What is a soul/spirit?

[URAVIP2ME]

I am not sure we can hold God to the exact year or day of an allotted time when it comes to human life. It would seem there is 'overlap' either way. For one thing we don't even know the year Jesus was born nor the exact day of his return.
And now man is given a period of 3 score years and 10 but how many live well over , myself included . :run:

Congratulations on your long life.

Psalm 90 v10 mentions our days as 70 or 80 years if we have special mightiness. So that can be in round numbers meaning as an average.
After all, we were originally all meant to live forever.

Jesus according to Revelation 21 vs3,4 shows the tent [protection] of God is with humans or mankind. For mankind God will not only wipe away tears and pain but also death will be no more. In order for death to be no more there would have to be no sickness. That is why Isaiah foretold about the future time when no resident would ever say, "I am sick"- Isa 33v24; and Paul wrote that our 'last enemy death' will be brought to nothing. -1st Cor 15v26. When something is brought to nothing it does not exist anymore, or as Isaiah [25v8] says death will be swallowed up forever.

You have the prospect placed ahead of you that you could be alive on earth at the time of Jesus 'glory' [Matt 16v27; 25vs31,21] and remain alive right into the start of Jesus peaceful millennial reign over earth with everlasting life in view.
Please notice Job [33vs24-28] because Job says one's flesh will then be fresher than a child's.....

 

[Jarry]

It has always seemed clear to me that there is no scientific validation for any concept of a soul and spirit. There is such a thing as mind, and mind can be overcome and seen for what it is. But because the soul is merely a concept that the Abrahamic traditions use to forcefully control it's members in a more direct fashion, we are raised to believe that there is something more to our being than just a flesh body and a brain.

However, if I were to delve into the notion of the existence of a soul or spirit, I would view it as the part of all of us that needs to be happy and fulfilled in some way.

 

[Cosmos]

It has always seemed clear to me that there is no scientific validation for any concept of a soul and spirit. There is such a thing as mind, and mind can be overcome and seen for what it is. But because the soul is merely a concept that the Abrahamic traditions use to forcefully control it's members in a more direct fashion, we are raised to believe that there is something more to our being than just a flesh body and a brain.

However, if I were to delve into the notion of the existence of a soul or spirit, I would view it as the part of all of us that needs to be happy and fulfilled in some way.

The Buddha states in the Dhammapada, verses 379-380:

"Rouse yourself by your Self, examine yourself by your Self. Thus guarded by your Self and attentive, you, mendicant, will live happy. For Self is the lord of self; Self is the refuge of self; therefore curb yourself as a merchant curbs a fine horse."

As you are Buddhist I am most surprised to hear this... since at the moment I am studying some Suttas and what not... and the Buddha explicitly states belief and acknowledges the existence of the Soul (Self).

 

[Beta]

Congratulations on your long life.

Psalm 90 v10 mentions our days as 70 or 80 years if we have special mightiness. So that can be in round numbers meaning as an average.
After all, we were originally all meant to live forever.

Jesus according to Revelation 21 vs3,4 shows the tent [protection] of God is with humans or mankind. For mankind God will not only wipe away tears and pain but also death will be no more. In order for death to be no more there would have to be no sickness. That is why Isaiah foretold about the future time when no resident would ever say, "I am sick"- Isa 33v24; and Paul wrote that our 'last enemy death' will be brought to nothing. -1st Cor 15v26. When something is brought to nothing it does not exist anymore, or as Isaiah [25v8] says death will be swallowed up forever.

You have the prospect placed ahead of you that you could be alive on earth at the time of Jesus 'glory' [Matt 16v27; 25vs31,21] and remain alive right into the start of Jesus peaceful millennial reign over earth with everlasting life in view.
Please notice Job [33vs24-28] because Job says one's flesh will then be fresher than a child's.....

