What is it with muslims and torture?

[Gharib]

Because torture makes you feel good...

Seriously, I am amazed at the level of thinking shown in the OP.

Surely, the people who revolted in Egypt, Tunisia, Syria and other places didn't revolt against the misuse of powers by the ruling regimes, didn't revolt against oppression and humiliation imposed by them upon their peoples, right? :sarcastic

As for Libya, it's expected for things to get out of hand because you're speaking about a country with no institutions; no army, no police, no competent judiciary system, no parliament...etc.

Looncall, what do you think of the Muslim people who revolted across the Arab world while knowing they will face torture and death as a result? What do you think of the Syrian people who insist on going out to the streets challenging death and worst kinds of torture? Who is being tortured and murdered here?

Is this what you have to say about them, calling such exceptionally courageous people "they embrace torture"? Who embrace torture except the merciless criminals of the totalitarian and corrupt regimes? And who has been tortured except the people? And who spoke up against such crimes except the people? Why were people fed up with their ruling regimes, you think? Why did they revolt? They were murdered and injured for what reason?

What kind of mind and heart do you have to make such judgment about people among whom a lot lost their lives, their eyes, their legs, endured torture, lost their loved ones just for the sake of dignity and freedom?

I am really sad that with all the sacrifices people made, and the people are being being subjected to murder, torture and siege everyday in Syria and then someone sitting on his comfortable couch thousands of kilometers away comes and says with coldness; hey why such peoples embrace torture!!

very good post sister, jazak Allah khairan

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

My bad, I thought you guys didn't notice he was canadian.

 

[nameless]

Utilitarian arguments. National security. A necessary evil, for the greater good.

better if you provide some statistics to prove 'torture based on democracy' is as common as tortures based on religion.

 

[nameless]

^ Nazis did it. So did the Russians and the Cubans under Castro.

did these people had democracy as their main ideology? sorry for my bad knowledge on history.

^ Every totalitarian government based on an ideology has had some version of this.

^ This too.

i did not know that totalitarian government is an example for democratic rule, sorry again.

And just as easily and just as often it has nothing to do with religion.

may be you are correct, but taking in account of the history of indian subcontinent it can mean something else.

When muslims became majority in pakistan after the partition, the hindu population which it was once above 25% is now only 2%. The same happened in bangladesh, also the same in kashmir and all these involved severe violence. The only thing common in here is muslims.

And one more question to you as you said ' it has nothing to do with religion',
according to sharia system, what it will be if prophet muhammad or allah is insulted?

 

[Peace]

Because torture makes you feel good...

Seriously, I am amazed at the level of thinking shown in the OP.

Surely, the people who revolted in Egypt, Tunisia, Syria and other places didn't revolt against the misuse of powers by the ruling regimes, didn't revolt against oppression and humiliation imposed by them upon their peoples, right? :sarcastic

As for Libya, it's expected for things to get out of hand because you're speaking about a country with no institutions; no army, no police, no competent judiciary system, no parliament...etc.

Looncall, what do you think of the Muslim people who revolted across the Arab world while knowing they will face torture and death as a result? What do you think of the Syrian people who insist on going out to the streets challenging death and worst kinds of torture? Who is being tortured and murdered here?

Is this what you have to say about them, calling such exceptionally courageous people "they embrace torture"? Who embrace torture except the merciless criminals of the totalitarian and corrupt regimes? And who has been tortured except the people? And who spoke up against such crimes except the people? Why were people fed up with their ruling regimes, you think? Why did they revolt? They were murdered and injured for what reason?

What kind of mind and heart do you have to make such judgment about people among whom a lot lost their lives, their eyes, their legs, endured torture, lost their loved ones just for the sake of dignity and freedom?

I am really sad that with all the sacrifices people made, and the people are being being subjected to murder, torture and siege everyday in Syria and then someone sitting on his comfortable couch thousands of kilometers away comes and says with coldness; hey why such peoples embrace torture!!

