Careful theology and doctrine cannot be separated. Doctrine and Dogma are based on the theological belief of any particular church or religion.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
What is in a name: Why are Christians readily accepting of Judaic theology and not Islamic theology?
- Thread starter Epic Beard Man
- Start date
Careful theology and doctrine cannot be separated. Doctrine and Dogma are based on the theological belief of any particular church or religion.
It is a mess of theological comprehension...
Tho Alah is Aramaic for God...
The term Allah in the Quran has multiple references to it being the God Most High (El Elyon)...
Whereas Christians are worshiping YHVH Elohim as the father of jesus; when Yeshua Elohim was YHVH Elohim, and his father is the God Most High (Luke 1:32).
It is good Islam returns worship to the God Most High; yet the Arch Angels/Elohim/Avatars who coded reality are forgotten.
In my opinion.
Tumah
Veteran Member
The Quran puts the same as Judaism has believed since the Babylonian Exile, that YHVH Elohim is the God Most High, and calls it Allah.
So it is the same faulty comprehension in both, neither recognize the Divine Council, and both have an Arch Angel as God Almighty.
Christians have been mislead by the Sanhedrin's made up Gospel of John, to perceive that Yeshua's father is YHVH, when it is El Elyon.
Due to the many contradictions in theology in the NT, some Christians worship the God Most High, and some are the same as Judaism worshiping a name that changed, when YHVH became Yeshua (H3444 + H1961 = Exodus 15:2-3, Psalms 118:14-21, Isaiah 12:2).
In my opinion.
stvdv
Veteran Member
Thank you for the feedback. I like some understanding of Islam. You seem to know about it, so could you please tell me if the part in blue below can be called "an important part of the Islam belief?". So I might understand the difference in theology you asked about.
[When I heard "Mishary Rashed Al-Efasy" recite I thought, Islam must be good, it sounds so beautiful].
To have no confusion for myself I used the definition I found below.
Christian Theology would be the "study of God" that is found in the Bible. This study would include all aspects of God, including such things as His: deity, nature, purpose, attributes, relationship to the world and other beings, and more.
I was focussing in my previous reply on this aspect of Theology. So my thought was, that if the scripture contains violence to other believers [just because of difference of believe], I myself am not inclined to believe this scripture, because I see Love as the bridge between religion.
However as you said "theology, not doctrine" I tried another view [blue part]; is that more what you had in mind?:
If you ask me what I find from the text below, which I found about Islam, I would say "beautiful", I was very happy to read this, just wonderful. If this would be a little summary of what Islam stands for, I love that. The first 80% in blue no disagreement. Last 20% did surprise me a little though.
If there have been 100.000 prophets before, I would be surprised Mohammed would be the last one [just my common sense, and remembering Bahai]. As is written below "religion has been changed over time", I also see today different interpretation of koran [update seems needed]
This was called, an important [90%] part of the Islam belief; is this correct according to you?
"There is One Supreme Being and Creator that is entirely other than the universe, and upon which the entirety of the universe is dependent. Man was given, and we accepted, the responsibility of intellect and the ability to acquire knowledge of all things. We have the ability to know our universe, as well as to come to know God. Before this life, every human was asked by Allah, our Creator, “Am I not your Lord?” to which we all testified “Certainly.” The memory of this is not with us, but belief in Him is ingrained within our natural disposition.
Now we are placed in this world with one sole purpose, which is to worship God. And the only two things man is responsible for is his free will, and sincerity. Everything is under Allah’s control, but we are told to use this free will to do good works for His sake. And this entails believing in Him (along with His Angels, Books, and Prophets), as well as living life and regulating the Earth as He commanded."
We believe that Christianity and Judaism were also Islam, i.e. the same religion all calling to submission to God, but we believe that they have been changed by man over time. We also believe in the same prophets, though we don’t believe they were sinful as in Christianity, and also believe Jesus is a prophet and not the begotten son of God. In fact, we believe over 100,000 prophets have been sent to mankind all calling to the worship of the same One God (peace be upon them all). Finally, we believe that the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, is the final messenger of God, and that the Qur’an is the final Word of God sent to mankind and that it will remain unchanged since it’s revelation
Last edited:
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
Well if we are referring to the intricate meanings of Christ how it is viewed in Christianity as opposed to Islam and Judaism then it is up for debate. The common thread here concerning Christ theologically in Islam, is that Jesus was divine and was here as a messenger for the Bani Israel.
