What is 'Islamophobia'?

[Rival]

And does it exist at all?

IMO it is a buzzword used to silence people who voice criticisms of Islam.

We never hear of 'Christianiophobia' or 'Judeophobia' or 'Paganophobia' etc.

 

[interminable]

Explain about the collapse of building 7 in 9.11

And I will accept that islamophobia doesn't exist at all

 

[Rival]

Explain about the collapse of building 7 in 9.11

And I will accept that islamophobia doesn't exist at all

I'm not totally convinced that it was Muslims who did 9/11, but this isn't the debate.

 

[interminable]

I'm not totally convinced that it was Muslims who did 9/11, but this isn't the debate.

This not the debate???

If this is not the debate what would be then???

It's as clear as day that US exploded those building to defame Islam and put Muslims under pressure and introduce Muslims as terrorists

 

[Rival]

This not the debate???

If this is not the debate what would be then???

It's as clear as day that US exploded those building to defame Islam and put Muslims under pressure and introduce Muslims as terrorists

Muslims have been committing acts of violence since before the U.S. even existed. I want to know what people mean when they call someone an 'Islamophobe'.

 

[interminable]

Muslims have been committing acts of violence since before the U.S. even existed. I want to know what people mean when they call someone an 'Islamophobe'.

As other nations and tribes did. Violence is just in islamic countries????

History of China ,Mongolia , Europe especially Britain show clearly that violence is everywhere
But u try to say just Muslims commit violence.

Be honest please

 

[Rival]

As other nations and tribes did. Violence is just in islamic countries????

History of China ,Mongolia , Europe especially Britain show clearly that violence is everywhere
But u try to say just Muslims commit violence.

Be honest please

No, all peoples have committed violence.

But my question isn't about violence, or terrorism or anything like that. I want to know what you think 'Islamophobia' is.

 

[LuisDantas]

This not the debate???

No, it isn't.

It is not like 9/11 had no precedent or particularly changed the perception of Islaam and Muslims.

It was a sobering call and it somewhat galvanized passions, but that was it.

If this is not the debate what would be then???

It's as clear as day that US exploded those building to defame Islam and put Muslims under pressure and introduce Muslims as terrorists

Uh, it is best if you do not lie, you know.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Meaningless term, at least in my book.

Technically it refers to a 'dislike' of Islam or its adherents, but I feel more of a 'distaste', if that distinction matters.

 

[Augustus]

I don't like any of the -phobia terms for perceived prejudice - Islamophobia, xenophobia, homophaobia, etc.

Does anti-Muslim prejudice exist? Of course.

Is 'Islamophobia' used to stifle criticism and discussion, yes.

There is a systematic, and well funded (OIC, Gulf States), attempt to use the term to stifle legitimate discussion/criticism. Framing of a debate is standards PR. This is alongside individuals pursuing the same tactics or being sucked into the 'any criticism is Islamophobic' wormhole.

The flip side is that when legitimate discussion is branded Islamophobia, then people who are prejudiced have their views legitimised as they can hide behind the excuse that 'everything is Islamophabia these days'.

Overall, it is pretty useless as a word as it carries around too much baggage and discussions often end up focused on arguing over the definition, rather than discussing the topic that was originally intended. It also is unclear about whether it is focused on a person of an ideology. Better to consign it to history and use an alternative phrase like 'anti-Muslim prejudice' which is more accurate.

 

[LuisDantas]

"Islamophobia" is a wholly political construction. A meaningless word built to present criticism of Islaam as inherently unfair and unworthy of consideration.

Most people who use it seem to be literally unable of perceiving any difference between "Islamophobia" and criticism of Islaam.

 

[Laika]

And does it exist at all?

IMO it is a buzzword used to silence people who voice criticisms of Islam.

We never hear of 'Christianiophobia' or 'Judeophobia' or 'Paganophobia' etc.

Voted "meaingful term".

This reply turned out to be longer than I expected but here's a sort of rough guide to how I'd undetstand it or recognise it:

-equating "Islam" as a religion and culture with "Arab" as a race given the historical roots in the middle east and north africa. I.e. A "muslim" cannot be a white european and doesn't fit into ethno-cultural narratives about american or european identity and are an excluded "other".