Excellent post sister!!
Plus, such regimes that torture people in the Muslim countries don't practice Islam in the first place.

 

[Nooj]

better if you provide some statistics to prove 'torture based on democracy' is as common as tortures based on religion.

Why should I? You asked this:

persecuting the homosexuals, stoning to death for adultery, persecuting non-believers and forced conversion has something to do with religion, at least those torturers finds justification for torture from their faith. But how can a torturer in a democratic state could get justification for torture from democracy?

I answered.

 

[nameless]

Why should I? You asked this:



I answered.

Thank you ..
if such tortures are that much rare then it is not eligible to be compared with other tortures.

 

[sandandfoam]

I'm calling it.
Given that there are over 2 billion Muslims in the world any satement that opens 'What is it with Muslims....' has to be viewed as meaningless.
I believe that the purpose here is to present 'Muslims' as somehow inferior and deserving of the crappy governments and endless meddling imposed upon them by 'the West'.
This is insidious, vile and contemptible.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Looncall,

What is it with muslims and torture?

Sorry personally do not differentiate people because they follow a path which may not be following but that we are all BEINGS and Humans is a consideration.
Understand that Humans evolved and evolution of humans are from animals and so many humans still cling on to animalistic instincts and so these types of behaviour still are found amongst humans be they living in any parts of the world.
When more of the same kinds live in an area the behaviour pattern confirms to that pattern like animals lives in herds and behave similarly so do humans and so it is also termed as CULTURE.

Love & rgds

 

[cablescavenger]

Torture is illegal under various different parts of international law, the only reason this is under discussion is because International Law is not enforced.

 

[Looncall]

Because torture makes you feel good...

Seriously, I am amazed at the level of thinking shown in the OP.

Surely, the people who revolted in Egypt, Tunisia, Syria and other places didn't revolt against the misuse of powers by the ruling regimes, didn't revolt against oppression and humiliation imposed by them upon their peoples, right? :sarcastic

As for Libya, it's expected for things to get out of hand because you're speaking about a country with no institutions; no army, no police, no competent judiciary system, no parliament...etc.

Looncall, what do you think of the Muslim people who revolted across the Arab world while knowing they will face torture and death as a result? What do you think of the Syrian people who insist on going out to the streets challenging death and worst kinds of torture? Who is being tortured and murdered here?

Is this what you have to say about them, calling such exceptionally courageous people "they embrace torture"? Who embrace torture except the merciless criminals of the totalitarian and corrupt regimes? And who has been tortured except the people? And who spoke up against such crimes except the people? Why were people fed up with their ruling regimes, you think? Why did they revolt? They were murdered and injured for what reason?

What kind of mind and heart do you have to make such judgment about people among whom a lot lost their lives, their eyes, their legs, endured torture, lost their loved ones just for the sake of dignity and freedom?

I am really sad that with all the sacrifices people made, and the people are being being subjected to murder, torture and siege everyday in Syria and then someone sitting on his comfortable couch thousands of kilometers away comes and says with coldness; hey why such peoples embrace torture!!

For the record I greatly admire the people who are rebelling in the Arab Spring. I consider them to be heroes.

The acid test, though, will be what they make of their freedoms once they win them. If they establish free and equitable societies free of torture, I will be delighted. So far we have an example in Libya that bodes ill. Let's see what happens.

 

[Looncall]

Torture is not an Islamic thing, its a human thing. Torture has been a long standing human tradition and its often the female gender that excells at the practice.

Judge delays ruling in Calgary torture case | CTV News
The Tribune, Chandigarh, India - Main News
Torture, kidnap reports meet defiance from China - Bikya Masr
Update: Suspect charged with torture in death of girl - Taft, CA - Taft Midway Driller

And that was just a quick google search. So, to answer your question, "What is it with Muslims and torture?" They are human and therefore have examples of the worst of us within their community. I'm sure they would like us to judge them according to the best rather than the worst, much like we would.

