Thief
Rogue Theologian
volition
look for the volition
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What is life?
- Thread starter Sonofason
- Start date
look for the volition
Thief
Rogue Theologian
yeah...but the interaction in the after life does not rely on chemistry
OurCreed
There is no God but Allah
Perhaps. I don't know much of the Bible's views on there being a life before the life we have now on earth.
Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
Thief
Rogue Theologian
for now....you are in that body and there you will stay.
if you follow your body into the ground....eternal darkness is yours
to continue on....you must renounce the flesh
dead men do not speak or write
they do not hear nor read
if there is communication after that last breath...
it will be directly mind to mind....heart to heart
you will be naked (so to speak)
you cannot hide what you really are.
and so it is written....
whatever was done in secret shall be made known
Marsh
Active Member
"Let there be light," and then there was light. "Let there be life in the oceans," and there was life in the oceans; that's like magic.The type of language used when Adam was created employed a different vocabulary, the same vocabulary (I have read) that the Hebrew language uses to describe the work of a potter at his wheel. The spoken word simply pops things into existence, the last is more of a physical activity and speaks, I think, to the importance of Man to God. I do, however, agree with you. If there is a God it looks as though he used the evolutionary process to get the job done.
Even if God used some evolutionary process in lower life forms, according to Scripture Not for higher life such as humans.
Adam was made from the dust of the ground. Adam did Not come to life until God breathed the ' breath of life ' into life-less Adam - Genesis 2:7
At his death Adam simply ' returned ' to the dust of the ground - Genesis 3:19
A person can Not ' return ' to a place he never was before, so Adam went from non-life, to life, and went back returning to non-life.
Oh Boy! An undetectable life force, originating in a deity that cannot be verified...
Yep! You've convinced me! Why look for any evidence when pure unadulterated reason, untroubled by any mere observation or testing, can get you to the conclusion you wanted all along? Don't let any facts get in the way!
Well, I'm done here; I made the mistake of thinking you really wanted to discuss the nature of life, when all you really wanted was to come up with something to reinforce your already-existing belief.
Does life come from non-life ?________
Isn't energy a detectable active force ?_______
Even the universe did Not come from nothing.
According to Scripture, it was God who supplied the needed ' power and strength ' ( His abundant dynamic energy ) to create the material realm of existence for us.
- Isaiah 40:26; Jeremiah 10:12; Jeremiah 27:5; Jeremiah 32:17
You'll excuse me if I don't accept your scripture as anything more reliable than the current "scientific" speculations about what was going on "before" the big bang or "outside" of our universe.
We all have the free-will privilege to accept or reject any teaching. I just want you to know what the Bible really teaches about the subject at hand.
It does sound as if you do accept there was a named ' big bang ' start to the universe.
That start of beginning is in harmony with Scripture. So, maybe we have some common ground.
I'm not so sure about free will. And I'm very familiar with several different versions of the bible and the issues of translations, and so on. The bible is a set of writings, it does not "teach;" people who read and interpret the bible "teach" what they think it means. The Bible contains information reflecting the views of some people who lived long ago and far away and who may or may not have had any particular insight into the world and its functioning. There were lots of other people who wrote things down over the last several thousand years in many different cultures, and so far not much of it stands up to physical understanding. Philosophy and ethics may be other matters entirely, though.
I accept that scientists who have studied the universe have come up with a theory to fit observations that suggests that our cosmos came into being in a sudden unfolding about 13.8 billion years ago--but before that point...and maybe even somewhere to this side of that point--the laws of physics break down and those scientists are speculating about anything before or outside. There are, of course, other theories that could be advanced to explain the observations of the cosmos, but so far, the so called Steady-State and Oscillating Universe models, the only two significant alternatives, aren't consistent with the observations. But who knows what future observations and insights will bring.
You may accept that the "big bang" and the creation story in Genesis are compatible, but I don't. Some versions of the Genesis story are poetic, and some may have metaphorical value, but I find them useless as physical descriptions, and I see no reason to accept the cosmology that is presented in the Bible...or any other ancient tradition.
You think it comes from life?
Obviously not. One is measured in joules-meters, the other only in joules.
For the simple reason that it does not need to "come" from somewhere.
Well, if Scriptures say that, it must be true
Ciao
- viole
Marsh
Active Member
Did you catch my point about the chimp outperforming every human he went up against in the memory test? More recently I heard there is now evidence chimps mourn the loss of family and friends. Do you think God might have breathed life into them as well, but it just didn't get mentioned?
