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What is God?
- Thread starter The Sum of Awe
- Start date
Madsaac
Active Member
Yeah, depends how you look at it I suppose. Of course the universe is big and has amazing things in it but humanity has it's own amazing things. And nothing understands the universe as well as humans (As far as we know)
And humanity was still able to evolve in this monstrous place. Who knows humans knowledge may even have to save the universe one day.
And there is nothing greater than what goes on in our own little minds
I'm not really a believer in the "balance of nature" (I've studied too much ecological and environmental sciences for that) - but that's fair enough.
Keep in mind that "greater than" is not the same as saying "more important." In environmental philosophy, it is not uncommon to attribute equal intrinsic value to all things. I do this myself, but this does not mean some aspects of reality are not fundamentally greater than others - in the sense of dependency or interdependency. Neither you nor I get to have this conversation without Sun and Moon, Wind and Rain, Land and Stone, and on and on...
Madsaac
Active Member
Yes I understand but we would not be having this conversation either if it weren't for the tens of thousands of different moments in our evolution which caused us to become who we are, to me this is the ultimate 'balance' of nature.
And it could be said that the evolution of the Sun and Moon, Wind and Rain falls under the same wonderous balance of evolution.
For the universe to have created us this way means we are very, very special and one with the whole universe. And to me this means we are just as great as everything else.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
You are in effect religious.
Madsaac
Active Member
Yeah I know what you mean, but even if I believe everything evolved within the universe naturally because of different factors after the big bang, nothing to do with any 'outside' forces?
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
The idea of humans being special is a belief without evidence and as you do it a naturalistic religion.
Religion | Definition, Types, Beliefs, Symbols, Examples, Importance, & Facts
Religion, human beings’ relation to that which they regard as holy, sacred, absolute, spiritual, divine, or worthy of especial reverence. Worship, moral conduct, right belief, and participation in religious institutions are among the constituent elements of the religious life.
Just read the describtion of religion.
Madsaac
Active Member
Maybe, I think the human being is an amazing thing, you could say specialThe idea of humans being special is a belief without evidence and as you do it a naturalistic religion.
Religion | Definition, Types, Beliefs, Symbols, Examples, Importance, & Facts
Religion, human beings’ relation to that which they regard as holy, sacred, absolute, spiritual, divine, or worthy of especial reverence. Worship, moral conduct, right belief, and participation in religious institutions are among the constituent elements of the religious life.www.britannica.com
Just read the describtion of religion.
Absolutely Frank
Member
I am panentheistic so God is the teleological nexus of all ontic manifestations. The panentheistic God is an ontologically transcendent and immanently pervasive principle, constituting the ultimate ground of being (Grund) and the ineffable, unmanifest source (Ungrund) from which all phenomena emanate and to which they ultimately return. God doesn't exist like we see existence, God is the very process of existence within itself in relation to itself.
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Yeah, but that is not knowledge. That is something you think and thus it is not the same as it is known and true.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
This reminds me of B. Pascal's "thinking reed":
The human being is only a reed, the most feeble in nature; but this is a thinking reed. It isn't necessary for the entire universe to arm itself in order to crush him; a whiff of vapor, a taste of water, suffices to kill him. But when the universe crushes him, the human being becomes still more noble than that which kills him, because he knows that he is dying, and the advantage that the universe has over him. The universe, it does not have a clue.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
We can distinguish what a thing is (essence) from that it is (existence). This applies to all that is not-God. Thomas Aquinas and some other theologians namely defined God as the being itself (or existence itself) This means that its essence = existence. God is not a being among beings. Not even the Supreme being.
