What is God's highest priority?

[John D. Brey]

There is nothing on @Rational Agnostic list that would require tyranny of any sort. Let alone "ultimate".

. . . There is if you're a happy rapist, cancer, someone who doesn't want a relationship with an omnipotent Creator, and or, who doesn't want to believe in a Creator.

Are you saying there are no atheists, cancers, rapists? Or are you saying that if there are, an omnipotent God should stealthily rush them out the back door to a waiting gas-chamber and exterminate them so that there won't be any of these proofs that God isn't omnipotent?

Maybe you're saying God shouldn't create cancers, atheists, rapists, in the first place? Or are you saying he should create a world where they're snuffed out the second they arise? Or a world where they're forbidden to arise at the threat of immediate annihilation?

It seems to me that an omnipotent creator who creates a mirror image of himself, his absolute perfection, and uses it to masturbate to, fits the bill as a tyrant or selfish-sycophant who sucks all joy out of existing in the first place. I dare say someone who rejects the existing God in lust for the onanistic kill-joy noted above could rightly consider themselves created in his, their tyrant-god's, very image. . . Praise the Lord that my God doesn't snuff them out so that I don't even get to juxtapose them against those created in my God's image in order that I get to see the profound difference for myself.



John

 

[ppp]

. . . There is if you're a happy rapist, cancer, someone who doesn't want a relationship with an omnipotent Creator, and or, who doesn't want to believe in a Creator.

Are you saying there are no atheists, cancers, rapists? Or are you saying that if there are, an omnipotent God should stealthily rush them out the back door to a waiting gas-chamber and exterminate them so that there won't be any of these proofs that God isn't omnipotent?

Maybe you're saying God shouldn't create cancers, atheists, rapists, in the first place? Or are you saying he should create a world where they're snuffed out the second they arise? Or a world where they're forbidden to arise at the threat of immediate annihilation?

It seems to me that an omnipotent creator who creates a mirror image of himself, his absolute perfection, and uses it to masturbate to, fits the bill as a tyrant or selfish-sycophant who sucks all joy out of existing in the first place. I dare say someone who rejects the existing God in lust for the onanistic kill-joy noted above could rightly consider themselves created in his, their tyrant-god's, very image. . . Praise the Lord that my God doesn't snuff them out so that I don't even get to juxtapose them against those created in my God's image in order that I get to see the profound difference for myself.



John

You have posed a lot of irrelevant scenarios. None of all that stuff is necessary or a consideration. An omnipotent god could create a world where inflicting physical harm was simply not possible. Where cancer does not occur. All of your objections are trumped by the meaning of the word "omnipotence". All of your consequences are trumped by the meaning of the word "omnipotence".

 

[osgart]

If I had a God, that God's highest priority is for everyone to love every virtue with all of your fiber of being. I've counted 100 virtues, or positive character traits. Not by law, force, nor command, only by full will and total convincement should one love the virtues. Virtues are not fully understood in this world.

 

[John D. Brey]

An omnipotent god could create a world where inflicting physical harm was simply not possible. Where cancer does not occur.

Your statement implies that you are yourself omniscient since you seem to posit your statement dogmatically as though you know it for an absolute certainty. How on earth could I argue with a master-debater who feigns omniscience as one of his debaters tools.

Once you pull out your ornery omniscience my God ends up looking positively omni-impotent. And since I'm neither omniscient nor omnipotent your statement leaves me on the sidelines watching you and God arm-wrestle for the trophy.

Presumably, omnipotence doesn't include the power to do things that are illogical or impossible: like making a rock so big it can't be lifted. As far as we less than omniscient mortal minds know, creating a world with freewill but not sin, is illogical, like the ability to make a rock so big it can't be lifted. We could say that making a grip of creature with true freewill is like making a rock too big to lift, where being too big to lift is like lots of freewill creatures all being able not to sin.

History, and the Bible, insinuate that freewill will free creatures to sin if for no reason other than to test their freewill to make sure they have it. Unfortunately, once the Pandora's box is opened, well, hell, here we are.



John

 

[Truthseeker]

Then in your example, God's top priority is not having a relationship with humans, it's giving humans free will, which is a higher priority than having a relationship with humans in your example above.

Interesting take. This Hidden Word may indicate that (in my interpretation).

2. O SON OF SPIRIT!
The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.
(Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

When this mentions justice, it doesn't in original word translated here mean a system of laws and reward and punishment deriving therefrom apparently, it appears to mean more akin to fairness in judgement, as evidenced by the sentence: "By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor.". It is also called "The best beloved of all things". This could well mean, though I'm not sure of this, that free will is God's top priority. I would say that the second priority is knowing and worshipping God. Worshipping God, by the way, does not mean to Baha'is merely getting on our knees and praying, it also means serving our fellow man.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What Bible verse talks about God's omnipotence?
Scripture affirms God's omnipotence by saying that God does whatever he is pleased to do (Psa 115:3; cf. Isa 55:11 and Jer 32:17). Nothing is too hard for him (Gen 18:14). His word is never void of power, so when he speaks, everything in creation obeys him (Isa 55:11)................................

