What is Evidence?

[Jimmy]

I understand as stated before a subjective religious argument like reincarnation, or maybe a Messianic expectation, without any evidence

As far as any remote relationship to a discussion on evidence. No I do not understand it,

Then why are you asking questions?

 

[Jimmy]

I understand that you're consistently ducking the question about where his mother (necessary for the reborn element) is after our hero dies.

Well, if you can’t understand, I cant help you

 

[shunyadragon]

Then why are you asking questions?

. . . because your vague nebulous posts lack explanation and relevance to the thread topic.

 

[shunyadragon]

Well, if you can’t understand, I cant help you

You need to halp yourself with more coherent relevant responses.

 

[firedragon]

Do you get to decide for yourself what is evidence and what conclusion that evidence supports?

Or is there a standard that something must surpass to be considered evidence and a methodology to showing how the evidence necessarily supports the conclusion being claimed by it.

For example, is the Bible evidence of the existence of God?
Is the Bible evidence because I say it is evidence? Or is the Bible evidence because surpasses a standard of evidence necessary to be considered evidence.

And, if we except the latter, is it evidence of God's existence because I say it is or because I have methodically show that it necessarily leads to that conclusion?

Bonus question: If you think there is a standard that must be surpassed for something to be considered evidence, what is it and does the Bible meet that?

Nakosis. Have you read the Bible?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Nakosis. Have you read the Bible?

What is the point of that question?

 

[soulsurvivor]

The reference was published in a scientific journal as referred. It is relatively easy for porous weathered would and ceramic to absorb liquids. and very easy to drill a deep hole to increase the effect.

The problem remains it is a supernatural claim not based on objective evidence for something that i really easy to reproduce. This claim lacks any significance as to what a supernatural event would be, and similar claims are far to common in various religions in recent history.

When I stain old wood decks the problem of old porous wood to absorb liquids is very apparent, Old ceramic materials have the dame problem.

Again, again and again . . . videos and photos are NOT accepted as evidence for obvious reasons as previously described,

It is not published anywhere. What is the name of the Journal? He happened to work at some institute and he has put the name of that institute in the article.

Instead of continuing to talk and make claims, why don't you actually attempt to reproduce the phenomenon which apparently is 'very easy';. Videos may not be accepted as evidence, but i will accept them from you. At least it would demonstrate that you tried to prove what you verbally claim.

The object you can experiment with can be made of metal, wood, stone, marble, plaster - whatever you like. You can use any material as porous as you want, just like your deck. Act like a true scientist instead of just talking or desperately searching for other people saying similar stuff that supports your unsubstantiated hypothesis.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

One depiction Jesus gave was clearly an illustration, not like a photograph or should I say recording of actual persons in heaven or being "hot down below..." but actually an illustration of his teachings and those of the ones persecuting him and how they would "change places" in the future.

That is certainly one interpretation of the biblical accounts of heaven and hell. However, I understand that you, as a JW, do not subscribe to the belief in eternal condemnation in a literal hell, which other Christians definitely believe in. Out of curiosity, do you believe that the Rich Man and Lazarus parable was a story that Jesus made up to teach a lesson, or do you think it was based on an actual event that he either witnessed or knew of? The parable states that the rich man cried out to Abraham, pleaded with him, and said, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ He was clearly aware of his torment in Hades ("because I am in agony in this fire"); he recognized both Lazarus and Abraham from a distance, and he fervently pleaded with Abraham to help him. What do you think about this parable? Is it just a story?

I think that this is an intriguing parable because, according to Ecclesiastes 9:5, the dead know nothing. Therefore, since this verse implies that the dead know nothing, my questions about Jesus' parable are as follows: Why did he teach a parable about a dead man who not only recognized two other men from afar but also was conscious of his torment in a fire? If the dead know nothing, then how was this rich man even aware of his torment in Hades? How could he have recognized both Abraham and Lazarus from afar? Lastly, how could he have pleaded with Abraham and had Abraham reply back to him?

Furthermore, Ecclesiastes 9:5 states that there is no final reward for the dead and that even their names are forgotten. However, this seems to contradict other verses, such as these here, which suggest final rewards in heaven, the writing of people's names in a "Book of Life" that God allegedly possesses (see the verses here), and their names being recorded in heaven (Luke 10:20). Finally, thank you for answering my questions in accordance with your beliefs.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is certainly one interpretation of the biblical accounts of heaven and hell. However, I understand that you, as a JW, do not subscribe to the belief in eternal condemnation in a literal hell, which other Christians definitely believe in. Out of curiosity, do you believe that the Rich Man and Lazarus parable was a story that Jesus made up to teach a lesson, or do you think it was based on an actual event that he either witnessed or knew of? The parable states that the rich man cried out to Abraham, pleaded with him, and said, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ He was clearly aware of his torment in Hades ("because I am in agony in this fire"); he recognized both Lazarus and Abraham from a distance, and he fervently pleaded with Abraham to help him. What do you think about this parable? Is it just a story?

