Nope, as trying to establish the truth is why so many people are deluded in this world; it is far easier to establish what is false.
So I've found that those statements add up in many places.
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What is spiritual enlightenment?
- Thread starter Gambit
- Start date
So I've found that those statements add up in many places.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
See the first paragraph here: The Thirty-one Planes of Existence
There are many references in the Buddhist suttas to beings re-appearing in different realms according to their actions, ie kamma.
“Make no mistake about it – enlightenment is a destructive process. It has nothing to do with becoming better or being happier. Enlightenment is the crumbing away of untruth. It’s seeing through the façade of pretense. It’s the complete eradication of everything we imagine to be true”. - Adyashanti
I think that is very likely true.
Gambit
Well-Known Member
So, if you're engaging in spiritual practices in order to achieve spiritual enlightenment, then you're engaging in mysticism.
Midnight Rain
Well-Known Member
Buddhism has a wide variety of different schools of thought. Some are mixed with others. This particular view comes from Theravadan Buddhism.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
I don't know of any Buddhist schools which teach your "random karma" interpretation.
If you say so.
Edited to add: however, that in no way means that the dictionary definition of mysticism that makes reference to God must be correct.
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Midnight Rain
Well-Known Member
Don't really feel like tracking it down since I learned this from Buddhists first hand rather than from sources. If they are wrong then perhaps by view of Buddhism is wrong but from a quick internet search it seems to support my claim that there is no unified way to look at the reincarnation process.
But this is from the wiki.
@Midnight Rain : I may be mistaken, but it looks like you are trying to make rebirth fit into the reincarnation mold, thereby creating this perception of random karma.
Midnight Rain
Well-Known Member
I'm only relaying how it was explained to me.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
The difference relates to assumptions about the mechanism, ie what is reborn - soul, essence, tendency, karma itself.
In any case "random karma" is an oxymoron.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
That's fine, but it's good to get this stuff clear. Sometimes people don't understand, sometimes people make up their own version of things, it can end up being a muddle.
It seems to me that you misunderstood. Or maybe someone else in the chain of transmission did. It happens all the time, and is one of the main reasons why it is so important to have personal access to qualified, trustworthy teachers.
In a manner of speaking. If one comes from an expectation of personal karma, which is to say, of Atman existing, then of course the Buddhist take on karma will look "random" at least at first.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Consider 'yoga'. Some take it only as an exercise to clear the mind of clutter, so that they can concentrate on some problem. That is not mysticism.
I sought answers to my questions by meditation to clear the mind and then thinking. Found them. Do not need meditation or any other process now. Would you term it as spiritual enlightenment. I think just 'enlightenment' (knowing, understanding) is enough to describe it, since I do not believe in spirits.
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Gambit
Well-Known Member
Agreed. But if you're engaging in spiritual practices in order to achieve spiritual enlightenment, then you're engaging in mysticism.
No, I would not define it as spiritually enlightened. If you deny the reality of spirit, then you cannot be spiritually enlightened.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
So how do you understand "spirit" here?
Gambit
Well-Known Member
I would define spiritually enlightened as a higher state of consciousness.
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Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
OK, higher states of consciousness can be accessed in meditation for example, but how is that dependent on "spirit".
Earlier you said: "If you deny the reality of spirit, then you cannot be spiritually enlightened." That's why I asked for clarification.