-In a way the Islam-Arab equivalency falls into colonial sterotypes about the middle east being in a permanant state of victimhood by self-inflicted propensity for violence and destructiveness by virtue of following a "primitive" or "barbaric" religion. I have to concede that the belief in Islamic Reformation is often dangerously close to the "civilising mission" of imperialists to remake the region as a secular, liberal capitalism when it is imposed from outside. It can be Islamophobic in its own strange way by denying Muslims their freedom to chose if that is how they want to live because white europeans know whats best for them-particuarly when Oil is concerned.

-Treating Islam as an intrinsically violent religion responsible for terrorism and war through "jihad". The problem centres on the "intrinsic" nature of violence as something innate to the ideas rather than as one aspect of Islam among many. This treats Islam as a religion as a single monolithic bloc, that lacks diversity of opinion and is treated as by definition as incapable of reform into secular, liberal systems because its so medieval, primitive and inferior. (Describing Islam as intrinsically peaceful is arguably Islamophobic as again it denies diversity, disrespects Muslims by simplifying the history and traditions of Islam and doesn't take responsibility for when religion is a rationale or motivation for violence. obviously it doesn't carry such negative connotations. Blaming US foreign policy as solely or primarily for muslim violence is also a sort of reverse Islamophobia because it treats exclusively Muslims as helpless victims who must be saved by the west.)

-delegitimising Islam as a religion by saying it is a totalitarian ideology, or a form of "Islamo-fascism" imports and projects western moral standards about the universal nature of human rights and individual liberty as a basis of criticism of Islam. This is essentially a ******** argument that plays on the power of sensationalised nazi eqivilencies in western culture rather than as a source for rational comparisons based on historical evidence. When we don't know something- we call them nazis because that makes everyone shut up and try not to engage in "appeasement" for fear of looking weak. Its also helpful to summon the nazi comparision because we can demonise group X (in this case Muslims) as being totally evil and therefore we have no reason to actually understand them because they are pathological liars who cannot be trusted. Evidence is not necessary and suspicion is sufficient to judge an entire group of people because this evil is beyond the comprehension of our reason: i.e. "Don't read the Qu'ran! You may become infected with spiritual impurities as your mind is controlled by satan! If you read the Quran you become one of THEM!" This fails to take into account that secularism and liberalism have historical roots in Christian theology and so may not necessarily be 100% applicable. The weirdness continues when you have people frothing at the mouth about the evils of Islam despite the fact as westerners we basically share two-thirds of Islamic beliefs in the effects of jewish and Christian religions on our culture or that fascism had a close relationship with Christianity as a force for social conservativism. When all else fails- use Nazis as the measure of evil because we popuarly assume that the west's long history of christian anti-semitism or colonial genocide is totally unrelated to Nazi ideology and our moral consciences are unblemished by our such association.

-the "one line of evil" approach to reading scripture in which a single line in the Quran or the hadith is treated as a basis for condemning the whole religion because it is assumed muslims are too stupid, ignorant, oppressed, etc to think for themselves and so are incapable of having original ideas. The assumption that Islamic dictorine fossilized or written in stone from the 6th century fails to take into account the fact it was made and practied by humans. This sort of attitude is opposed to recognising Islam is a living doctorine which changes, evolves and diversifies according to new situations and contexts. So the evils of Islam in the 6th century mean its evil today because we assume Islam hasn't changed in nearly 1500 years.

Rant Over. I think I'm done now.

 

[shmogie]

Meaningless term, at least in my book.

Technically it refers to a 'dislike' of Islam or its adherents, but I feel more of a 'distaste', if that distinction matters.

A phobia is an unreasonable fear of of something. I have no fear of moslems, only utter contempt for their stone age government system pretending to be a religion, and their utter barbarianism portrayed in their "holy books", the koran and hadith, which they practice in their home country's and in host nations where the majority of them live on the taxpayers. My dog sometimes get's flea's, they irritate him, he does his best to get rid of them, he doesn't have fleaphobia

 

[Kuzcotopia]

One of the biology teachers I work with is Muslim, and wears the hijab.

I am not afraid of her. That would be stupid.

Some people are afraid of her. They want to hide behind a law to protect themselves from her.

