What is energy?

[godnotgod]

They didn't. Anyone can sound profound after a few hallucinogens.

The Buddha was on drugs?

Fact is, what they reported was pretty consistent from one mystic to the next, in spite of the fact that they reached their conclusions independently of one another all around the world, and at different times in history.

To the uninitiated, what they said may appear as being 'profound', but to themselves, their experience is quite ordinary, and that's because they're simply seeing Reality as it actually is: Ordinary Reality.

Today, the Quantum world is looking pretty phenomenal when contrasted with that of ordinary physics, but that's because we've been seeing it through the eyes of conditioned mind.

'Before Enlightenment, it is Something Special;
after Enlightenment, it is Nothing Special'
Buddhist aphorism

 

[godnotgod]

No, it was never intended as an ontological statement, sunyata is framed in terms of the 5 aggregates of human experience.

Sunyata was not (officially) part of the teaching of the 5 aggregates. It was a Mahayana teaching:

As recorded in the Anatta-lakkhana Sutta of the Pali Tipitaka (Samyutta Nikaya 22:59), the Buddha taught that these five "parts," including our consciousness, are not "self." They are impermanent, and clinging to them as if they were the permanent "me" gives rise to greed and hate, and to the craving that is the source of suffering (see the Four Noble Truths).

The teaching in the Anatta-lakkhana Sutta is called "anatta," sometimes translated "no self" or "not self." This basic teaching is accepted in all schools of Buddhism, including Theravada. Anatta is a refutation of the Hindu belief in atman -- a soul; an immortal essence of self.

But Mahayana Buddhism goes further than Theravada, and teaches that all phenomena are without self-essence. This is sunyata.

Sunyata is often misunderstood to mean that nothing exists. This is not so. Instead, it tells us that there is existence, but that phenomena are empty of svabhava, a Sanskrit word that means self-nature, intrinsic nature, essence, or "own being."

Although we may not be conscious of it, we tend to think of things as having some essential nature that makes it what it is. So, we look at an assemblage of metal and plastic and call it a "toaster." But "toaster" is just an identity we project onto a phenomenon. There is no inherent toaster essence inhabiting the metal and plastic.

Sunyata - The Perfection of Wisdom in Buddhism

A chariot is used as a metaphor for emptiness to include all things beyond just man.

Once again, the fact that anatta means 'no-self' can only point to a universal consciousness. Do you understand how this is so?

 

[Rick O'Shez]

But Mahayana Buddhism goes further than Theravada, and teaches that all phenomena are without self-essence. This is sunyata.

Read the first 4 lines of the Heart Sutra here and you will see that sunyata is applied to the 5 aggregates. In Buddhism the 5 aggregates represent the totality of human experience, that's the scope of both anatta and sunyata.
Buddhist Scriptures: Heart Sutra

In any case sunyata is a teaching about conditionality in our everyday world of human experience, not about the world of quantum mechanics.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Once again, the fact that anatta means 'no-self' can only point to a universal consciousness. Do you understand how this is so?

Do explain.

 

[`mud]

Circle around the true meaning of the intrinsinc value of what energy means.
One can double talk in Hindu, Islam, Yiddish, Christofan, or whatever.
The fact that 'energy' is the bath we all swim in, or float on.
Whether one believes in Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, or God Himself,
'energy' in all it's forms is the basis of reality.
It's the gnosis of existance, and the rationality of life itself.
With or without post death cognition, energy will still be there.
~
Pass the olives please.
~
'mud

 

[Nada]

Circle around the true meaning of the intrinsinc value of what energy means.
One can double talk in Hindu, Islam, Yiddish, Christofan, or whatever.
The fact that 'energy' is the bath we all swim in, or float on.
Whether one believes in Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, or God Himself,
'energy' in all it's forms is the basis of reality.
It's the gnosis of existance, and the rationality of life itself.
With or without post death cognition, energy will still be there.
~
Pass the olives please.
~
'mud

I only have olives with my martini's and potato salad.

 

[Thief]

I only have olives with my martini's and potato salad.

How is this realistic?

hehehehe

 

[godnotgod]

Read the first 4 lines of the Heart Sutra here and you will see that sunyata is applied to the 5 aggregates. In Buddhism the 5 aggregates represent the totality of human experience, that's the scope of both anatta and sunyata.
Buddhist Scriptures: Heart Sutra

In any case sunyata is a teaching about conditionality in our everyday world of human experience, not about the world of quantum mechanics.

"Chariot" is a designation we give to a phenomenon; there is no inherent "chariot nature" dwelling in the chariot. This metaphor applies equally to the fact that there is no inherent 'self' or atman in man.

