What is Hell?

[Zadok]

How is this different from delusion?

It is easy to tell who is delusional – Jesus put it this way – By their fruits you shall know them. Not by their doctrine or what they say they believe or by studying scripture. The grand key is the deeds and their attitude about the importance that they do good works.

Zadok

 

[smokydot]

Wrong again - The King James version offers an interesting insight to scriptures. Because the ancients meant things to be provided in a "complete" structure they wrote scriptures in a format prescribed by G-d. The King James version tries to maintain that structure with the paragraph symbol “¶”. Therefore the question or idea put forth in verse 18 is completed in the following verses to the next ¶.
What does it mean to believe in Christ. First verse 19 and 20 define why Christ is rejected. “… and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil” “For every one that doeth evil hateth the light.
Verse 21 completes the structure started in verse 18 and explains what G-d wants all to understand is necessary (according to him) to believe in Christ. “But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest”
If you believed the scriptures and believed in G-d you would understand that deeds of truth come before believing in Christ.

They didn't come first in that text.

Spoken like a Pharsee (John 7:49) If Jesus was your master you would do his works - not with your lips and with your mouth but with your deeds and you woulld believe in doing the deeds (commandmensts) of Christ. You would understand that is is better to be more complete (perfect - matt 5:48) in order to know of Christ by keeping his commandments than by claiming to believe in scripture as did the Scribes and Pharsees.
Zadok

You're trying to set the Word of God (Jesus) against the Word of God written.
What's wrong with that picture?

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

It is easy to tell who is delusional – Jesus put it this way – By their fruits you shall know them. Not by their doctrine or what they say they believe or by studying scripture. The grand key is the deeds and their attitude about the importance that they do good works.

Zadok

Zadok knows what being a christian is really about.

 

[Debunker]

I have asked myself this question many times.
What I used to think of Hell is a place of evil, a lack of love. A place where bad people go who are tortured for the rest of their lives.
After reading a few articles online and peoples point of view on Hell, I have mixed messages.
1) Is that Hell is not a place, it's when you live a bad life sinning, without remorse etc and then dieing as an atheist person believes.
2) Hell has been created after Heaven for a place for people who lived a life of sinning etc, except it's just a place without God, it didn't really describe Hell as a negative place.

It's hard to explain what I've read.

What is Hell really?

The best idea of hell that I know of is the explanation the 7th.Day Adventist have of hell and is the one I think the Bible agrees with. After this life, there is no hell. When you die, your dead and you know nothing. The advantage of accepting Christ is that you are raised to life everlasting with God. Sinners are dead forever, never to live again. there is no such thing as eternal torture. You are just dead.

 

[james2ko]

The best idea of hell that I know of is the explanation the 7th.Day Adventist have of hell and is the one I think the Bible agrees with. After this life, there is no hell. When you die, your dead and you know nothing. The advantage of accepting Christ is that you are raised to life everlasting with God. Sinners are dead forever, never to live again.there is no such thing as eternal torture. You are just dead.

And so goes popular belief...I'm not convinced the bible really supports this statement.

 

[Looncall]

It is easy to tell who is delusional – Jesus put it this way – By their fruits you shall know them. Not by their doctrine or what they say they believe or by studying scripture. The grand key is the deeds and their attitude about the importance that they do good works.

Zadok

Nonsense. One could easily be led to do good works by ideas that are entirely false.

Belief without evidence is delusion regardless of its consequences.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

Nonsense. One could easily be led to do good works by ideas that are entirely false.

Belief without evidence is delusion regardless of its consequences.

The poster was saying that pretenders to the creed of Jesus are soon exposed for the charlatans they are by their deeds and actions.
Its quite simple...the ideas/beliefs/doctrine are not important...the actions are.
That is what the poster is saying.


You just decided to attack his belief system...because you feel there is no evidence for you...well he might have his own evidence that you could not possibly fathom or comprehend, subjective as it may be to him...back off atheist...

To call the creed of Christ DELUSIONAL....which basically is to love thy brother neighbour and enemy, and I might add an extremely sensible set of principles to base a free, healthy, peaceful, harmoniuous and relatively crime free society upon...seems rather ignorant and in my subjective opinion...subjective.

Anyone can choose to follow a creed that appeals to them...its not delusional...its a choice.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

The best idea of hell that I know of is the explanation the 7th.Day Adventist have of hell and is the one I think the Bible agrees with. After this life, there is no hell. When you die, your dead and you know nothing. The advantage of accepting Christ is that you are raised to life everlasting with God. Sinners are dead forever, never to live again. there is no such thing as eternal torture. You are just dead.

Yes Hell is nonsense...derived from Babylonian myth and it's long dead theology...that the jews picked up and incorporated into judaism during their inhabitation of Babylonian lands in their prehistory.

 

[Looncall]

The poster was saying that pretenders to the creed of Jesus are soon exposed for the charlatans they are by their deeds and actions.
Its quite simple...the ideas/beliefs/doctrine are not important...the actions are.
That is what the poster is saying.


You just decided to attack his belief system...because you feel there is no evidence for you...well he might have his own evidence that you could not possibly fathom or comprehend, subjective as it may be to him...back off atheist...

To call the creed of Christ DELUSIONAL....which basically is to love thy brother neighbour and enemy, and I might add an extremely sensible set of principles to base a free, healthy, peaceful, harmoniuous and relatively crime free society upon...seems rather ignorant and in my subjective opinion...subjective.