Those cowards are called islamaphobes. Mostly they're afraid because in their podunk, sheltered line of work/life, they don't know any.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I would say it depends:
Some people really are legitimately terrified of and hateful towards Muslims. It is an illogical fear. Some people only consider what they are spoon fed about the Quran, which is probably borderline "phobia." But, what it does not do is describe those who question and criticize Islam and the Quran, but it gets used that way some times.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I think the Islamaphobia that people are afraid of is the one in the media and certain websites which inflame and incite hatred against anything to do with Islam.

It's a western sickness of the mind promoted by haters of Islam and the media. What they do is twist, distort and lie after having won people's trust that they are knowledgeable about Islam and 'warn everyone' using well placed propaganda.

But Islam is a beautiful religion. A lot of its laws were for a time when the wild tribes of Arabia roamed and there was no law and order or a way to enforce justice, as there were no jails, courts, police or constitutions etc

Most of the negative things we've been told or read about Islam or the Quran or Muhammad are deliberate manipulation of our ignorance. Most of the opponents of Islam use the same methods of interpreting the Quran as ISIS or Al Queda do. They take a couple of verses out of context using bad English translations , put them together, add some gruesome Hadiths and 'instant evil religion' that strikes fear in the heart. But it's not Islam they're telling people about and most people would never think to dig deeper to find out if they're being manipulated or not so 'instant Islamaphobia' is created much like the USA was able to lie to the entire world and the UN about WMD's being in Iraq. Almost every person on the planet was fooled and it was all a lie.

Same with Islam. People who don't take the time to look at it with their own eyes will be susceptible to being hoodwinked.

On websites like Jihad Watch and Religion of Peace I noticed they would quote verses like this from the Quran a lot...

2:191

"Kill them wherever you find them" with of course their own commentary elaborating on how evil Islam and Muslims are and usually showing a recent incident or terrorist attack.

But they never quoted the verse before it. And when I quoted it a guy was startled and said where did I get that from and I told him the Quran, the verse immediately before it......

2:190

And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice:

J M Rodwell

So it's telling Muslims not to attack first!

Then one about do not make friends with Christians is a wrong translation. In Arabic it means Muslims should not adopt the politics or morals of Christians as they might conflict with Quranuc laws so not to join a Christian clan where they might be exposed to drinking, gambling and statue worship or things against their own laws. But nowhere does it say not to make friends with Christians. In Covenants with the Christians Muhammad ordered His followers to give Christians freedom of worship and even to help build their own churches for free.

If people believe what they've read from biased historians and the media then it's their own fault if they become Islamaphobic.

On the internet there is garbage and trash mixed with truth. You have to do a lot of digging and be vigilant not to be fooled into believing this nonsense about Islam being evil or violent.

Islam is a peaceful religion with 1.7 billion beautiful peaceful people who are the majority.

 

[shmogie]

Voted "meaingful term".

This reply turned out to be longer than I expected but here's a sort of rough guide to how I'd undetstand it or recognise it:

-equating "Islam" as a religion and culture with "Arab" as a race given the historical roots in the middle east and north africa. I.e. A "muslim" cannot be a white european and doesn't fit into ethno-cultural narratives about american or european identity and are an excluded "other".

-In a way the Islam-Arab equivalency falls into colonial sterotypes about the middle east being in a permanant state of victimhood by self-inflicted propensity for violence and destructiveness by virtue of following a "primitive" or "barbaric" religion. I have to concede that the belief in Islamic Reformation is often dangerously close to the "civilising mission" of imperialists to remake the region as a secular, liberal capitalism when it is imposed from outside. It can be Islamophobic in its own strange way by denying Muslims their freedom to chose if that is how they want to live because white europeans know whats best for them-particuarly when Oil is concerned.

-Treating Islam as an intrinsically violent religion responsible for terrorism and war through "jihad". The problem centres on the "intrinsic" nature of violence as something innate to the ideas rather than as one aspect of Islam among many. This treats Islam as a religion as a single monolithic bloc, that lacks diversity of opinion and is treated as by definition as incapable of reform into secular, liberal systems because its so medieval, primitive and inferior. (Describing Islam as intrinsically peaceful is arguably Islamophobic as again it denies diversity, disrespects Muslims by simplifying the history and traditions of Islam and doesn't take responsibility for when religion is a rationale or motivation for violence. obviously it doesn't carry such negative connotations. Blaming US foreign policy as solely or primarily for muslim violence is also a sort of reverse Islamophobia because it treats exclusively Muslims as helpless victims who must be saved by the west.)