Thanks for the congratulations friend , but i am sure you did not include the pain and suffering that has been part of this long life.
I for one can hardly wait for the return of Christ and the relief mankind is promised.
But I think we see our redemption slightly different. You give the impression of a new human/physical existence for all eternity , but my understanding of our salvation is that of a spiritual nature.
But of course I'm not saying there won't be a glorious change in human life for all believers so I'm sure we can expect benefits for all mankind physically and mentally. :yes:

 

[Vietta]

The soul is the mental realization of self in every human being. The reason I think everyone has a unique soul is because no one person can be exactly identical to any other person, not even twins. No one can experience the same things or feel the exact same way about things. the soul is special because it symbolizes the entirety of your life and how you handled everything you came into contact with, good or bad.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes, everyone has a unique soul or life. Adam was a living breathing soul [Gen 2v7]
Adam was unique and his soul [life] was special, and Adam showed how he handled what he came into contact with, good and bad. The badness caused Adam's soul to die or as Ezekiel 18vs4,20 says the soul that sins dies. At death Adam became a dead soul.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Thanks for the congratulations friend , but i am sure you did not include the pain and suffering that has been part of this long life.
I for one can hardly wait for the return of Christ and the relief mankind is promised.
But I think we see our redemption slightly different. You give the impression of a new human/physical existence for all eternity , but my understanding of our salvation is that of a spiritual nature.
But of course I'm not saying there won't be a glorious change in human life for all believers so I'm sure we can expect benefits for all mankind physically and mentally. :yes:

Ditto! We should all long for the relief mankind is promised by Jesus that all things will be made new. [Rev 21v5] -[Micah 4vs3,4]

Although Adam was human/physical, Adam could have developed a spiritual side or nature and still retain his perfectly healthy human perfection of mind and body with everlasting life in view. Adam could have carried out Gen. [1v28] in making the earthly globe into a beautiful blooming world-wide paradisaic Garden of Eden.

The promise to Abraham was Not heavenly but earthly. [Gen 12v3; 22vs17,18] Jesus will fulfill not just a heavenly promise [Rev 5vs9,10], but also the earthly promise to Abraham that all families of the earth will be blessed and all nations of the earth will be blessed.-Rev 22v2.

The foundation of that new earth or righteous earthly society, will start with the living sheep-like ones on earth of Matthew 25 with the prospect of them having everlasting life in view without ever having to experience death.
They come out of great tribulation alive. -Rev 7v14.

 

[Vietta]

Yes, everyone has a unique soul or life. Adam was a living breathing soul [Gen 2v7]
Adam was unique and his soul [life] was special, and Adam showed how he handled what he came into contact with, good and bad. The badness caused Adam's soul to die or as Ezekiel 18vs4,20 says the soul that sins dies. At death Adam became a dead soul.

So you're saying that anyone who sins has no soul?

 

[LuisDantas]

As you are Buddhist I am most surprised to hear this... since at the moment I am studying some Suttas and what not... and the Buddha explicitly states belief and acknowledges the existence of the Soul (Self).

Quite the opposite, really. The Buddha specifically denied the existence of what Hindus call "Atman". There is a Self, obviously, but it should not be understood as something with true substance, for it is only a set of mental aggregates.

We obviously do have a sense of self. But it is ilusory and should be reigned in, then dissolved.

 

[Etritonakin]

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

not everyone will live to 120 -but no one will live to 130 unless God changes that decree.-and certainly not as long as before this decree. It is not ours to hold God to that.

From what I can gather, only two persons have been verified to live more than exactly 120 years.

Oldest people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So you're saying that anyone who sins has no soul?

Quite the opposite. At what point did Adam become a living soul?
Genesis 2v7 says after God breathed the breath of live into lifeless Adam at that point Adam became a living soul.
Please notice Adam did not possess a soul, or come to have a soul, rather Adam was a soul.

Once Adam sinned he lost his right to eternal life.
At death Adam became the opposite of being a living soul.
Adam became a dead soul.

Dead sinners have no life.
Dead sinners have dead souls.
The dead do not think but sleep the deep sleep of death until resurrection morning. Awaken from death's sleep during Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth to once again enjoy life as a living soul.


