Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
I don't need "Proof"....I'll settle for evidence that the people mentioned in the book existed and were know by the natives (Indians)...because so far there is nothing...
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
What is odd about the Book of Mormon?
- Thread starter LittleNipper
- Start date
- Status
I don't need "Proof"....I'll settle for evidence that the people mentioned in the book existed and were know by the natives (Indians)...because so far there is nothing...
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
The bigger question is, is anybody even listening to anybody else? Humanistheart, surely you must realize that debates such as this one have been taking place on RF long before you ever showed up. If RF is still around ten years from now, dozens more debates just like this one will have taken place. At any given time, there is probably at least one thread on RF in which somebody is trying to disprove Mormonism, and by the time twenty or so posts have been made, that thread will be going exactly where this one is going -- around in circles. Nobody wins these debates, whether they last for 100 posts or 1000. It gets to where one side eventually just gets tired of responding. It's not a matter of giving up trying to defend the Book of Mormon or trying to disprove the Book of Mormon. Sooner or later, most of us just decide that it's not worth the time it takes to post. There is a point to some debates, but not to this one. The person who posts last might pat himself on the back and declare that his side has won, but regardless of which side that is, all he is proving is that he is more stubborn than anybody else.
OK. You deny it. So what? You haven't met any, yet about half my local congregation are converts. Where does that leave us?
And I repeat - LDS are no more or less brainwashed than you are. We are all the products or our experiences.
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
Not if that's the message he wants to convey to you. We're all individuals and he has a plan for each of us.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
I disagree. I think people learn a lot from debates. My experience is that eventually most of the BoM debates devolve into Mormons saying, "Well, true no evidence for X, Y, Z has yet been found, but I have faith that one day it will." (Or this variation: The fact that we've never found evidence of X, Y and Z doesn't mean that there is no X, Y, or Z.) True, it would be a lot more efficient if they would admit there's no evidence right up front, but it's still helpful to see that's where they end up.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
With a big math mystery. If half of Mormons are converts, and the net growth is zero, are Mormons deconverting in droves?
That's too vague. Of course we're all the products of our experiences and genetics. That doesn't mean that all of our experiences include having the people we trust most and depend on for our lives telling us over and over that our eternal salvation depends on clinging to a belief system regardless of the evidence, way before we're old enough to evaluate that information. If some parents tell their kids that no one knows, and it's up to them to figure out for themselves (as I tell mine) those kids are not brainwashed to the same degree.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
Wow, that's a logic box you can't break out of. If I pray earnestly and hear nothing, that's consistent with they hypothesis that God exists. Just wow.
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
So you're brainwashing them that no one knows. It's that same thing just a different view point.
I'm just saying that I personally believe that God has a plan for every person. I don't believe that God wants everyone to be Mormon. A natural extension of that is that God may want some people to be atheist.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
No, it's not. First, I'm not telling them the answer. Second, I don't make them chant this ritualistically. I don't gather them together in a community to chant and sing it in a communal ritual once a week. I don't have them say it before meals. I don't tell them that their eternal salvation depends on them agreeing with me. I don't tell them it's crucial that they cling to this belief no matter how much the evidence seems to the contrary.
I'm finding it interesting how people raised in a brainwashing situation now try to deny that any such thing exists. It does. And pounding a fear-based belief into the minds of your dependent children is brainwashing.
O.K. Interesting. Kind of makes an odd sort of sense that I really can't refute.
Although wouldn't that mean that God wants me to burn in hell for eternity?
Per LDS beliefs? No.
jabberwockybruno
Member
:danana:
Yes of course, I should have been more careful words. The concept of "proof" exists only in mathematics. For everything else, the best we can get is confirming evidence.
I too would like to see evidence but I'm not getting my hopes up. I'm hoping that when I read Doctrine & Covenants and Pearl of Great Price I'll be more convinced.)(
/QFT
I was raised devoutly religious. My entire family save me is still religious. (Not shocking to me, but perhaps to others, they are all devout in different faiths but we were all raised together 2 years apart.)
Honestly... people who bring up their children telling them Santa, god, joe smith talking to real angels, and even angels or devils, leprechauns etc etc... are REAL. Are doing their children a disservice.
My parent, pastors, brothers, elders all did me a disservice. The guy who did my personal bible study told me demons are definitely real as he personally knows someone that used a ouija board and now hears 2 radio stations playing constantly in his head like cacophony that completely disables him. (Lies in both that he knew anyone like that, that he had ever heard anything like that and that he believes anything like that...) How do I know? He told me... 12 years later when he decided his old faith was false and now he was baptist. I was 10 when he told me that. I met with him an hour every week for personal bible study... he was also there an hour a week for our family bible study and of course he saw me at church 3 days week.
Yet then he had no problem lying to a kid. Give it a dozen years... and now the truth comes out. (Honestly by then I was an atheist anyways or near to it so it was kind of expected)
Elders, priests, parents, sisters, friends and just about everyone I know has lied to me about not small things... God, aliens, ghosts, spirits, demons etc etc... :help:
My goal is to never lie to my kids about anything. And if I accidentally do... (Perhaps tell them something I later find out to be unprovable or not true then to apologize and tell them)
God is real. Santa is real. Aliens are real. Demons are real. Satan is hunting you. Devils are everywhere. Watch out for the Djinni and efeeti and especially the dark fairies... Honestly I know some people really and sincerely believe in this hocus pocus but raising their kids that fiction is the same as proven theories like e=mc2 or evolution is just wrong.
Everyone has their beliefs... Four leaf clovers are lucky, 13 is unlucky, dont walk under ladders... black cats cross your path and pick a penny up and all day long have good luck... whatever...
There is a difference between 2+2=4 and god is real. One is fact as far as we can discern and the other is your opinion based on evidence that pretty much disproves almost any modern religion. Even if you deny the evidence and embrace your own you accomplish nothing but selfish indulgence and breed and pass on ignorance and no one will commend you for that or in 2000 years remember you were here or ever condone your pathetic self serving wishful thinking afterlife believing madness...
wait.. where was I?
Oh yeah... QFT.
Last edited:
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
No, per Sola.
No, per LDS beliefs. Atheists burning in hell for eternity is not part of our beliefs.
Autodidact
Intentionally Blank
O.K. So what does happen to atheists in the afterlife, per LDS theology?
misanthropic_clown
Active Member
They are given opportunity to learn the gospel, and choose to accept Christ and the necessary ordinances to get into heaven. I don't think there is anything to suggest that someone who is atheist now would not be able to get to the highest order of the Celestial Kingdom. It would pretty much be dependent on how they lived their life, just as conversely a Mormon accepting Christ and performing the necessary ordinances is not guaranteed the same, depending on how they live their life.
In essence -as far as the LDS afterlife goes it doesn't altogether matter what creed one adheres to in life, provided you are a moral and decent person and make the necessary convergent steps in the afterlife.
OmarKhayyam
Well-Known Member
What is odd about the BoM is that anyone with more than 3 neurons firing takes it seriously.
In the very end, an atheist will receive a portion of God's glory - not burn in hell forever.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I have a question for you Omar. I take the Book of Mormon seriously. Are you calling me stupid? A simple yes or no will suffice.What is odd about the BoM is that anyone with more than 3 neurons firing takes it seriously.
madhatter85
Transhumanist
- Status