I think that this is an intriguing parable because, according to Ecclesiastes 9:5, the dead know nothing. Therefore, since this verse implies that the dead know nothing, my questions about Jesus' parable are as follows: Why did he teach a parable about a dead man who not only recognized two other men from afar but also was conscious of his torment in a fire? If the dead know nothing, then how was this rich man even aware of his torment in Hades? How could he have recognized both Abraham and Lazarus from afar? Lastly, how could he have pleaded with Abraham and had Abraham reply back to him?

Furthermore, Ecclesiastes 9:5 states that there is no final reward for the dead and that even their names are forgotten. However, this seems to contradict other verses, such as these here, which suggest final rewards in heaven, the writing of people's names in a "Book of Life" that God allegedly possesses (see the verses here), and their names being recorded in heaven (Luke 10:20). Finally, thank you for answering my questions in accordance with your beliefs.

Sorry, but right at the beginning I can see a difference in what you say I believe and what I really do believe. There is eternal condemnation for those who warrant it after the thousand year reign and there is that judgment. However, the ones that merit eternal condemnation will not suffer personally, they will simply be dead. Not functioning. Not feeling anything. That's how I understand it.

 

[YoursTrue]

That is certainly one interpretation of the biblical accounts of heaven and hell. However, I understand that you, as a JW, do not subscribe to the belief in eternal condemnation in a literal hell, which other Christians definitely believe in. Out of curiosity, do you believe that the Rich Man and Lazarus parable was a story that Jesus made up to teach a lesson, or do you think it was based on an actual event that he either witnessed or knew of? The parable states that the rich man cried out to Abraham, pleaded with him, and said, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’ He was clearly aware of his torment in Hades ("because I am in agony in this fire"); he recognized both Lazarus and Abraham from a distance, and he fervently pleaded with Abraham to help him. What do you think about this parable? Is it just a story?

I think that this is an intriguing parable because, according to Ecclesiastes 9:5, the dead know nothing. Therefore, since this verse implies that the dead know nothing, my questions about Jesus' parable are as follows: Why did he teach a parable about a dead man who not only recognized two other men from afar but also was conscious of his torment in a fire? If the dead know nothing, then how was this rich man even aware of his torment in Hades? How could he have recognized both Abraham and Lazarus from afar? Lastly, how could he have pleaded with Abraham and had Abraham reply back to him?

Furthermore, Ecclesiastes 9:5 states that there is no final reward for the dead and that even their names are forgotten. However, this seems to contradict other verses, such as these here, which suggest final rewards in heaven, the writing of people's names in a "Book of Life" that God allegedly possesses (see the verses here), and their names being recorded in heaven (Luke 10:20). Finally, thank you for answering my questions in accordance with your beliefs.

The parable was a condemnation of the Jewish religious leaders at the time. Remember how one person healed by Jesus was thrown out by the religious leaders because he was unlearned insofar as they were concerned? The situation would be changed in the future from that -- I.e., that the poor or uneducated would be taught, blessed, and helped to understand.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Sorry, but right at the beginning I can see a difference in what you say I believe and what I really do believe. There is eternal condemnation for those who warrant it after the thousand year reign and there is that judgment. However, the ones that merit eternal condemnation will not suffer personally, they will simply be dead. Not functioning. Not feeling anything. That's how I understand it.

Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate it. I reviewed my old evangelism notes on JW beliefs and realized that I was mistaken.

The parable was a condemnation of the Jewish religious leaders at the time. Remember how one person healed by Jesus was thrown out by the religious leaders because he was unlearned insofar as they were concerned? The situation would be changed in the future from that -- I.e., that the poor or uneducated would be taught, blessed, and helped to understand.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on my post. Again, I appreciate it.

 

[YoursTrue]

Thank you for the clarification. I appreciate it. I reviewed my old evangelism notes on JW beliefs and realized that I was mistaken.



Thank you for sharing your thoughts on my post. Again, I appreciate it.

You are welcome! Sometimes -- guess what? -- I am wrong or don't remember correctly, and -- sometimes the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society changes its understanding of some things. I appreciate that. I could never -- understand the scriptures on my own anyway.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Evidence is everything for consideration in a judgment. There can be evidence for and against the same thing. Even questionable sources are still evidence for consideration.

In my years of experience as a paranormal investigator, I've come to believe that skeptics won't believe in an afterlife unless they have had an up-close and personal experience with it, which could include a NDE, an OBE, or a personal encounter with a spirit(s) that they can't rationally explain or logically debunk. I've often referred to this occurrence as "seeing is believing," because I've witnessed it happen many times with skeptics over the past 16 years.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

You are welcome! Sometimes -- guess what? -- I am wrong or don't remember correctly, and -- sometimes the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society changes its understanding of some things. I appreciate that. I could never -- understand the scriptures on my own anyway.

