What is the best argument for an atheist?

[Gloone]

faith is believing in things unseen
wisdom is gained through experience

That is just your personal representation of faith that you can’t describe or explain for yourself. However if you just believe you wouldn’t need to contradict your own faith. You could believe in it without contradiction.

what would you tell the parents of the children that died because they thought god told them through faith that god would heal them?
would you tell them they didn't have faith? or the right kind?
faith without works is dead...

in this case what would constitute as faith gained through wisdom?

I would tell them I am not real sure what type of god they believe in. The bible says that God is the giver of life as is Jesus for he is the way.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

but anyone can learn this lesson in wisdom without faith

Then you're calling faith something different.

i still don't see how faith brings wisdom in understanding the unknown...

Wisdom is experience. Experience the unknown (the 'creation' position), gain wisdom. It's hard, and most of the time, we don't see the value in this. But there is value. You have to experience it to know that.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Here's what it comes down to for me: it is impossible to either prove or disprove the existence of any god. But before you can even try to offer evidence either way, you first have to define what you mean by 'god'. If you're referring to the Abrahamic god, then no, I don't believe that such a god could exist, and the best evidence I can offer is reality itself. Think about how god is defined in the Christian religion: he is all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good. These three cannot coexist at the same time in the same deity, with the world being the way it is. One of them has to either be amended, or done away with completely. But, since Christian theology is unmovable on it's definition of god, this becomes an impossibility to believe in their gods existence. And we can use similar arguments on any of the monotheistic religions. Polytheism has similar problems. If many 'gods' exist, how can you continue to call them god? You're definition of god would have to be something less than the monotheistic one. Pantheism, too, is not without it's problems. They say 'all is god'. But what do they mean by 'god'? You can use other terms to describe the interdependence and connectedness of all things without using god-terms. Deism, to me, offers the best possibility of being true. It comes closer to the ancient philosopher's view on the ultimate deity, such as is found in the works of Plato and Aristotle. But, for me, no god-concept is needed to explain things the way they are.

 

[waitasec]

Then you're calling faith something different.

what is this the definition of:
"A desire of some good, accompanied with an expectation of obtaining it, or a belief that it is obtainable; confidence;"

Wisdom is experience. Experience the unknown (the 'creation' position), gain wisdom. It's hard, and most of the time, we don't see the value in this. But there is value. You have to experience it to know that.

if it is unknown, then how do you know you experienced it and not assumed your experience?
is it a matter of having faith that you have faith?

 

[waitasec]

That is just your personal representation of faith that you can’t describe or explain for yourself.

but i did describe it and explained it, just not to your liking. funny enough i used the bibles definition.

However if you just believe you wouldn’t need to contradict your own faith. You could believe in it without contradiction.

that sounds like being stubbornly prideful. for me, that is a dangerous road to travel on. sounds like contradiction is something to either be afraid of, avoid or just not acknowledge

I would tell them I am not real sure what type of god they believe in. The bible says that God is the giver of life as is Jesus for he is the way.

they read the same bible as you, why wouldn't they believe in the same god?

 

[Gloone]

but i did describe it and explained it, just not to your liking. funny enough i used the bibles definition.

Wait; you mean that you used the definition from your imaginary pocket bible? You have probably never even picked up a bible to read it in your entire life. Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It is belief or trust in someone or something. Not the unseen, like you claim.

that sounds like being stubbornly prideful. for me, that is a dangerous road to travel on. sounds like contradiction is something to either be afraid of, avoid or just not acknowledge

Of course it would. That is because you don’t know what faith is.

they read the same bible as you, why wouldn't they believe in the same god?

Do they really? How do you know what type of bible I read? Why would they need to read the bible or follow any other religion to believe / understand god?

 

[jonman122]

All i have to say to you gloone, is Herbrews 11:1.