Anyone can choose to follow a creed that appeals to them...its not delusional...its a choice.

if someone believes something, but is unable to present convincing evidence to others, the others are justified in considering that belief delusional. The lunatic who believes that he is Napoleon Bonaparte may think that he has perfectly good evidence for his belief, but he will not be able to convince anyone else of that.

The fact that some ideas are thought to produce favourable consequences says nothing about the truth of those ideas.

The fact that some body of ideas is called a religion says nothing about the accuracy of those ideas. That accuracy must be demonstrated to obtain respect in the wider community.

As to your appeal to so-called christian morality, I have two observations to make. First, a set of moral principles can be obtained by reason that is just as good as the christian one, but is not accompanied by mumbo-jumbo. Second, it is not the case that religious communities are more moral than non-religious ones. In the USA, as an example, crime and social dysfunction correlate positively with religiosity.

 

[Primordial Annihilator]

if someone believes something, but is unable to present convincing evidence to others, the others are justified in considering that belief delusional. The lunatic who believes that he is Napoleon Bonaparte may think that he has perfectly good evidence for his belief, but he will not be able to convince anyone else of that.

The fact that some ideas are thought to produce favourable consequences says nothing about the truth of those ideas.

The fact that some body of ideas is called a religion says nothing about the accuracy of those ideas. That accuracy must be demonstrated to obtain respect in the wider community.

As to your appeal to so-called christian morality, I have two observations to make. First, a set of moral principles can be obtained by reason that is just as good as the christian one, but is not accompanied by mumbo-jumbo. Second, it is not the case that religious communities are more moral than non-religious ones. In the USA, as an example, crime and social dysfunction correlate positively with religiosity.

So why should a christian have to convince you his beliefs have some kind of scientific or altruistic truth to them unless he wants to convert you?
Why should you label him delusional just because his beliefs do not comform to your prejudices and subjective ignorance?
To him you are equally delusional..because you have little if any evidence that the universe lacks a creator...you have no explantion for chaos...or ghosts...or miracles...and many other things that science has no mundane explantion for...you might just deny that they exist or that they are the product of psychosis...to me they are weak baseless arguments suitable for the likes of UFO debunkers.

None of your business or concern what he believes is it really anyway?

I personally do not care one jot about the details of a religion or the details of an individual's beliefs...I am only interested in the fruits of those beliefs....that is what matters.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I personally do not care one jot about the details of a religion or the details of an individual's beliefs...I am only interested in the fruits of those beliefs....that is what matters.

That's a good point. But how can we analyze the fruits? Are the fruits the teachings of a religion? or how those teachings affected the world?

 

[smokydot]

Yes Hell is nonsense...derived from Babylonian myth and it's long dead theology...that the jews picked up and incorporated into judaism during their inhabitation of Babylonian lands in their prehistory.

The NT Jesus in the gospels is the one who says the most about hell.

You don't need to go back to Babylon or the OT to learn what it is.

 

[Thief]

I don't see the word 'motivation'....

Any deed performed, has your hand behind it.

If your hand does anything at all, it is...
that you thought you should do so ...or.... because you felt like it.

Either way, there is the underlying topic of motivation and no one seems to be touching on it.

If you do as I ask...it is obedience....which could be blind and shallow...
driven by fear...or self seeking reward.

I would prefer you did so....because...
It was a good thing to do...and good people do good things.

If you enter into heaven it is because you belong there.

If you are left behind...going nowhere but hell....
perhaps your motivations were ....shallow.

 

[smokydot]

I don't see the word 'motivation'....
Any deed performed, has your hand behind it.
If your hand does anything at all, it is...
that you thought you should do so ...or.... because you felt like it.
Either way, there is the underlying topic of motivation and no one seems to be touching on it.
If you do as I ask...it is obedience....which could be blind and shallow...
driven by fear...or self seeking reward.
I would prefer you did so....because...
It was a good thing to do...and good people do good things.
If you enter into heaven it is because you belong there.
If you are left behind...going nowhere but hell....
perhaps your motivations were ....shallow.

Or it is as simple as Jesus said, "He who does not believe in me is condemend already."

 

[Thief]

Or it is as simple as Jesus said, "He who does not believe in me is condemend already."

Or more like....
'there are many who come in my Name and I know them not.'

 

[PolyHedral]

I do not see what use any version of Hell would be. It amounts to God punishing us for correctly working from incomplete information, and that seems entirely unjust.

 

[Thief]

I do not see what use any version of Hell would be. It amounts to God punishing us for correctly working from incomplete information, and that seems entirely unjust.

Perhaps you care not to draw the line?

Let everyone into heaven?
Even if it means destroying the peace that heaven is reported to be made of?

 

[PolyHedral]

Since when was letting everyone and peace mutually exclusive? It's not as though God has to obey any set of physics, or is limited in any way.

 

[Thief]

Since when was letting everyone and peace mutually exclusive? It's not as though God has to obey any set of physics, or is limited in any way.

And God has no limit? Says who?
Cross the 'line' and see what happens.
Was not His favored angel cast out?
Guaranteed position in heaven?...I think not.

Peace is not made of chemistry.

 

[smokydot]

Or more like....
'there are many who come in my Name and I know them not.'

Agreed!