Yes, His word is never void of power (Isa.55:11; 46:10-11 B; Joshua 23:14 B )
But God is Not like a mere man who can tell lies (Numbers 23:19) because God can Not lie - Titus 1:2; Hebrews 6:18
So, 'yes' according to Scripture there are things God can Not do such as lie.
Thus, the word that comes out of God's mouth are only righteous words - Isaiah 45:23
This means righteousness is the word that pleases God - Psalm 115:3
Nothing is too wonderful for God to create ( as in creation ) Jer. 32:17; Isa. 40:26; Jesus agrees - Rev. 4:11
Jesus knew the world did Not know his Righteous Father - see John 17:25

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If I had a God, that God's highest priority is for everyone to love every virtue with all of your fiber of being. I've counted 100 virtues, or positive character traits. Not by law, force, nor command, only by full will and total convincement should one love the virtues.

Virtues are not fully understood in this world.

Yes, if virtues were fully understood in this world they would overflow or seep out of people.
Minds fixed on the things above, heavenly things - Colossians 3:1-2
Worthy virtuous things to keep on considering such as found listed at Philippians 4:8
Whatever things are true
Whatever things are honest
Whatever things are just/righteous
Whatever things are pure/chaste
Whatever things are loveable
Whatever things are of good report/ well spoken of.
Whatever things are virtuous
Whatever things are praiseworthy

 

[PearlSeeker]

I would like to pose a question for theists, namely: what is God's top priority? I cannot prove that no god exists, but there are many types of gods that I can prove do not exist.


I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing rape and murder cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing childhood cancer cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing starvation cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing the extinction of 99% of the species he created cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is having a personal relationship with all of his human creations cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is having all humans believe in him cannot exist.


I could give many other examples, but I think the point has been made. If God exists, and he is omnipotent, his top priority cannot be any of the above things. So what is God's top priority? Since it seems like one of the items I listed above would be the top priority of the god of classical theism, it almost seems that if God does exist, then his top priority is to make it look like he doesn't exist.

I don't know about God. I can only look around and think if there is something that our universe prioritizes. Maybe the universe was meant to be observed (anatropical principle). Maybe we are not accidentally here.

 

[osgart]

Yes, if virtues were fully understood in this world they would overflow or seep out of people.
Minds fixed on the things above, heavenly things - Colossians 3:1-2
Worthy virtuous things to keep on considering such as found listed at Philippians 4:8
Whatever things are true
Whatever things are honest
Whatever things are just/righteous
Whatever things are pure/chaste
Whatever things are loveable
Whatever things are of good report/ well spoken of.
Whatever things are virtuous
Whatever things are praiseworthy

People gravitate to whatever pleases their ego as much if not moreso than when people turn to virtues. Things such as virtuous love and also mercy love are not well understood. However if one seeks what is true, or in accordance with virtues, they'll find out a lot about virtues and vices using their own reason, outward expression, meditation, and experiences alone.

I try to look at the Bible as a whole, and not just cherry pick all the inspiring verses. Then I try to compare the actions of that God using Scripture to compare with other scripture. There's a deep secular study about the Bible on YouTube with a guy that objectively looks at the whole of the Bible, he goes by the name Mindshift. Bible criticism and scrutiny is a growing trend in society. I see that the Bible refutes itself. But I've learned that though I'm an atheist, that virtues are really everything that people need if they care at all about living a fulfilling life.

Many Christians experience Christianity from the standpoint of indoctrination where they are subjected to the religion in only one particular way. I don't think they study the whole of it independently and objectively before they dive head first into living it.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

People gravitate to whatever pleases their ego as much if not moreso than when people turn to virtues. Things such as virtuous love and also mercy love are not well understood. However if one seeks what is true, or in accordance with virtues, they'll find out a lot about virtues and vices using their own reason, outward expression, meditation, and experiences alone.
I try to look at the Bible as a whole, and not just cherry pick all the inspiring verses. Then I try to compare the actions of that God using Scripture to compare with other scripture. There's a deep secular study about the Bible on YouTube with a guy that objectively looks at the whole of the Bible, he goes by the name Mindshift. Bible criticism and scrutiny is a growing trend in society. I see that the Bible refutes itself. But I've learned that though I'm an atheist, that virtues are really everything that people need if they care at all about living a fulfilling life.
Many Christians experience Christianity from the standpoint of indoctrination where they are subjected to the religion in only one particular way. I don't think they study the whole of it independently and objectively before they dive head first into living it.

I like that you brought out about study the whole.... before diving in head first.
Unlike other books the Bible is chock full of corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages.
Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " it is written......" meaning already written down in the OT.
Thus, Jesus based his teachings by his logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Not cherry picking but that ALL Scripture is useful and inspired by God - 2nd Tim. 3:16-17

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I don't know about God. I can only look around and think if there is something that our universe prioritizes. Maybe the universe was meant to be observed (anatropical principle). Maybe we are not accidentally here.

