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What is Hell?
- Thread starter Irelandrulz2
- Start date
jtartar
Well-Known Member
Smokydot,
Much false information has been written about the Hell of the Bible. Please do not listen to what people SAY the Bible says, but read what it actually SAYS. The Bible will interpret itself, if you allow it to, Gen 40:8, Dan 2:28.
Now, the Hebrew word Sheol and the Greek word Hades are synonymous, both mean the common GRAVE of mankind. What istermed Hades or Sheol does not have to be a formalk burial, but can mean any form of death, such as Jonah being swallowed by a large fish, Jonah 2:2, or bring Deep Sixed in the water, Rev 20:13. Notice that is Rev 20:13 Hades is mentioned and ones are resurrected from Hades. There is not a mention of being resurrected from Gehenna, because Gehenna is the same place as The Lake of Fire, Rev 20:14,15. Consider how this compares to what Jesus said at Kark 9:43-48.
Several times Jesus WARNED about serious sins that could lead to Gehenna, Matt 5:22, 29, 30, 18:8,9, Matt 23:33. Reason, Jesus would not warn them about the common grave, since all go there, so he must have been talking about another place.
Gehenna was a garbage dump that the people of Jeruaslem used that was in the valley of Hinnom. This valley converged with the Tyropoeon and the Kidron valley, toward the South of the City. This was on the West side of the city of Jerusalem, between the NW Corner Gate and the SW Corner Gate. There were steep clifts in this area so there were no gates. In this valley there was a garbage dump. The people of Jerusalem threw garbage over the wall into this valley. Fires were kept burning all the time, and sulfur was thrown into the fires to keep them burning hot, to make sure that everything thrown there was completely destroyed. No living thing was thrown there,and only the most vile criminals, people the Israelites thought did not deserve a burial.
Jesus used the dump as a symbol for a destiny much worse than Hades, because the people knew that anything thrown there was completely destroyed. Isaiah mentioned thsi place at the end of his book, Isa 66:24.
The term HELL as translated in many Bibles is actually just the corruption of the Greek word Hades, or the Hebrew word Sheol, from which Jesus has promised to resurrect all people in the memorial tombs, John 5:28,29. No one that is thrown into Symbolic, Gehenna, will be resurrected, the very reason for Jesus' warning.
The place that wicked angels, Satans angels, are held until judgemant day is TARTARUS, 2Pet 2:4. No human are thrown there.
Notice that at Rev 20:14 that death and Hades are thrown into the Lake of Fire, but not Gehenna, because Gehenna and The Lake of Fire are the same place. Rev 20:15 states that ALL who are not written in the Book of Life, both angel and mankind, will be thrown into the Lake of Fire, which is the Symbol for Everlasting Destruction, 2Thes 1:6-9.
I am quoting Jesus' words from the gospels.
Did you just say
second death = unquenchable fire = lake of fire?
Unquenchable would be eternal.
Therefore, the second death and the lake of fire are eternal.
In the NT, second birth and second death are spiritual phenomena.
The first birth and first death are physical phenomena.
In the NT, the second birth is into eternal fellowship with God.
In the NT, the second death is into eternal wrath of God.
You do not correctly understand the Christian Bible.
You are imposing a foreign grid upon it from outside itself to force its reconciliation with reference points alien to it.
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Zadok
Zadok
Wrong, discipline must come first - One must know of Christ before they can believe and the disciples (those disciplined) of Christ were clearly told that anyone claiming to know Christ that does not keep the commandments is a liar. (I John 2:3-5)
The only way to know the Messiah is by the discipline of keeping his commandments (G-d manifests his will by the commandments). Jesus clearly taught this and spoke of it in John 7:17. If someone (in this case Pharisees and other Jews) does not do the will of G-d they will not understanding correct doctrine from false doctrine and cannot identify what is of G-d and what is not.
