosecute it's will against the people without consent.

 

[Bunyip]

Yes, of course the U.S. is imperfect and guilty of many things, and we should acknowledge this and strive to correct it, but it takes a sore lack of credibility and integrity to suggest that the U.S. is or was comparable to brutal dictatorships such as Nazi Germany and its allies.

Sorry, but that is not what it looks like from outside of the US. I would point out that Germany under the NAZI never imprisoned the proportion of the population even during wartime that the US has in it's prisons in peacetime. I am not judging who is better or worse, just saying that it is not as clear as it looks from inside the US.

As I suggested earlier - ask the Filipinos, the US led dictatorship and occupation was as brutal and violent as any in history.

 

[Revoltingest]

Were the govt in Aus to do so, they would cease to be the govt. The Aus govt does not have the power, militarily or otherwise to enforce such a policy. there would need to be no armed uprising, because the govt can not prosecute it's will against the people without consent.

Again, you're arguing that the hypothetical is impossible.
I bet you're no fun at parties!

 

[Bunyip]

Again, you're arguing that the hypothetical is impossible.
I bet you're no fun at parties!

No, I'm arguing that should what has been hypothesized occur - the govt would cease to exist shortly afterwards.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sorry, but that is not what it looks like from outside of the US. I would point out that Germany under the NAZI never imprisoned the proportion of the population even during wartime that the US has in it's prisons in peacetime. I am not judging who is better or worse, just saying that it is not as clear as it looks from inside the US.

You are technically correct about the levels of imprisonment. But that's only because the Nazis incinerated the prisoners, resulting in a relatively lower prison population at any one time. I'd say imprisoning too many convicted criminals is not as bad as incinerating millions of innocent people.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, I'm arguing that should what has been hypothesized occur - the govt would cease to exist shortly afterwards.

I don't believe a government capable of seizing such extraordinary power would simply cease to exist right after coming to power. It would be the kind of government which would use brutal force to continue enjoying this power.

 

[Bunyip]

You are technically correct about the levels of imprisonment. But that's only because the Nazis incinerated the prisoners, resulting in a relatively prison population at any one time. I'd say imprisoning too many convicted criminals
is not as bad as incinerating millions of innocent people.

The US has the highest incarceration rate on earth, however you cut it. it is the last place I would look to for freedom.

The NAZI did not incinerate prisoners by the way, we are talking about prisoners of war and criminals in the criminal justice system, not the abomination of the final solution.

 

[Revoltingest]

The US has the highest incarceration rate on earth, however you cut it. it is the last place I would look to for freedom.

It's not so bad for non-criminals. But I think the incarceration rate is far too high also.

The NAZI did not incinerate prisoners by the way, we are talking about prisoners of war and criminals in the criminal justice system, not the abomination of the final solution.

The millions of incinerated (& buried) prisoners would disagree....if they could.
Alas, you cannot just remove the "final solution" from the moral balance sheet of the Nazis just because it ruins your equating of Americastan with Nazi Germany.

 

[Bunyip]

It's not so bad for non-criminals. But I think it's far too high also.

The millions of incinerated (& buried) prisoners would disagree....if they could.
Alas, you cannot just remove the "final solution" from the moral balance sheet of the Nazis just because it ruins your equating of Americastan with Nazi Germany.

I'm not proposing such a moral balance, just pointing out that the US has a higher incarceration rate than NAZI Germany because I think it is significant. I am not equating NAZI Germany with the US - I am just saying that both have been equally brutal in the past, and so what may have happened had the war gone differently or not happened at all is hard to predict. I'm not 'removing the final solution from the balance sheet' by the way.

Remember that NAZI Germany was a long time ago - the astonishing rate of imprisonment in the US is current, not historical. Germany today has a tiny fraction of it population in prison by comparison.

 

[psychoslice]

If my country becomes Muslim, I think I would kill myself, life wouldn't be worth living like that.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not proposing such a moral balance, just pointing out that the US has a higher incarceration rate than NAZI Germany because I think it is significant. I am not equating NAZI Germany with the US - I am just saying that both have been equally brutal in the past, and so what may have happened had the war gone differently or not happened at all is hard to predict. I'm not 'removing the final solution from the balance sheet' by the way.

The underlined portion of text still points towards your morally equating Americastan with Nazi Germany. I disagree, & find the Nazis to have been worse. Moreover, I wager that they'd have continued to be worse had they won the war.

Btw, if you ever visit here, I'd recommend against airing any of these views. I'm amused & bemused, but some people....well....they're less tolerant.

 

[Bunyip]

The underlined portion of text still points towards your morally equating Americastan with Nazi Germany. I disagree, & find the Nazis to have been worse. Moreover, I wager that they'd have continued to be worse had they won the war.

Btw, if you ever visit here, I'd recommend against airing any of these views. I'm amused & bemused, but some people....well....they're less tolerant.

Same goes if you ever visit Germany I guess, do you think the Germans would be more or less tolerant of such views?

Perhaps ask the Filipinos?

 

[Father Heathen]

Sorry, but that is not what it looks like from outside of the US. I would point out that Germany under the NAZI never imprisoned the proportion of the population even during wartime that the US has in it's prisons in peacetime. I am not judging who is better or worse, just saying that it is not as clear as it looks from inside the US.

As I suggested earlier - ask the Filipinos, the US led dictatorship and occupation was as brutal and violent as any in history.

You presume to speak for the entire world? Really? Also, do you honestly think that the U.S. has committed anything comparable in scope and scale to the holocaust?

I suspect that this condemnation of the U.S. has more to do with what kids these days refer to as "butthurt" rather than with any objective examination of history.