What is life?

[Runewolf1973]

What I am getting at here is that you had said that life does not really exist. And now you suggest that not everything is as conscious as us because we are highly complex beings. However, that is what the definition of life is. It does exist, because we have drawn the line in the sand as to what life is, or rather what sorts of complex beings are actually alive. What life actually is, is the question. I am perfectly fine doing away with the term life, as it is indeed as you say just a word that we use to distinguish one set of molecular interactions with another. If it is fair to draw such a line, then life does exist, and we defined it. If it is not fair to draw the line, then we can say that either everything is alive to some degree, or nothing is alive and we're being petty making such distinctions.

Everything is interactive. That is the important part. Everything else...life, death, consciousness...are all just labels used to categorize different manifestations of the same thing...interaction. It is fundamental, hence we have the Fundamental Interactions, the basis for everything that we know to exist in the universe.

 

[Sonofason]

Everything is interactive. That is the important part. Everything else...life, death, consciousness...are all just labels used to categorize different manifestations of the same thing...interaction. It is fundamental, hence we have the Fundamental Interactions, the basis for everything that we know to exist in the universe.

Okay, so we have these fundamental interactions which are the basis for everything that we know to exist in the universe. Well, what causes those fundamental interactions to exist? I understand that all interactions are a result of forces. Without applied forces, nothing happens, which is exactly what we had existing prior to the Big Bang, a single entity we like to call a singularity not interacting with anything else. Please tell me what the force was that caused that single dimensionless chunk of nothing to begin interacting with itself. Did gravity cause it? Was it the weak force? What caused the Big Bang? You can I'm sure suggest various theories. I'll give you mine. God interacted with it, and it became something. In fact God interacted with it, and it became everything. What force would He have had to employ to do that?

 

[Runewolf1973]

Obviously, you are not a single celled life form. I am quite certain that a single celled organism is as conscious as it needs to be or perhaps can be considering its state of interaction with other entities in its surrounding environment. It is highly conscious I would suppose compared to a single atom. And perhaps a single atom is highly conscious when compared to a photon. You are a human being, definately more complex than single atoms and single celled organisms. Try not comparing everything to yourself, and you will see that all things are conscious of themselves and those entities that influence them in their environments. We are all completely conscious until for some reason or cause we become less conscious than we were, such as when a person falls asleep, gets wacked in the head, or even dies.

It is all interaction. An atom is not conscious, it is interactive. A human is highly interactive...a state which can be called "conscious" fair enough, but ultimately a human is just a bigger pile of non-conscious atoms interacting in a complex manner.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Okay, so we have these fundamental interactions which are the basis for everything that we know to exist in the universe. Well, what causes those fundamental interactions to exist? I understand that all interactions are a result of forces. Without applied forces, nothing happens, which is exactly what we had existing prior to the Big Bang, a single entity we like to call a singularity not interacting with anything else. Please tell me what the force was that caused that single dimensionless chunk of nothing to begin interacting with itself. Did gravity cause it? Was it the weak force? What caused the Big Bang? You can I'm sure suggest various theories. I'll give you mine. God interacted with it, and it became something. In fact God interacted with it, and it became everything. What force would He have had to employ to do that?

I don't believe humans (myself included) are intelligent enough to answer this, so some of us devise our own imaginary "creators" to fill a void that we otherwise just cannot fill. Science does not have the answer to this either and I prefer simply not knowing over just "filling in the blanks" with religion. I am certain that as we continue to evolve and as humans get smarter over time, we may at some point answer this greatest of all questions.

 

[idav]

The fact is that we do not know exactly where life comes from.

Actually because of evolution, biology and paleontology, to name a few, we can say with great certainty that life hasn't always existed on this planet and that it gradually became more complex. The whole universe evolved like that, gradually getting more complex as the elements came into existence, then water, then life, etc. Why do we need to know exactly. We can easily draw the line by defining whether the sun is life or non-life, whether the earth is life or non-life.

 

[Sonofason]

I don't believe humans (myself included) are intelligent enough to answer this, so some of us devise our own imaginary "creators" to fill a void that we otherwise just cannot fill. Science does not have the answer to this either and I prefer simply not knowing over just "filling in the blanks" with religion. I am certain that as we continue to evolve and as humans get smarter over time, we may at some point answer this greatest of all questions.