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
Because it doesn't say Judaism and Christianity are wrong:
"And do not argue with the People of the Scripture except in a way that is best, except for those who commit injustice among them, and say, "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you. And our God and your God is one; and we are Muslims [in submission] to Him."
Surah 29:46
I don't like having to say @Tumah, you're wrong, but...
"O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him."
Surah An-Nisa [4:171]
"O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him."
Surah An-Nisa [4:171]
Apologes
Active Member
Islam rejects the central beliefs of Christianity and condemns them as corruptions. In doing so it condemns the religion as corrupt.
It is therefore highly incoherent to understand the (contextless) quote you provided as saying that Islam believes the same things that Christians believe as that is obviously false.
Tumah
Veteran Member
TIL! Although I guess I'm confused about what they believe the messiah does.
Mohsen
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
but interpret it very VERY differently.
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
Well the Jews think the Christians are wrong as well.
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
It is a mess of theological comprehension...
Tho Alah is Aramaic for God...
The term Allah in the Quran has multiple references to it being the God Most High (El Elyon)...
Whereas Christians are worshiping YHVH Elohim as the father of jesus; when Yeshua Elohim was YHVH Elohim, and his father is the God Most High (Luke 1:32).
It is good Islam returns worship to the God Most High; yet the Arch Angels/Elohim/Avatars who coded reality are forgotten.
In my opinion.
You are confusing me....
Apologes
Active Member
I never disputed that.
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
An old video I have posted before but it also speaks on the issue concerning the theology between Jews and Muslims as well as Christians:
Jumi
Well-Known Member
I don't think majority of Christians accept Jewish theology much better than they do Islamic theology. Most of the time the Christian thinks they have the superior perspective on the Bible. I believe the same holds true of Muslims for the two older religions beliefs.
Of course there are groups of people in Islam, Christianity and Judaism who believe they have the same God. You could also include Bahai and perhaps some smaller religions to that as well.
Of course there are groups of people in Islam, Christianity and Judaism who believe they have the same God. You could also include Bahai and perhaps some smaller religions to that as well.
Kelly of the Phoenix
Well-Known Member
Not without merit, though.
He's a Trojan Horse who is valued by many over Jesus himself.
Every Last Prophet says the same thing until the New Prophet comes along.
Do you live like Jesus?
El was the Most High. Yahweh and Baal were just His Kids (or in-laws, depending on the source).
Where's the body of Jesus?
The Temple still has a wall left. Got Jesus' fingernails or something?
No one has ever faked such things? Really? It's even easier in earlier times when we couldn't bust out the EKGs and EEGs to confirm death.
I mean, I have an uncle who met his untimely end in a gigantic fireball as his truck burned and all that was left was ash. We've also seen my uncle on various occasions afterward and my father had been visited by the same funeral home director who did my uncle's funeral just the weekend before his death. I hear Mexico is THE place for "dead" people who want to get away from legal problems.
And so did every doctor. In fact, I'd rather go to an ancient hospital than some random faith healer. The science may be primitive but it's better than just sitting around chanting until the con victim feels better.
Yes, the history of how Jews founded Israel is DEFINITELY not filled with "jihad" type stuff. Where are the Canaanites again?
And, yes, Christians have done the same thing too. Many civilizations have been wiped off the map thanks to Abe's theological descendants.
stvdv
Veteran Member
Interesting ! They know better, still they do that? Testing us + Teaching us DO NOT FOLLOW BLIND?
sealchan
Well-Known Member
As an American and as a Christian I too am embarrassed at some of the things that American Christianity has produced by way of theology.
The explanation of the word for God was very interesting and it highlights the fact that in Genesis we see such plays on words...but here the very word for God can be turned to its opposite with a "seeming" minor adjustment of vowels. This makes for great poetry and dynamism of language. Thus the literary qualities of a culture shine through in its word play.
And does not love and hate originate, at some level, from the same source of passion? To turn for or against a thing sometimes seems less important than to have that passion toward it in the first place. I think that anger towards God is an often dismissed pathway to a belief (through reconciliation) with God.
Christianity is at its source a Jewish religion, of course we find worth and value in Jewish theology.