Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I am using the Douay Rheims version. What do you find to be out of harmony between Sirach and 1 Timothy and Romans?
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What is the Authority of the New Testament?
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To me, since Adam was Not deceived - 1st Timothy 2:14 - the blame rests with Adam
However, according to Sirach 25:23, 18 in woman (aka Eve) was sins beginning (sins beginning was with Satan ) and it is Not because of Eve ( a women) that we die. We die because we inherited adamic sin's wrong leanings from fallen-father Adam
Where does the blame rest according to Romans 5:14-15 _______________
So, as Sirach 25:12 says the 'worst of all evils is that of a woman ' is out of harmony with Bible canon's 66 Bible books
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
In the Douay-Rheims Edition Sirach 25:23 says." And there is no anger above the anger of a woman. It will be more agreeable to abide with a lion and a dragon, than to dwell with a wicked woman." Sirach 25:12 says, "Blessed is he that findeth a true friend, and that declareth justice to an ear that heareth." Sorry, but I don't see the contradiction.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
I has to do with the illustrious longevity of Christianity, all from its very humble beginnings; genocide. Christianity stuck it out, during the original hard times, and would go on and inherit Rome; preach to all the nations, via the world empires like Great Britians. It is hard enough for anything to last, but to also do this at the pinnacle of world success for centuries, requires support from God.
Christianity started in Jerusalem and expanded to north Europe, then west to North, Central and South America, as well as Australia. In modern times, these are the majority of the first world countries on earth. If the words of the New Testament did not inspire, this fate would have been different for Christians. The New Testament is not about the ego, but rather the words are designed to reach the inner self; inner man. Atheism is more ego-centric and the NT was not designed for the ego. The inner self is much deeper in the psyche, and when reached becomes closer to improved human instinct; recipe for success.
I remember going to a college graduation for my younger brother many years ago. His commencement speaker was a prestigious economist. He was telling stories of his travels around the world, as a consultant and economist, and how people from all over, marveled at USA, for how the USA could seem to be so chaotic, always changing, yet remaining peaceful, productive and stable; creative chaos. His explanation to those country and graduates, had to do with Christian Ethics. The love your neighbor and turn the other cheek, as a start, allows one to maintain a positive outlook, even while battling hard in the economic and social chaos. It instills sort of a sports attitude of achievement, where you play hard but fair, instead of shorter fuses, leading to cheating, and war that can end the dream.
The godless Democrats, in the current Presidential election cycle, are the mostly likely to cheat, lie and gossip, since they cannot compete in a fair way based on the rules of sport; pick to policy. They see it, not as sports but as all is fair in love and war. Even though they have to play dirty, this does not drag the more spiritual people into the gutter; Conservatives. Trump went through a lot of DNC cheats and lies, but turned the other cheek and did not respond in kind; lock them up. This was words and not action. When the entire country was more like latter, a generation or two ago, you could work and play hard and like in sports, have a beer with your opponents after the game.
Socialism is more for the cheaters. If you install Socialism, those in power can rig the game, to maintain that power. There is no easy path upward. The best people can no longer compete within that rigged system and they can become a threat if they find a work around.The result is an overall social downgrade. Democracy works better in Christian Countries, since you are trained as a child to have the proper attitude so that ideal of Democracy can be realized and maintained.
The Founding Fathers of the Constitution were closer to Agnostics. However, their wives were Christians and they taught the children who would someday be the future; blend of secular and faith or be prosperous but remain together in freedom.
When I was younger, the politician would mud slinging by doing investigative research, digging up real dirty secrets. Now lying is done instead. At least investigative snooping took skills. Lying is the cheat of the fools. If you water doe the Christians enough, they can't compensate for the cheat, and keep freedom going. Christianity also is based on the idea that law has been replaced by faith. A honest person with self control and good attitude towards others does not need law. This is the recipe for freedom and rights.
Are you okay??? Anyone who writes "The godless Democrats, in the current Presidential election cycle, are the mostly likely to cheat, lie and gossip, since they cannot compete in a fair way based on the rules of sport; pick to policy" has no grasp on reality.
"Godless Democrats" have no interest in even considering a senile ex-President who has been convicted of sexually abusing a woman (to whom he must pay $83,300,000 !) and has been convicted of 34 felonies, to occupy the Oval Office.
You write "Trump went through a lot of DNC cheats and lies, but turned the other cheek and did not respond in kind; lock them up". Apparently your memory can't remember that Trump led a violent insurrection in order to overturn the results of an election that he knew he lost!
It is astonishing that anyone who calls themselves a Christian can support such an evil man. Why not write in a vote for Satan? It's the same thing!
Or move to Russia or North Korea. Trump admires both violent, evil dictators, so you would undoubtedly live better there. Love it or leave it!
Where is the corresponding cross-reference verse to above Sirach 25:23 __________________
In the Confraternity-Douay Version:
( Imprimature Francis Cardinal Spellman Novermber 1, 1961 copyright 1962 )
Sirach 25:15 says, "With a dragon or a lion I would rather dwell than live with an evil woman "
Sirach 25:12 says, " Worst of all wounds is that of the heart, worst of all evils is that of a woman."
Sirach 25:18 says, " There is scarce any evil like that of a woman;"
Sirach 25:23 says, " In woman was sins beginning and because of her we all die."
What year is your Douay-Rheims Edition, and why the change in the verses numbers or words ?
Since sin began with Satan, then to me to say sins beginning was because of a woman is a lie.
Eve did Not exist before Satan unless you have another woman in mind _________
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I believe it's an 1899 edition.
Thank you for bringing the ^ above ^ to my attention.
I did Not realize the Douay-Rheims is different from the Confraternity-Douay Verson or Edition
Does Wisdom 4:6 Rheims read any different at verse 6, " For children born of lawless unions give evidence of the wickedness of their parents, when they are examined."
Which edition is the accurate one ?
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
It reads a little differently but I am pretty sure it means the same thing:
6 For the children that are born of unlawful beds, are witnesses of wickedness against their parents in their trial.
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
I am not sure any of them are inaccurate. You simply asked which version I am using and I told you. It's the 1899 American edition.
Thank you for your reply, but I don't think sin's beginning was with woman. To me that is Not scriptural.
The woman was deceived but the man Adam was Not deceived
Thus, scripturally the blame rests on Adam's shoulders because Adam did Not have to listen to his wife
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
Well, I don't see it saying that.
What do you see at 1st Timothy 2:14 __________________
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
14 And Adam was not seduced; but the woman being seduced, was in the transgression.
Yes, Eve transgressed, but Adam was Not deceived, thus as Romans chapter 5 says the blame rests Not on woman but Adam
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
The bible I read says that Adam was not SEDUCED.
Good point ^above^ because Adam was Not Seduced, but rather Eve was seduced/ deceived as per 1st Timothy 2:14
This is why the blame rests on -> Adam as chapter 5 of Romans informs us
Adam did Not have to listen/obey Eve and break God's Law of Gen. 2:17
Before Adam ate the forbidden fruit Adam was sinless
Jesus too started out sinless - Hebrews 2:17 A
Unlike Adam (under excellent edenic conditions) proved un-faithful, sinless Jesus proved faithful under very adverse conditions
Romans 5:12, " Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—