-delegitimising Islam as a religion by saying it is a totalitarian ideology, or a form of "Islamo-fascism" imports and projects western moral standards about the universal nature of human rights and individual liberty as a basis of criticism of Islam. This is essentially a ******** argument that plays on the power of sensationalised nazi eqivilencies in western culture rather than as a source for rational comparisons based on historical evidence. When we don't know something- we call them nazis because that makes everyone shut up and try not to engage in "appeasement" for fear of looking weak. Its also helpful to summon the nazi comparision because we can demonise group X (in this case Muslims) as being totally evil and therefore we have no reason to actually understand them because they are pathological liars who cannot be trusted. Evidence is not necessary and suspicion is sufficient to judge an entire group of people because this evil is beyond the comprehension of our reason: i.e. "Don't read the Qu'ran! You may become infected with spiritual impurities as your mind is controlled by satan! If you read the Quran you become one of THEM!" This fails to take into account that secularism and liberalism have historical roots in Christian theology and so may not necessarily be 100% applicable. The weirdness continues when you have people frothing at the mouth about the evils of Islam despite the fact as westerners we basically share two-thirds of Islamic beliefs in the effects of jewish and Christian religions on our culture or that fascism had a close relationship with Christianity as a force for social conservativism. When all else fails- use Nazis as the measure of evil because we popuarly assume that the west's long history of christian anti-semitism or colonial genocide is totally unrelated to Nazi ideology and our moral consciences are unblemished by our such association.

-the "one line of evil" approach to reading scripture in which a single line in the Quran or the hadith is treated as a basis for condemning the whole religion because it is assumed muslims are too stupid, ignorant, oppressed, etc to think for themselves and so are incapable of having original ideas. The assumption that Islamic dictorine fossilized or written in stone from the 6th century fails to take into account the fact it was made and practied by humans. This sort of attitude is opposed to recognising Islam is a living doctorine which changes, evolves and diversifies according to new situations and contexts. So the evils of Islam in the 6th century mean its evil today because we assume Islam hasn't changed in nearly 1500 years.

Rant Over. I think I'm done now.

Interesting rant, but I think irrelevant. In my work in the law, I dealt with facts. Causation was of some value, but actions were what counted. When dealing with islam, we must look at the facts, and related actions. Esoteric musings on reasons and relative beliefs may be interesting, but events and reality are the markers for evaluation. The "holy books" of islam, the foundations of the phenomenon, are alleged to be the bedrock principles and examples for the faithful. Every westerner should read these books. One, the alleged communications from their god to their prophet, the other, stories of their prophet by various followers. There you will find at least 109 sura's in the koran prescribing death or torture for non believers. The hadith will tell you of the prophets wars and killings, of those who wouldn't bow to him, particular fiendish punishments for captives. We also learn of his marriage to a six year old girl. Of course, he didn't have sex with her till she was nine. So this is the incubator from which islam sprung. Since it's inception, there have existed the "borders of fire". Wherever a moslem entity exists, or an islamic nation, there is continuous friction on the dividing line between it and it's non islamic neighbors a historical fact throughout history till today. In fact, the Crusades were the response of the west to a century of moslem violence. Today we see the middle east, which requires no comment from me. We also see the intransigence of imported moslems in Europe, who are offended by virtually everything in their host nations culture, refuse to adapt, adopt and assimilate, and demand that the rest of the culture accede to their demands. This is now beginning in the US, is creating major problems in Australia, and is creating civil backlash, and escalated retaliation for violence by violence in Europe, These .are the facts. Is this a condemnation of any individual believer ? no. Can they be productive peaceful fellow citizens ? yes. However, could anyone claim the France, Germany, Sweden, Norway, and Britain are are safer and happier since their policies provided open welcoming arms for millions of moslems? decidedly not. Facts are facts, historical facts are facts, no matter how we rationalize, excuse or wish otherwise.