Acts 24v15; Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4; Ecc. 9v5; Daniel 12vs2,13.

 

[Cosmos]

Quite the opposite, really. The Buddha specifically denied the existence of what Hindus call "Atman". There is a Self, obviously, but it should not be understood as something with true substance, for it is only a set of mental aggregates.

We obviously do have a sense of self. But it is illusory and should be reigned in, then dissolved.

My friend, you stand corrected from the very verse posted above. Either the Buddha was wrong or just plain confused about the "Self" HE spoke about! In any case, you should peruse the Dharmic threads where I have been posting in-depth comments relating to what the Buddha actually described as the true Self, which is Vijnana (quality of Citta or Mind). What He actually said in His teachings was that the atman (lower case 'self') as understood by the Brahmans of that era was in error, as the divines and people conceived of our highest inner reality as associated with anthropormorphic and corporeal attributes. What He did emphasize was the reality of the Mind-Soul.

Another thing atheistic Buddhists who are not correctly understanding their own religion rolleyes:yes a religion) is that He also said He [the Buddha] is the "Way to Brahmayana" or why He positively spoke of Brahma-carin ("Brahma-faring") as HIS path! Or why He said thus:

"Verily I say unto thee: 'The Blessed One has not come to teach death, but to teach life, and thou discernest not the nature of living and dying."

To be fair, He also said:

"There is rebirth of character,
but no transmigration of a self.
Thy thought-forms reappear,
but there is no egoentity transferred.
The stanza uttered by a teacher
is reborn in the scholar who repeats the words.

"Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream
that their souls are separate and self-existent entities."

The real point is why would the Buddha affirm, then negate? Simple. It is the philosophical method of 'Netti Netti'--where we derive Anatta (non-self)/Anicca (impermenance)--or negation TO AFFIRM something! So, when we read "That is not my self"--first note that denial of the soul is not implied--but aspects of 'self' or the illusory sense of "I". What the Buddha did was to expand Hindu concepts and langauge by augmenting conceptuals to newer heights of understanding--therefore Vijnana is the Mind-Soul, as well as many other descriptions of the Mind that reflects our spiritual nature, such as Amoha, Ananuvejjo, Anusuttam, Anuttara, and many others that describe the purest aspects of ourselves.:angel2:

 

[Etritonakin]

Quite the opposite. At what point did Adam become a living soul?
Genesis 2v7 says after God breathed the breath of live into lifeless Adam at that point Adam became a living soul.
Please notice Adam did not possess a soul, or come to have a soul, rather Adam was a soul.

Once Adam sinned he lost his right to eternal life.
At death Adam became the opposite of being a living soul.
Adam became a dead soul.

Dead sinners have no life.
Dead sinners have dead souls.
The dead do not think but sleep the deep sleep of death until resurrection morning. Awaken from death's sleep during Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth to once again enjoy life as a living soul.


Acts 24v15; Psalm 6v5; 13v3; 115v17; 146v4; Ecc. 9v5; Daniel 12vs2,13.

While we ARE a soul -we are given a spirit -though it -of itself -is not eternal..... it returns to God after we die -he essentially saves it -and is unaware of the passage of time -until resurrected again.

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the (spirit): but rather fear him which is able to destroy both (spirit) and body in (gehenna).

Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

"....and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished....."

 

[LuisDantas]

My friend, you stand corrected from the very verse posted above.

Sorry, but I simply don't see how.

Either the Buddha was wrong or just plain confused about the "Self" HE spoke about! In any case, you should peruse the Dharmic threads where I have been posting in-depth comments relating to what the Buddha actually described as the true Self, which is Vijnana (quality of Citta or Mind). What He actually said in His teachings was that the atman (lower case 'self') as understood by the Brahmans of that era was in error, as the divines and people conceived of our highest inner reality as associated with anthropormorphic and corporeal attributes. What He did emphasize was the reality of the Mind-Soul.

Did he? Where?