We live in the Quantum world. There is only one Reality, not two. But because of mental conditioning, we think: 'this world, that world', when no such condition actually exists.

 

[godnotgod]

Do explain.

From your own source:

"Since mind is neither form nor name, in the context of BuddhaDharma it is expediently termed "Emptiness" or "Void" (Sunyata in Sanskrit).

On that particular day, represented for us by the eighth of December, while he was absorbed in deep samadhi, the Buddha attained complete enlightenment. Noticing the bright morning star in the eastern sky, he observed that the nature of seeing can be a kind of connecting: He realized his own nature of seeing is boundless, and his first statement following his enlightenment was: "Wonderful, wonderful! All sentient beings have the same wisdom and virtue as the Tathagata*, but because of the obstacle of illusion and grasping they cannot attain."

*Tathāgata (Devanagari: तथागत, Sanskrit: [t̪əˈt̪ʰɑːɡət̪ə]) is a Pali and Sanskrit word the Buddha of the Pali Canon uses when referring to himself. The term is often thought to mean either "one who has thus gone" (tathā-gata) or "one who has thus come" (tathā-āgata).

If humans have no independent self-nature, then their true nature can only be universal.

The same is true of all phenomena, which are based upon the atomic and sub-atomic.

This is illustrated in the Buddha's discourse on 'The Law of Interdependent Origination'.

To make distinctions between 'human experience' and the phenomenal world is to continue to dwell in duality. The experience of Enlightenment is the merging of subject and object (also discussed in the source you provided). There is no separate world of 'quantum mechanics' apart from the world we experience. This ordinary, everyday world is none other than the Quantum world.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

To make distinctions between 'human experience' and the phenomenal world is to continue to dwell in duality. The experience of Enlightenment is the merging of subject and object (also discussed in the source you provided). There is no separate world of 'quantum mechanics' apart from the world we experience. This ordinary, everyday world is none other than the Quantum world.

The phenomenal world is the world of human experience, by definition, there is no distinction. But humans don't experience the sub-atomic world and our world operates according to Newtonian mechanics, not quantum mechanics. Remember that sunyata deals with conditionality in the phenomenal world of human experience, it's not an ontological teaching.

As usual you seem to be misrepresenting Buddhist teachings and quantum mechanics in an attempt to bolster your theory, and we just end up with a new-age style muddle.

Why don't you just state clearly and succinctly what your theory is?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The phenomenal world is the world of human experience, by definition, there is no distinction. But humans don't experience the sub-atomic world and our world operates according to Newtonian mechanics, not quantum mechanics. .

Not so...inertia is a result of virtual zpe particles of opposite electric charge (eg., virtual positrons clouding around the electrons) of the atoms in our body.....when we go to move,,,this electric charge attraction force has to be overcome...it doesn't matter if it on earth or in space..the source of inertia comes from the omnipresent zpe/quantum vacuum of omnipresent space...

Also there is a theory by scientists Dr Stuart Hameroff and Dr Roger Penrose wrt Quantum Vacuum/ZPE interacting on the neuron axons of the brain to provide some form of cosmic input to functioning of the brain..

These are early days wrt the science of Quantum Vacuum/ZPE,.Higg's, Field/Dark Energy....we shall see.....

 

[godnotgod]

The phenomenal world is the world of human experience, by definition, there is no distinction. But humans don't experience the sub-atomic world and our world operates according to Newtonian mechanics, not quantum mechanics.

And that's the point: that this virtual reality we live in is the facade that the Quantum world projects as being real. That is exactly what is occurring on the sub-atomic level: all mass is now understood as being virtual, created by fluctuations in the Quantum field. Mystics have pierced this facade and have come to understand that virtual reality as illusory because they have awakened from the dream on the Third Level Of Consciousness, that of Identification, or Waking Sleep, which is the level you continue to point to as being that of ordinary human experience. The problem is that life on this level is that of the unawakened mind, where suffering is inevitable. This is why the Buddha embarked upon his quest to seek a higher state of awareness.

Remember that sunyata deals with conditionality in the phenomenal world of human experience...

No. It includes all phenomena:

"All existences (ie; phenomena) exhibit void-nature and nirvana-nature. These natures are the reality of all existence. To realise the truth, we have to contemplate and observe our worldly existence. We cannot realise the former without observing the latter. Consider this Heart Sutra extract, "Only when Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva practised the deep course of wisdom of Prajna Paramita did he come to realise that the five skandhas (aggregates, and material and mental objects) were void."