I've noticed that there seem to be some changes because I've been told by other JWs that they believe in the eventual annihilation of the dead. Is this also what you believe, or am I misinterpreting what you've said about your personal beliefs? Thank you again for answering my questions. I appreciate it.

 

[YoursTrue]

I've noticed that there seem to be some changes because I've been told by other JWs that they believe in the eventual annihilation of the dead. Is this also what you believe, or am I misinterpreting what you've said about your personal beliefs? Thank you again for answering my questions. I appreciate it.

Not sure what they meant, but in Revelation it explains that those not counted worthy of everlasting life will be totally gone. That some will not gain everlasting life is shown in the Bible from Genesis through Revelation. It does not mean eternal physical or mental torture in some hot place. Notice, when God sentenced Adam, He said: “For dust you are and to dust you will return.” That means annihilation, not salvation or eternal torture in consciousness. Those alive may be reminded of the badness that those annihilated in the fire of Gehenna committed, so they know what is good and bad in God's eyes. That's how I see that now. Thank you again...

 

[blü 2]

Well, if you can’t understand, I cant help you

I understand with considerable clarity that you can't help me.

 

[shunyadragon]

It is not published anywhere. What is the name of the Journal? He happened to work at some institute and he has put the name of that institute in the article.

Instead of continuing to talk and make claims, why don't you actually attempt to reproduce the phenomenon which apparently is 'very easy';. Videos may not be accepted as evidence, but i will accept them from you. At least it would demonstrate that you tried to prove what you verbally claim.

The object you can experiment with can be made of metal, wood, stone, marble, plaster - whatever you like. You can use any material as porous as you want, just like your deck. Act like a true scientist instead of just talking or desperately searching for other people saying similar stuff that supports your unsubstantiated hypothesis.

The reference was published in a scientific journal as referred. It is relatively easy for porous weathered would and ceramic to absorb liquids. and very easy to drill a deep hole to increase the effect.

The problem remains it is a supernatural claim not based on objective evidence for something that i really easy to reproduce. This claim lacks any significance as to what a supernatural event would be, and similar claims are far to common in various religions in recent history.

When I stain old wood decks the problem of old porous wood to absorb liquids is very apparent, Old ceramic materials have the dame problem.

Again, again and again . . . videos and photos are NOT accepted as evidence for obvious reasons as previously described,

 

[shunyadragon]

Well, if you can’t understand, I cant help you.

I would not want help. Your vague nebulous subjective statements are not understandable and have no context in the subject of the thread

 

[soulsurvivor]

The reference was published in a scientific journal as referred. It is relatively easy for porous weathered would and ceramic to absorb liquids. and very easy to drill a deep hole to increase the effect.

The problem remains it is a supernatural claim not based on objective evidence for something that i really easy to reproduce. This claim lacks any significance as to what a supernatural event would be, and similar claims are far to common in various religions in recent history.

When I stain old wood decks the problem of old porous wood to absorb liquids is very apparent, Old ceramic materials have the dame problem.

Again, again and again . . . videos and photos are NOT accepted as evidence for obvious reasons as previously described,

If the reference was in scientific journal, what is the name of the journal? It is just webpage by a skeptic like you.

If it is so easy than why don't you actually perform the experiment and demonstrate how easy it is?

The object you can experiment with can be made of metal, wood, stone, marble, plaster - whatever you like. You can use any material as porous as you want, just like your deck. Act like a true scientist instead of just talking or desperately searching for other people saying the same stuff as yout to support your unsubstantiated hypothesis.

You just can't do it yourself and trying to hide the fact that you have not been able to reproduce the phenomenon yourself by using excuses that I would not accept anything you provide - I would accept even a fuzzy photo that showed that you made an attempt.

 

[shunyadragon]

If the reference was in scientific journal, what is the name of the journal? It is just webpage by a skeptic like you.

It was published in a scientific journal and in many other articles that investigated this phony claim.

1. Jayaraman, T. "Obscurantism vs Science – behind the milk drinking miracle". imsc.res.in. The Institute of Mathematical Sciences. Retrieved 20 April 2018.

Living in the delusions of denial of reality is your problem

If it is so easy than why don't you actually perform the experiment and demonstrate how easy it is?

Already done, pure easy physics of porous materials, surface tension of liquids, and if that does not get the results yo want drill a small hole.

The object you can experiment with can be made of metal, wood, stone, marble, plaster - whatever you like. You can use any material as porous as you want, just like your deck. Act like a true scientist instead of just talking or desperately searching for other people saying the same stuff as yout to support your unsubstantiated hypothesis.

A small hole can be frilled in any of these materials and it works well. As a carpenter for many many years the absorbtion of liquids in porous material and issues of surface tension are well known,

You just can't do it yourself and trying to hide the fact that you have not been able to reproduce the phenomenon yourself by using excuses that I would accept anything you provide - I would accept even a fuzzy photo that showed that you made an attempt.

Not hiding anything that can be explained by very vry simple physics, You are living in the delusion of clinging foolishly in the desire for supernatural and miracles.