Okay, fair enough. But filling in the blanks is what science is all about. We develop a theory, and we try to test that theory. In this case, my theory (along with many other highly reasonable people) is very hard to test, and so very hard to prove true. If someone can show a better theory, I'm all ears. For now God is the most reasonable explanation I've seen.


(edited to remove undesired unintended double quoting of your post)

 

[Sonofason]

Actually because of evolution, biology and paleontology, to name a few, we can say with great certainty that life hasn't always existed on this planet and that it gradually became more complex. The whole universe evolved like that, gradually getting more complex as the elements came into existence, then water, then life, etc. Why do we need to know exactly. We can easily draw the line by defining whether the sun is life or non-life, whether the earth is life or non-life.

You're right, life as we know it, as we have defined it up to this date has not always existed on this planet. And the Bible confirms this for us. The earth was formed long before life began. And as far as we can tell, life forms, (not life) have become more and more complex. The Bible confirms this as well.

Surely, you are right again. We can draw the line where ever we choose. And we will also find that we all do not draw the same lines in the same places, and that may be why you and I are here. Us drawing lines in different places makes for good, howbeit sometimes frustrating discussion.

 

[Runewolf1973]

I see that you are holding fast to the notion that life and con

Okay, fair enough. But filling in the blanks is what science is all about. We develop a theory, and we try to test that theory. In this case, my theory (along with many other highly reasonable people) is very hard to test, and so very hard to prove true. If someone can show a better theory, I'm all ears. For now God is the most reasonable explanation I've seen.

I prefer the scientific method because a theory is not just "thrown out there", it is actually tested and repeated and verified. What you have is not a theory, it is a belief.

 

[Sonofason]

I prefer the scientific method because a theory is not just "thrown out there", it is actually tested and repeated and verified. What you have is not a theory, it is a belief.

Okay then perhaps you can tell me of a few Big Bang theories that explain the origin of the Big Bang that have been tested and repeated and verified. I am quite sure that there are scientific theories regarding the matter, and they are not tested, they are not repeated and they are not verified. Indeed every single Big Bang theory is nothing more than a belief, beliefs coming from so-called scientists.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Okay then perhaps you can tell me of a few Big Bang theories that explain the origin of the Big Bang that have been tested and repeated and verified. I am quite sure that there are scientific theories regarding the matter, and they are not tested, they are not repeated and they are not verified. Indeed every single Big Bang theory is nothing more than a belief, beliefs coming from so-called scientists.

I don't think the Big Bang theory was ever intended to explain where everything came from, rather it was to prove that such an event did indeed happen based on the evidence of an expanding universe.

 

[idav]

You're right, life as we know it, as we have defined it up to this date has not always existed on this planet. And the Bible confirms this for us. The earth was formed long before life began. And as far as we can tell, life forms, (not life) have become more and more complex. The Bible confirms this as well.

Surely, you are right again. We can draw the line where ever we choose. And we will also find that we all do not draw the same lines in the same places, and that may be why you and I are here. Us drawing lines in different places makes for good, howbeit sometimes frustrating discussion.

Of course, the bible, not too far off if you take the days to equal millions of years. It goes through the stages, first plants then water creatures then humans etc.

Aside from the bible my point is science shows that eventually life came about from non-life but it was a gradual change.

Like trying to determine when blue ends and purple begins, sometimes its either. See below is the wavelenght of 450 blue or purple.
purple 380–450 nm
blue 450–495 nm

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Of course it does.
"The Biblical picture is clearly geocentric. The earth has the shape of a flat disc so that if one were able to travel far enough, one would eventually arrive at the ‘ends of the earth’"/

ArtieE, I was Not talking about what men say the Bible says, but what does the Bible really teach about the Earth. Earth is an oblate spheroid.
Directions of North, East, West and South are often referred to as corners of the Earth, but we know that is Not literal. NEWS about the farthest corners of Earth.

Doesn't Job 26:7 say: Earth hangs upon nothing ? ________ Some men taught elephants hold up Earth or a giant turtle, etc. but that does Not make the Bible as wrong, but men wrong.
Doesn't Job chapter 38 talk of the laws that govern the heavens including the constellations ?_________ -> Job 38:31-32; Job 9:7-9
Doesn't Job 22:14 talk of the circuit of the heavens ( vault ) which is Not flat.
The Hebrew word chug/hhug used there is Not meaning flat. We get in English the derived word ' rotund ' which does Not mean flat . The Rotunda is Not a flat building.
At any age men could look up and see the moon's shadow was Not flat.
So, saying the ends of the earth is Not falling off a flat disc, but as used at Acts of the Apostles 1:8 mentions carrying God's Word ( Bible ) extensively though out the Earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I don't think the Big Bang theory was ever intended to explain where everything came from, rather it was to prove that such an event did indeed happen based on the evidence of an expanding universe.