Anyone can quote scripture to establish false doctrine for so did Satan in tempting the Messiah. But those not disciplined by the commandments cannot understand the doctrines of G-d and therefore will teach a doctrine of lies.
This principle is true of all things not just the doctrine of G-d. Those that say they believe in mathematics but are not disciplined by the logic and principles of math and are unable to apply those principles are lying about their belief in mathematics. Those that say they believe in good economy but create debt lie. Those that say they believe in loving others but treat others with contempt are liars.
There are many things said about G-d but only those that are disciplined and prepared by keeping the commandments of G-d will be able to even receive the truth of Him See the parable of the Sower in Luke 8:4-15. Pay particular attention to verse 15. The knowledge of any truth comes after the discipline there are no exceptions the so called exceptions are all lies.
I would suggest that the problem here comes from undisciplined teachers that teach false doctrine. Just as it is foolish to learn mathematics from someone undisciplined in mathematics it is likewise foolish to learn of G-d from teachers undisciplined in his commandments. I strongly suggest you find more disciplined teachers to learn of the things of G-d.
Zadok
It is the NT that reveals Jesus is the Christ, and it is the NT that is the authority regarding him.
The NT presents knowledge of God through Christ differently than you do.
It's only requirement is faith in Jesus the Christ, which faith is evidenced by keeping his commands.
But the NT reveals that it is by faith alone, not by law keeping, that one knows God through Jesus the Christ.
And since the NT is the authority on Jesus the Christ, it is what is to be believed regarding him.
Zadok
Zadok
If you had faith in the Messiah you would believe his words and keep his commandments. According to the NT as it records the theachings of Jesus - can one be forgiven of their sins before they have forgiven others? Please provide your reference. You error thinking that the commandments of G-d (to forgive others) are not necessary for your sins to be forgiven.
Zadok
Primordial Annihilator
Well-Known Member
Hell is here on Earth in places at times.
Condemnation to hell is for one reason and one reason only--unforgiven sin.
Jesus said, "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe in him is condemned already (by the Law) because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." (Jn 3:18)
"Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him." (Jn 3:36)
So what is the unforgiven sin here that condemns to hell? . .it is unbelief in Jesus the Christ, whose atonement for sin (forgiveness) is received only by faith in him.
Outside faith in him, there is no forgiveness of sin because it requires atonement.
Forgiving others does not atone for one's sin. . .and atonement is the only source of forgiveness. . .and is received only through faith in Jesus the Christ.
The Lord's Prayer is a pattern for believers (in Jesus the Christ), who, through faith in Jesus the Christ, have already been forgiven for their sin by his atonement.
It is a prayer for daily bread (physical food) and for daily foriveness (spiritual food), which is necessary to restore any broken communion with God.
Failure to forgive others calls into question one's own forgiveness (through faith), since God's mercy does not move one to forgive others.
It's one of the barometers of true faith in Jesus the Christ.
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Let's try this. . .for truth. . .
Hell is that place. . .
of God's wrath to which one has been condemned. . .
with people just like you. . .
and no one to protect you. . .
God is not there.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
And in post #230, what 'not chosen' would that be?
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Can't jump from one idea to another?
(stop trying to dissect my post word for word...and look to the meaning)
Many are called few are chosen.
Can you?
All meaning in transcript is necessarily in the words.
Those not chosen because of their unbelief would be the same as those condemned.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
For those reading this thread...Thief has not been well quoted....
And yes there is a difference between condemnation as compared to allowing someone to stand among their own kind.
Then provide the correct quote so we can see that.
Those condemned will be standing among their own kind.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Those not chosen will be standing among their own kind.
Picture it!
For the rest of eternity....
you quote scripture..... the next guy quotes scripture....etc..etc...etc...
Then someone of a different faith will do the same thing...
but you will reject his quote...different book....
Then someone else will come along...and more of the same.
oh hell....
recital is not wisdom
If only your imagination were as true as the Word of God written. . .
It is the highest wisdom when it is the Word of God written that is recited.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
Recital is not wisdom.