The being of God is being-itself. The being of God cannot be understood as the existence of a being alongside others or above others. If God is a being, he is subject to the categories of finitude, especially to space and substance. Even if he is called the “highest being” in the sense of the “most perfect” and the “most powerful” being, this situation is not changed. When applied to God, superlatives become diminutives. They place him on the level of other beings while elevating him above all of them. Many theologians who have used the term “highest being” have known better. Actually they have described the highest as the absolute, as that which is on a level qualitatively different from the level of any being - even the highest being. Whenever infinite or unconditional power and meaning are attributed to the highest being, it has ceased to be a being and has become being-itself. Many confusions in the doctrine of God and many apologetic weaknesses could be avoided if God were understood first of all as being-itself or as the ground of being. The power of being is another way of expressing the same thing in a circumscribing phrase. Ever since the time of Plato it has been known - although it often has been disregarded, especially by the nominalists and their modern followers - that the concept of being as being, or being-itself, points to the power inherent in everything, the power of resisting nonbeing. Therefore, instead of saying that God is first of all being-itself, it is possible to say that he is the power of being in everything and above everything, the infinite power of being. (Paul Tillich, Systematic Theology, Vol 1)
The discovery of God is more like a 'detection of' than a 'discovery of'. In my opinion lawyers are somehow closer to God than most. Do not confuse this for calling them priests. I am not suggesting they are anything except lawyers. In practical terms God is that which is above everyone and compared to which we all are almost exactly the same as each other.
There is a Lost Dogs song called "That's Where Jesus Is" which says "...he wants our faith but that's never enough he wants our hearts that's how he loves..."
I think God does not have a nature. You simply get a sense that God is there. It is a detection.
Christianity is a major proponent of God but not necessarily of a caring, personal, God -- contrary to popular opinion. People care. Its book Hebrews declares that Jesus (as opposed to God) is able to empathize with human weakness. The writer believes God has no weaknesses and very little in common with people. We are commanded to care for each other, and supposedly that is how God cares for us.
Answering this succinctly would require first explaining the nature of our own existence, and we cannot. We simply accept our senses, but I will put something partial out there for you towards evidence that you and I exist. Notice that the reality of God is counter to our own reality. God is transcendant, and we exist in God. If we are real without God, then that makes God less likely.
First, the evidence that you exist (external to me) is simply what my senses give me. Its nothing new, so I move onto other evidence.
There is another form of evidence which is somewhat like the 'Proof of work' in bitcoin. I talk to you and cannot predict what you will reply. This is evidence that I truly exist. It does not prove to me that you exist, but it is evidence that I do. For you its probably the same. It doesn't help use to rule out God or rule God in though. If God were predictable it would rule God out, but since God does not respond it neither helps nor hurts with that.
Analogous to that in the complexity and details of systems (such as Nature) there are always surprises. That is evidence that there is a greater thing than what we can predict. Its not proof God exists but merely that we are somewhat real -- which raises our importance. Raising our importance decreases God's importance. If everything were predictable then we might be part of a dead clockwork universe, perfectly describable with mathematics. Since it is not predictable, it is evidence that we are real, which partly counterpoints the reality of God.
Returning to your overall question: Firstly believing in God is a choice that adults make for moral purposes and on uncertain grounds. People can argue that God is made up, but they can't know that is the case.
I think it is because God is cold and unfeeling that many people insist upon a caring and nurtering deity -- a colorized version, something fragranced with perfume and painted and sweetened. A religious initiate may not have made a choice to believe in God only for moral reasons, and Christian institutions often have people who believe in a sweetened version of God. As long as they are permitted to grow that is fine, but if they are kept so ignorant I am disappointed with the institution. Many individuals outside of such institutions may not be able to focus on such an abstract thing that seems unrelated to their lives, because life can be overwhelming and distracting. Also I think a child is too young to make the moral choice to accept the un-sweetened God. They will learn on their own with time. We are people, and we want something that cares for us and is like us; but God is not a person.
There are some strange reasons people believe in God. Knowledge of God begins with realizing that we are not important. The belief in miracles is the opposite and actually interferes with this, so miracles are for children and those who are not able to realize their unimportance.
cataway
Well-Known Member
dynamic energy
Madsaac
Active Member
No, no, no it is more then something I think, 99% of people agree with this, so it is known and true
mikkel_the_dane
My own religion
Yeah, we each have a different understanding of knowledge.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
The Kingdom of God is within you.* Nothing to do with any outside forces.
In this vast wheel of Brahman, which creates all things and in which all things rest, the living being flutters about, thinking – my silent self and the world are two different things. But in truth they are not different. Some wise people see them as one, and those people rest in evenness. They gain eternal happiness.
- Shveteshvara Upanishad
* Luke 17:21
Madsaac
Active Member
You mean my imagination?
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
And what is the source of this energy?
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
If your imagination originates with you, then no. Something greater than yourself, from which you, and your imagination, originated.