Yes an expanding universe as Scripture mentions a stretching out of the heavens - Zechariah 12:1; Isaiah 40:22; Isaiah 42:5; Isaiah 44:24; Isaiah 51:13; Job 26:7; Psalms 104:2
So, according to Scripture, God's ' Power and Strength ' started that expanding or stretching out event.- Isaiah 40:26; Jeremiah 10:12; 27:5; 32:17

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Okay then perhaps you can tell me of a few Big Bang theories that explain the origin of the Big Bang that have been tested and repeated and verified. I am quite sure that there are scientific theories regarding the matter, and they are not tested, they are not repeated and they are not verified. Indeed every single Big Bang theory is nothing more than a belief, beliefs coming from so-called scientists.

Doesn't the Big Bang theory indicate the Universe had a beginning ?______
Doesn't Genesis 1:1 also indicate the Universe (our heavens) had a beginning ?__________
' In the beginning' would indicate a starting point.
Now, as to what supplied the 'bang' some people say nothing, but Scripture indicates God created our material universe through His Power and Strength - Isaiah 40:26
In other words, God supplied the abundantly needed dynamic energy ( power and strength ) to bring about the material/physical realm of existence.- Jeremiah 32:17; 10:12; 27:5

 

[Johannes Olavi Järvinen]

Life is gods and goddesses gift to humans and animals so animals and humans can have amazing spiritual journey. Some lifes are really long. Some are really sort. All lifes are actually really amazing and wondeful even if humans dont always see that way. Myself i see life always as a gift even if i am bored or sad. If i see something sad i pray and try to hope good for everybody. When i look to nature or life in my eyes i see something very cool, very amazing, very wondeful, something i cant say in any words because its made from psykedelic rock or psytrance or something. Life is very weird and amazing. That is why i love life so much i still eat meat because death is part of life on earth. God wanted it that way.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Doesn't the Big Bang theory indicate the Universe had a beginning ?______
Doesn't Genesis 1:1 also indicate the Universe (our heavens) had a beginning ?__________
' In the beginning' would indicate a starting point.
Now, as to what supplied the 'bang' some people say nothing, but Scripture indicates God created our material universe through His Power and Strength - Isaiah 40:26
In other words, God supplied the abundantly needed dynamic energy ( power and strength ) to bring about the material/physical realm of existence.- Jeremiah 32:17; 10:12; 27:5

Specifically what caused the Big Bang to occur? It was caused by an interaction of sorts.

 

[Sonofason]

Of course, the bible, not too far off if you take the days to equal millions of years. It goes through the stages, first plants then water creatures then humans etc.

Aside from the bible my point is science shows that eventually life came about from non-life but it was a gradual change.

Like trying to determine when blue ends and purple begins, sometimes its either. See below is the wavelenght of 450 blue or purple.
purple 380–450 nm
blue 450–495 nm

With regard to the Bible, I do not believe it is actually necessary to take the days to equal millions of years, but in a sense, that is what I would be doing. But I do not have to manipulate what a day is, nor do I need to manipulate what the morning and evening of a day is in order to achieve that.

day:
- a period of opportunity or prominence
- an era of existence or influence
- the interval of light between two successive nights
- a time of light
Day - definition of Day by The Free Dictionary

My friend, "God is Light". When God is present, it is as day. When he is not, it is as night. While God is present and creating it is day. When he steps back to see what He has made, it is night.

morning - The first or early part; the beginning
morning - definition of morning by The Free Dictionary

evening - A later period or time
evening - definition of evening by The Free Dictionary

Every time God was present it was day. When He was beginning His work for the day, it was morning. When He was finishing with His work for the day, it was evening. And God saw that it was good. "...And the evening and the morning were the first day." (Genesis 1:5)

 

[Sonofason]

I don't think the Big Bang theory was ever intended to explain where everything came from, rather it was to prove that such an event did indeed happen based on the evidence of an expanding universe.