Profound wisdom leads us to the realisation that all existences are of void-nature. The sutras demonstrate that the profound principle can be understood by contemplating and observing the five skandhas. We cannot realise the truth by seeking something beyond the material and mental world. The Buddha, using his perfect wisdom, observed worldly existence from various implications and aspects, and came to understand all existences."

Sunyata (Emptiness) in the Mahayana Context

Why don't you just state clearly and succinctly what your theory is?[/QUOTE]

I already have: The virtual nature of the 'physical' world according to Quantum physics is exactly the same as Sunyata: nothing, neither man nor phenomena, has an inherent nature.

I'll state it another way:

'Everything comes out of Nothing'

There are not two worlds which emerge: that we see two is only due to mental conditioning. The reality is that there is a transformation from the awakened mind to the conditioned mind, and then back again, so we see 'two' realities. But the world of the conditioned mind is not real. Only that of the awakened mind is real. It's the same with dream-sleep. We envision the dream world and the waking world, but it is the awakening which shows us the illusory nature of the dream world. When we awaken to an even higher level, we see this virtual world as illusory as well.

 

[godnotgod]

Alan Watts talks about Sunyata:

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Not so...inertia is a result of virtual zpe particles of opposite electric charge (eg., virtual positrons clouding around the electrons) of the atoms in our body.....when we go to move,,,this electric charge attraction force has to be overcome...it doesn't matter if it on earth or in space..the source of inertia comes from the omnipresent zpe/quantum vacuum of omnipresent space...

Yes so. Our everyday world operates according to Newtonian mechanics, not quantum mechanics. It's the sub-atomic world which operates according to quantum mechanics.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

No. It includes all phenomena:

I suggest you read the source material, the Heart Sutra in this case. Sunyata is framed in terms of the 5 aggregates, the phenomena we experience as humans in the everyday world. It's not an ontological teaching and it's not a analysis of the sub-atomic world, which is beyond our everyday human experience.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes so. Our everyday world operates according to Newtonian mechanics, not quantum mechanics. It's the sub-atomic world which operates according to quantum mechanics.

But inertia is a part of our every day life...when you are standing when the train starts off....the top of the body wants to be left behind and you have to hang on, otherwise you will fall over...that is inertia...the actual cause of inertia is a result of quantum sub atomic causes as I explained...

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I already have: The virtual nature of the 'physical' world according to Quantum physics is exactly the same as Sunyata: nothing, neither man nor phenomena, has an inherent nature.

So have you given up on cosmic consciousness?

 

[`mud]

Inertia,
a result of effect,
that's a result of cause,
that causes momentum,
and results in inertia.
In infinite phase to nothingness.
I really love the circularity,
and GNG says it comes from nothingness,
Ahhhhh....the mystery of the void !
~
'mud

 

[atanu]

Do you know anything about neurotransmitters and how they work.

That is a wonder.

 

[godnotgod]

Yes so. Our everyday world operates according to Newtonian mechanics, not quantum mechanics. It's the sub-atomic world which operates according to quantum mechanics.

....and it's the sub-atomic world upon which the everyday world is built....like totally. And because the sub-atomic world is now known to be 100% VIRTUAL, the 'everyday' world we assume to be real is also 100% virtual. That is precisely what the mystics realized. The HIndus called it 'maya', and the Buddhists call it Sunyata. The problem is that Newtonian physics can no longer explain the everyday world because of what Quantum physics is revealing. To claim that the everyday world operates according to Newtonian mechanics is actually not true; it never was. It's just a conditioned paradigm we as humans thought was the case. It 'worked' for awhile, but that apple cart I am afraid has now been completely overturned. IOW, the Quantum world has been creating a virtual reality that is actually an illusion all along right under our noses. It has been the mystics throughout history who have come to some point in their experience at which they sensed something wasn't quite right with the 'everyday' world, and that something has been our mental conditioning which dictates how we see the world. That vision is incorrect. Zen and other methods essentially transform such a conditioned view into an unconditioned view, by which what was previously thought to be the case is, in reality, not the case.

You are still in the realm of dualism; you think 'this world' and 'that world' when no such divisions exist. There is only one world; one Reality, and this is it. All that is required is to awaken to the fact. It's all here, right now, staring at us in the face, but we fail to see things as they actually are partly because of our mental conditioning and partly because this ordinary world is putting on a poker face that the unawakened mind simply doesn't see. IOW, the facade we mistake as 'reality' is of a much higher order than the ordinary mind can understand, and yet, it is all here, right in front of us all the time. Everyone holds the key to unlocking this mystery but we go on in denial that we ourselves are THAT Reality in order to continue playing this compelling game of Hide and Seek with our true natures.

It's quite a wonderful show, exquisitely fashioned, albeit a Big Act. Only a few will pierce the facade.