It is probably just because I am an atheist that none of this seems plausible to me. Science provides so many more answers. It doesn't bother you that you are rubbing shoulders with the intellectual currents of the Bronze Age?URAVIP2ME said:
Yes, God could have ' breathed the breath of life ' into chimps. I have even heard of a bear caught in a trap and another bear staying with it. The other bear had tears in its eyes.
Also, we know of birds mating for life, etc.
How does science prove for certainty that life ever came from non-life ?
The Bible claims God as its Author - 2 Timothy 3:16-17; Psalms 90:2
That means God was around before the intellectual currents of the Bronze Age.
Can it be proven there is No God, if not, then one exercises faith in the non-existence of God.
I thought it was insightful of Antony Flew to observe that there are evils in abundance which could Not be put down to a consequence of human sin. ( that matches Scripture )
Doesn't today's violence baffle the experts ? Because even though poorer neighborhoods are often higher-crime areas, is it because those people are more violent, or is it because they suffer more violence ? Perhaps it's because of a lack of good law enforcement ? Yet, aren't there millions living in poverty such as in Calcutta which I think still has one of the world's lowest murder rates ?____ Other experts have the theory that readily-available guns makes society more violent or dangerous, yet why do some societies have a higher proportion of violent people, and the experts can't agree nor come to a conclusion. On the other hand, the Bible makes clear why we have today's violence - 2 Timothy 3:1-3; 2 Timothy 3:4-5; 2 Timothy 3:13 <- those verses describe the selfish distorted form of love that the world now displays, which is the opposite of the definition of love as defined at 1 Corinthians 13:4-6.
Is there anything ' Bronze Age ' about the new commandment Jesus gave at John 13:34-35 to have self-sacrificing love for others as he did ?
psychoslice
Veteran Member
For me personally, I think its sad if we have to ask the question of what is life, its means that you are not living your life, there is no reason, life itself is all the reason we need......so enjoy.
Runewolf1973
Materialism/Animism
I don't see how questioning what life is means that you are not living life. I question everything and I find it quite rewarding.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Your one in a million.
Marsh
Active Member
I don't believe bears have tear ducts. This story is probably false. Did you think of that?
Science has not yet demonstrated how life originated, but I'd guess it was some sort of bio-chemical reaction. You can assign a supernatural event if you want. Just remember you don't have any real proof. We are both just guessing.URAVIP2ME said:
Yes, I'd agree that belief in God existed prior to the Bronze Age, though probably this God was different from the one people today believe exists.URAVIP2ME said:
There is not much value in quoting the Bible to an atheist, my friend, we don't give the passages the same weight as you do. When you make a claim for the existence of God based upon a biblical passage, all you are doing is telling me what the author of those passages you selected believed about God. You are not providing evidence for the actual existence of a supernatural being.
You are telling me Anthony Flew believed evil could not be explained away by recourse to original sin? What does this mean to you?URAVIP2ME said:
I would say it much depends on who you are talking about. Atheist think the evil we see in the world perfectly fits with the notion that God does not exist.URAVIP2ME said:
I would say cultural violence is hugely important as well. There are all kinds of reasons violence is perpetrated. There is no one explanation.URAVIP2ME said:
The letters Paul wrote were read in churches of his own time, as sermons. What would be the value to his parishioners to talk about a time nearly two millennia in the future?URAVIP2ME said:
You misunderstand. My message to those who accept the Genesis creation account is a reminder that they are reading a Bronze Age account of the creation of the world. These people believed in a flat earth that was essentially perceived as something akin to a snow globe. Jesus was not living in the Bronze Age and the Christian message must be recognized as something new.URAVIP2ME said:
Marsh-
Did you conclude that the Bible teaches a flat Earth ?_____
Job 22:14 teaches about the vault or circuit of the heavens. The Hebrew word chug/hhug is Not talking pancake.
Scripture teaches the Earth hangs upon nothing - Job 26:7 - It does Not teach the back of a turtle, elephant, etc.
So, what the Bible really teaches is laws govern the heavens - Job 38:31-32
What Jesus taught did Not contradict the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Yes, Antony Flew apparently concluded that more than human sin is responsible for what is going on in the world today.
Did you conclude that the Bible teaches a flat Earth ?_____
Job 22:14 teaches about the vault or circuit of the heavens. The Hebrew word chug/hhug is Not talking pancake.
Scripture teaches the Earth hangs upon nothing - Job 26:7 - It does Not teach the back of a turtle, elephant, etc.
So, what the Bible really teaches is laws govern the heavens - Job 38:31-32
What Jesus taught did Not contradict the old Hebrew Scriptures.
Yes, Antony Flew apparently concluded that more than human sin is responsible for what is going on in the world today.