I agree that individual instances occur all over the place. What does not occur everywhere is institutionalized torture, where it is applied as a matter of course. It seems to be particularly common in enthusiastically islamic places like Afghanistan. I would like to know why.

 

[fishy]

I think Dick Chaney was and is fairly big on torture. But then again if satan exists then Chaney may be him. :yes:

 

[Gharib]

I think Dick Chaney was and is fairly big on torture. But then again if satan exists then Chaney may be him. :yes:

the US is quite big on torture, how many innocent civilians are held in guantanamo having not been convicted of any crime but are being tortured severely?

 

[sandandfoam]

the US is quite big on torture, how many innocent civilians are held in guantanamo having not been convicted of any crime but are being tortured severely?

I fear that's the point of this disturbing op eselam - you call them innocent civilians but from another point of view they're Muslims. They're somehow less human. Just look at how their countries are run..................

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I agree that individual instances occur all over the place. What does not occur everywhere is institutionalized torture, where it is applied as a matter of course. It seems to be particularly common in enthusiastically islamic places like Afghanistan. I would like to know why.

For that you have to look for cultural roots which can go much further back than religious ones. You point out Afghanistan. Torture was a part of their culture long before they became Muslims and the roots to how they use torture today go back to that, not Islam. Just ask Alexander the Great.

It appears as though you want Islam to be the cause therefore you are looking for only evidence that will support your desired outcome.

 

[Quagmire]

did these people had democracy as their main ideology? sorry for my bad knowledge on history.

No, but in the post I responded to you seemed to be implying that the list of behaviors and practices you presented was specific to theocracies. I was showing you that, no, it isn't.

i did not know that totalitarian government is an example for democratic rule, sorry again.

Actually, Hitler was put in power by popular support as much as anything else.

may be you are correct, but taking in account of the history of indian subcontinent it can mean something else.

Which is why I said "just as easily and just as often" not "instead of".

When muslims became majority in pakistan after the partition, the hindu population which it was once above 15% is now only 2%. The same happened in bangladesh, also the same in kashmir and all these involved severe violence. The only thing common in here is muslims.

And one more question to you as you said ' it has nothing to do with religion',
according to sharia system, what it will be if prophet muhammad or allah is insulted?

What I said was: "Just as easily and just as often it has nothing to do with religion, not that what's going on in Islamic theocracies has nothing to do with religion. Do me a favor: if you're going to "quote" me, use the quote button, and include the entire quote. Don't grab a portion of the quote and apply it to something I didn't apply it to myself.

 

[nameless]

No, but in the post I responded to you seemed to be implying that the list of behaviors and practices you presented was specific to theocracies. I was showing you that, no, it isn't.

no, i did not mean that, i was actually responding to one of stephen's post about 'torture in democratic states'.

What I said was: "Just as easily and just as often it has nothing to do with religion, not that what's going on in Islamic theocracies has nothing to do with religion. Do me a favor: if you're going to "quote" me, use the quote button, and include the entire quote. Don't grab a portion of the quote and apply it to something I didn't apply it to myself.

Please accept my apologies for that. I misunderstood you, it was not intentional.

 

[Quagmire]

no, i did not mean that, i was actually responding to one of stephen's post about 'torture in democratic states'.



Please accept my apologies for that. I misunderstood you, it was not intentional.

Didn't think it was, nameless.

I just decided to go ahead and over-react just in case.

 

[nameless]

For that you have to look for cultural roots which can go much further back than religious ones. You point out Afghanistan. Torture was a part of their culture long before they became Muslims and the roots to how they use torture today go back to that, not Islam. Just ask Alexander the Great.

Should we ask Alexander the Great for the brutal genocide of hindus in bangladesh too?
Bangladesh Massacre, 1971, est. 3,000,000 largely Hindus, ethnically "cleansed", 200,000+ rapes.

Time reported a high ranking U.S. official as saying "It is the most incredible, calculated thing since the days of the Nazis in Poland."

Spoiler: genocide