Another thing atheistic Buddhists who are not correctly understanding their own religion rolleyes:yes a religion)

Why, of course it is a religion. It does not at all follow that it must involve belief in Souls or in Gods. For one thing, because both concepts are vague to the point of barely having any meaning at all.

Still, it remains to be proven that I'm not correctly understanding this particular point of my religion.

(Did you expect me to claim that "it is a philosophy, not a religion"? I never liked that kind of wordplay, myself. It isn't very meaningful, nor quite honest.)

In fact, I wonder how you can have so much certainty about what exactly I believe or not. Just because I'm an atheist? It doesn't really mean anything except that I don't believe in God - which is one of the most minor things that I can conceive of. It is far less meaningful than, say, whether I oppose the death penalty or whatever I happen to think about adoption criteria.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

While we ARE a soul -we are given a spirit -though it -of itself -is not eternal..... it returns to God after we die -he essentially saves it -and is unaware of the passage of time -until resurrected again.
Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.
Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the (spirit): but rather fear him which is able to destroy both (spirit) and body in (gehenna).
Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
"....and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished....."

Those of 1st Thess are Jesus 'brothers' of Matthew 25v40; 1st Cor 15v50.
Jesus 'brothers' rule with him in the heavens [Rev 5vs9,1] over earthly subjects during Jesus peaceful 1000-year reign over earth starting with the living sheep-like ones of Matthew 25vs31,32.

Those alive on earth at the end of Jesus millennial reign will live in healthy human perfection of mind and body that Adam originally had at creation.
That will include the sheep of Matt 25 and the humble meek that are resurrected to inherit not heaven but earth. - Psalm 37vs11,29.
Jesus fulfills the promise to Abraham that all families and nations of the 'earth' will be blessed.- Gen 12v3; 22vs17,18; Rev 22v2

 

[logician]

It would be quite scary to think there was a separate essence from the physical body. I simply don't believe such a thing is logical or possible.

 

[LuisDantas]

It would be quite scary to think there was a separate essence from the physical body. I simply don't believe such a thing is logical or possible.

Indeed. If anything, all evidence points against such an idea. From Phineas Gage's story to the very clear effect that body states such as alcoholic intoxication or hunger have upon our behavior, it would seem that even rather subtle and temporary bodily changes are enough to make us different people entirely.

I've often wondered what reincarnation would imply, for instance. Supposedly reincarnated people don't have the memories, skills, languages or even aptitudes or appearances of their supposed previous lifes. It really looks like that all that is left is the sheer desire to believe that it is so.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

It would be quite scary to think there was a separate essence from the physical body. I simply don't believe such a thing is logical or possible.

Adam was from dust and Adam returned to dust.

Adam could logically stay on earth if obedient to God.

There wasn't a separate part or essence from his physical human form.

At death Adam no longer had either the breath of life or the spirit of life.
At death Adam became a dead soul. The soul [person] that sins dies.
-Ezekiel 18vs4,20

 

[Beta]

It would be quite scary to think there was a separate essence from the physical body. I simply don't believe such a thing is logical or possible.

What makes you think that a separate essence from the body is scary ? The Bible says there is a spirit in man through which / by which we get understanding from God.Job 32v8. And when we die that spirit returns to God who gave it Eccl.12v7. Yes, God is fully aware of all our doings.
We have nothing to fear if we do good according to God's requirements.

 

[Etritonakin]

It would be quite scary to think there was a separate essence from the physical body. I simply don't believe such a thing is logical or possible.

Why would it be any different than your "self" being separate from someone else's "self"?
It's a bit gruesome to think about, but our "self" can exist without most of our physical body, anyway.
It's not that the spirit isn't "REAL" -it's just not inseparable from the body.
It's quite like DNA -which isn't alive itself, but under the right circumstances produces a certain life form -even a specific, unique, physical body -whereas a spirit is the "essence" of an individual's personality and character.

All that makes you computer work are a bunch of identical electrons -but it's the CODE that matters!

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Consult your administrator!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!