Well, you're right that the Big Bang theory was not intended to explain how the Big Bang got its start, and you're right that it was intended to show that all matter of the universe emanated from a single point and resulted in this expanding universe we exist in today. I think Paul Sutter, Astrophysicist described the science's understanding of what we actually understand about the Big Bang. He said,

"Earlier than 10^-36 seconds, we simply don't understand the nature of the universe. The Big Bang theory is fantastic at describing everything after that, but before it, we're a bit lost. Get this: At small enough scales, we don't even know if the word "before" even makes sense! At incredibly tiny scales (and I'm talking tinier than the tiniest thing you could possible imagine), the quantum nature of reality rears its ugly head at full strength, rendering our neat, orderly, friendly spacetime into a broken jungle gym of loops and tangles and rusty spikes. Notions of intervals in time or space don't really apply at those scales. Who knows what's going on?

There are, of course, some ideas out there — models that attempt to describe what "ignited" or "seeded" the Big Bang, but at this stage, they're pure speculation."
(http://www.space.com/31192-what-triggered-the-big-bang.html)

The first thing that emanated from the Big Bang was light. Perhaps not light of the visible spectrum, but it was light. I believe if one were to investigate this, they would find that to be the consensus among all scientists advocating the Big Bang theory. While there are ideas (theories) and models that some have provided to explain the cause of the big bang, and all of it is pure speculation.

However, I've got a tiny little book, written by some ancient goat herder, stating that in the beginning God said, "let there be light". And by God there was light. Boom. So here we have perhaps the earliest known untested theory concerning the origin of the universe, and it just so happened to be correct. And this goat herder with his archaic ideas even has a viable cause for why the Big Bang happened. Honestly, it puts modern science to shame.

 

[Marsh]

I did not mean to neglect your post here.

I know how time consuming it can be to keep up to the the posts. Not to worry.

You know, sometimes archaic is better. Consider looking up the meanings of words that were used by those archaic Bronze Age men. Surely, you'd want to consider definitions that today are considered archaic. It may also be true that those archaic people, especially those who wrote under the inspiration of God, were indeed more knowledgeable with regard to those things they wrote about. Sometimes the beauty of a flower is more important, and more relevant than all of the understanding one might gain by dissecting it into little tiny pieces.

Except, I was really only talking about geology and astronomy. Genesis doesn't use those terms, of course, as those sciences clearly did not exist in the Bronze Age, but the formation of the stars, Sun, Moon, and Earth, can only be understood though modern study. Genesis has nothing to offer in that regard except myth.

And, by the way, do you know why the planets are not given mention in the creation account? It is because the planets figured prominently in Canaanite religion and the priestly authors of Genesis wanted to avoid any mention of them. Interesting, eh? At least that is one hypothesis. Had you ever wondered why the planets never received mention in Genesis? I had always wondered about that, and about the absence of dinosaurs brought before Adam.

Oh, and there was an Adam in Canaanite mythology as well. I was astounded to learn that. He did battle against the serpent in the garden of the gods. The serpent was trying to destroy the Tree of Life. That Tree provided the fruit that gave the gods their immortality. I’d always wondered why God had placed such an important food in the garden if he didn’t want Adam to consume it? Why give it such a prominent place? In the Canaanite story, however, Adam is himself a god and more or less sacrifices himself to save the Tree of Life. During this selfless act he is bitten, poisoned, and nearly dies. The poison zaps him of his immortality, but the Tree at least is saved. As a reward El makes Adam a wife and allows them to live the rest of their days in the garden where Adam takes the role of grounds keeper. His wife is not named in the account, perhaps because that part of the story has been lost. I am not certain, but I think Adam and his wife are the first people in the world. This all sheds new light on the Garden of Eden story and tells us we are the descendants of the gods.

 

[Sonofason]

Life is gods and goddesses gift to humans and animals so animals and humans can have amazing spiritual journey. Some lifes are really long. Some are really sort. All lifes are actually really amazing and wondeful even if humans dont always see that way. Myself i see life always as a gift even if i am bored or sad. If i see something sad i pray and try to hope good for everybody. When i look to nature or life in my eyes i see something very cool, very amazing, very wondeful, something i cant say in any words because its made from psykedelic rock or psytrance or something. Life is very weird and amazing. That is why i love life so much i still eat meat because death is part of life on earth. God wanted it that way.

Amen, and thanks for bringing us back to a meaningful understanding of what life is.