 

[waitasec]

Wait; you mean that you used the definition from your imaginary pocket bible? You have probably never even picked up a bible to read it in your entire life.

you are wrong. i studied the bible for the ministry in fact and it was there that i began my journey to question my faith

It is belief or trust in someone or something. Not the unseen, like you claim.

heb 11:1
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

Of course it would. That is because you don’t know what faith is.

are you saying that because in faith you know you are right?

Do they really? How do you know what type of bible I read? Why would they need to read the bible or follow any other religion to believe / understand god?

do you read the bible?

 

[Gloone]

All i have to say to you gloone, is Herbrews 11:1.

I am not a Hebrew and if you actually read further into the bible you would realize that Hebrews are blind to faith.

 

[waitasec]

faith is believing in things unseen

That is just your personal representation of faith that you can’t describe or explain for yourself. However if you just believe you wouldn’t need to contradict your own faith. You could believe in it without contradiction.

but i did describe it and explained it, just not to your liking. funny enough i used the bibles definition.

Wait; you mean that you used the definition from your imaginary pocket bible? You have probably never even picked up a bible to read it in your entire life. Faith - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia It is belief or trust in someone or something. Not the unseen, like you claim.

sort of funny how you revert to wiki other than the bible to define what faith means...

All i have to say to you gloone, is Herbrews 11:1.

I am not a Hebrew and if you actually read further into the bible you would realize that Hebrews are blind to faith.

:biglaugh:
now that's a red herring

 

[Diederick]

The imperfection of the watch reveals the imperfection of the watchmaker. If God is perfect, God does not exist.

The problem with Gods is that they are either unprovable/unknowable, self-refuting (as seen above) or without evidence... without fault.

 

[Gloone]

sort of funny how you revert to wiki other than the bible to define what faith means...

Definition from the back of the KING JAMES VERSION of the bible.
Faith: Belief or trust in someone or something.
-Clearly this is something you lack.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Hebrews%2011&version=NKJV
Next time try reading the text in its entirety instead of taking it out of context.

:biglaugh:
now that's a red herring

Maybe you can explain to me why this is a red herring.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Why does your God not practice what he preaches?

 

[waitasec]

Maybe you can explain to me why this is a red herring.

hebrews 11:1
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

this passage is in a book you claim to be the word of god...

you also said this in regards to why a parent who had "faith" in god to heal their child ended up dying...

I would tell them I am not real sure what type of god they believe in. The bible says that God is the giver of life as is Jesus for he is the way.

you obviously believe what the bible says

 

[Gloone]

hebrews 11:1
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

this passage is in a book you claim to be the word of god...

you also said this in regards to why a parent who had "faith" in god to heal their child ended up dying...

you obviously believe what the bible says

I have already explained this to you more than once. I'm not going through this with you again.

 

[strikeviperMKII]

what is this the definition of:
"A desire of some good, accompanied with an expectation of obtaining it, or a belief that it is obtainable; confidence;"

Is that the dictionary talking? Don't trust yourself enough to define your own terms?

Oh well.

if it is unknown, then how do you know you experienced it and not assumed your experience?
is it a matter of having faith that you have faith?

You'll know. The first sign is that you really don't want to do something. If you're frustrated, that's usually a sign that you're facing something that you haven't dealt with before.

 

[outhouse]

is there a reason someone would use a fictional book written 2000 years ago to draw a conclusion of what faith really is???

 

[waitasec]

You should go pick your brain up, I think it might have fell out a few posts back. I have already explained this to you more than once. I'm not going through this with you again.

typical...

 

[waitasec]

Is that the dictionary talking? Don't trust yourself enough to define your own terms?

yes it is a definition, but of what word?

You'll know. The first sign is that you really don't want to do something. If you're frustrated, that's usually a sign that you're facing something that you haven't dealt with before.

what like paying taxes for the 1st time?

 

[Gloone]

is there a reason someone would use a fictional book written 2000 years ago to draw a conclusion of what faith really is???

Not everyone is capable of being intellectually gifted. So it might be required or needed for some.