According to Genesis we are Not accidentally here but for the purpose of Genesis 1:28 to populate Earth, take good care of Earth and live forever on Earth.

In the Genesis account God was slandered so the passing of time was needed for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us and to clear the name of God - Hallowed be God's name........

 

[URAVIP2ME]

You have posed a lot of irrelevant scenarios. None of all that stuff is necessary or a consideration. An omnipotent god could create a world where inflicting physical harm was simply not possible. Where cancer does not occur.............................

In Eden there was No sickness, No inflicting of physical harm but man was Not forced to listen to God.
God purposes a return to edenic paradisical conditions - Isaiah chapter 35 beautiful word picture for us.
The passing of time has allowed for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
Those who do or want to inflict physical harm will be gone forever. That is the soon coming future.

 

[blü 2]

I would like to pose a question for theists, namely: what is God's top priority? I cannot prove that no god exists, but there are many types of gods that I can prove do not exist.


I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing rape and murder cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing childhood cancer cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing starvation cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is preventing the extinction of 99% of the species he created cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is having a personal relationship with all of his human creations cannot exist.
I know that an omnipotent god whose top priority is having all humans believe in him cannot exist.


I could give many other examples, but I think the point has been made. If God exists, and he is omnipotent, his top priority cannot be any of the above things. So what is God's top priority? Since it seems like one of the items I listed above would be the top priority of the god of classical theism, it almost seems that if God does exist, then his top priority is to make it look like he doesn't exist.

Forgive me, I'm not a theist, but history makes it plain that any god's top priority is to keep a following,

A god without a following is a dead god.

 

[Trailblazer]

According to Genesis we are Not accidentally here but for the purpose of Genesis 1:28 to populate Earth, take good care of Earth and live forever on Earth.

According to Genesis we were to populate Earth and take good care of Earth, but God never intended for anybody to live forever on Earth.

Humans will continue to be born and die on Earth as long as Earth lasts, but after humans die they do not come back to life and live on Earth. forever.
They go to Heaven and live forever in Heaven.

 

[Trailblazer]

Forgive me, I'm not a theist, but history makes it plain that any god's top priority is to keep a following,

A god without a following is a dead god.

Forgive me, but God needs no following because God has no needs.

A God without a following is a God that lives and keeps doing what God does, maintaining and ruling everything in existence.

 

[ppp]

In Eden there was No sickness, No inflicting of physical harm but man was Not forced to listen to God.
God purposes a return to edenic paradisical conditions - Isaiah chapter 35 beautiful word picture for us.
The passing of time has allowed for us to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
Those who do or want to inflict physical harm will be gone forever. That is the soon coming future.

Thank you for your canned response. But it is irrelevant to what I said.

 

[Trailblazer]

An omnipotent god could create a world where inflicting physical harm was simply not possible. Where cancer does not occur. All of your objections are trumped by the meaning of the word "omnipotence". All of your consequences are trumped by the meaning of the word "omnipotence".

What you said is trumped by the implications of the word "omnipotence".
An omnipotent God only does what He chooses to do, not what you think He should do.

It does not matter what a omnipotent God could do.....
The omniscient God knows better than to do what you are proposing.

 

[blü 2]

Forgive me, but God needs no following because God has no needs.

A God without a following is a God that lives and keeps doing what God does, maintaining and ruling everything in existence.

I respectfully suggest that an unknown god, who accordingly has no following, is entirely irrelevant to human affairs.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

According to Genesis we were to populate Earth and take good care of Earth, but God never intended for anybody to live forever on Earth.
Humans will continue to be born and die on Earth as long as Earth lasts, but after humans die they do not come back to life and live on Earth. forever.
They go to Heaven and live forever in Heaven.

As long as Adam and Eve did Not break the law they would live forever on Earth- Genesis 2:17
Earth lasts forever -> Ecclesiastes 1:4 B; Psalm 104:5
No one who died before Jesus died was offered Heaven - John 3:13
That includes John the Baptist - Matthew 11:11.
No one named in God's Hall of Fame - Hebrews 11:13,39 - is in Heaven.
Even King David did Not ascend - Acts 2:34
No un-baptized person enters Heaven. Christian baptism is a heavenly requirement for ones who make a dedication.
Jesus promised Earth at Matthew 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26
Only the people like those of Luke 22:28-30 will have a heavenly resurrection.
That is because they will govern over Earth with Jesus - Rev. 20:6; 5:9-10; 2:10
On Earth is where enemy 'death' will end according to 1st Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8

 

[osgart]

I like that you brought out about study the whole.... before diving in head first.
Unlike other books the Bible is chock full of corresponding or parallel cross-reference verses and passages.
Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " it is written......" meaning already written down in the OT.
Thus, Jesus based his teachings by his logical reasoning on the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Not cherry picking but that ALL Scripture is useful and inspired by God - 2nd Tim. 3:16-17

How is chapter 13 of Isaiah inspired by God? How is such a cruel, and disgusting punishment justified?