 

[Rival]

What is wrong with those people who don't use paragraphs?

 

[Wu Wei]

And does it exist at all?

IMO it is a buzzword used to silence people who voice criticisms of Islam.

We never hear of 'Christianiophobia' or 'Judeophobia' or 'Paganophobia' etc.

Of course you don't hear Christianiophobia' because the actual term for a fear of Christianity is Christophobia but you are correct on the fear of Jewish people, it is Judeophobia

Islamophobia is Fear of Islam. and Islandophobia is Fear of Iceland, Icelandic culture...there is an actual phobia fof jsut about everyhing

Some of the cases you hear about that are labeled Islamophobia are legitimate some are sensationalized and some are uncalled for.

 

[shmogie]

I think the Islamaphobia that people are afraid of is the one in the media and certain websites which inflame and incite hatred against anything to do with Islam.

It's a western sickness of the mind promoted by haters of Islam and the media. What they do is twist, distort and lie after having won people's trust that they are knowledgeable about Islam and 'warn everyone' using well placed propaganda.

But Islam is a beautiful religion. A lot of its laws were for a time when the wild tribes of Arabia roamed and there was no law and order or a way to enforce justice, as there were no jails, courts, police or constitutions etc

Most of the negative things we've been told or read about Islam or the Quran or Muhammad are deliberate manipulation of our ignorance. Most of the opponents of Islam use the same methods of interpreting the Quran as ISIS or Al Queda do. They take a couple of verses out of context using bad English translations , put them together, add some gruesome Hadiths and 'instant evil religion' that strikes fear in the heart. But it's not Islam they're telling people about and most people would never think to dig deeper to find out if they're being manipulated or not so 'instant Islamaphobia' is created much like the USA was able to lie to the entire world and the UN about WMD's being in Iraq. Almost every person on the planet was fooled and it was all a lie.

Same with Islam. People who don't take the time to look at it with their own eyes will be susceptible to being hoodwinked.

On websites like Jihad Watch and Religion of Peace I noticed they would quote verses like this from the Quran a lot...

2:191

"Kill them wherever you find them" with of course their own commentary elaborating on how evil Islam and Muslims are and usually showing a recent incident or terrorist attack.

But they never quoted the verse before it. And when I quoted it a guy was startled and said where did I get that from and I told him the Quran, the verse immediately before it......

2:190

And fight for the cause of God against those who fight against you: but commit not the injustice of attacking them first: God loveth not such injustice:

J M Rodwell

So it's telling Muslims not to attack first!

Then one about do not make friends with Christians is a wrong translation. In Arabic it means Muslims should not adopt the politics or morals of Christians as they might conflict with Quranuc laws so not to join a Christian clan where they might be exposed to drinking, gambling and statue worship or things against their own laws. But nowhere does it say not to make friends with Christians. In Covenants with the Christians Muhammad ordered His followers to give Christians freedom of worship and even to help build their own churches for free.

If people believe what they've read from biased historians and the media then it's their own fault if they become Islamaphobic.

On the internet there is garbage and trash mixed with truth. You have to do a lot of digging and be vigilant not to be fooled into believing this nonsense about Islam being evil or violent.

Islam is a peaceful religion with 1.7 billion beautiful peaceful people who are the majority.

I have addressed islam in another post. I must however address what you call a "lie" regarding WMD's in Iraq. Here are some facts. Iraq did have a nuclear weapons program. After they were thrashed for invading Kuwait, they agreed to stop the program, allow inspections, and abide by UN policies on the issue. They did, for a while. Iraq attacked and killed men, women, and children in Kurdish villages, with WMD's, poison gas, which they were forbidden to have. They blocked all inspections of their nuclear facilities, they were in violation of 22 UN resolutions for inspections, they were in violation of the cease fire they agreed to follow to keep their country and government. They were given an ultimatum to allow inspections, or else, they once again refused. What conclusions would YOU draw from this ? BTW, WMD's, poison gas rockets and storage WERE found. There were no lie's. A lie is a lie if you know it isn't true, there was more than adequate evidence to confirm the belief that Iraq was working on or had nuclear weapons.