What is the best argument for an atheist?

[waitasec]

If you are hoping for wisdom, you are doing something yes? Actions lead to experience, even passive ones.

no you are not. you have to dive right in and gain wisdom through experience.
hoping is wishful thinking
then you are experienced in wishful thinking

Whether your hope is fulfilled or not, you will still gain experience of hoping for something. Be it how not to hope for something or how to hope for something, you still gain experience.

are you saying keeping up a positive outlook comes from hoping?
you still need to act out on what it is you need to gain knowledge from.

i am self employed.
i started out by diving right into the darkness hoping i can make due
i have confidence now because my line of work has been proven to be paying off.
but i had to jump in and commit in order to gain wisdom from it.

 

[Orias]

no you are not. you have to dive right in and gain wisdom through experience.
hoping is wishful thinking
then you are experienced in wishful thinking

Whether your hope is fulfilled or not, you will still gain experience of hoping for something. Be it how not to hope for something or how to hope for something, you still gain experience.

Hmm, I could agree with both of you here. Waitasec, from what I understand from your perspective is that, experience is relevant to the situation and aspect of one's own fulfillment and physical merit, whereas StrikeviperMKII is saying experience is developed through thought.

I think when it comes down to it, experience is just that...experience. One may have more "experience" in the art of communication, but may lack experience in social standards, either way, it is still experience and wisdom.

Wishful thinking may develope you or even drive you to furthure understand what you desire, hence causing you to develope a greater experience or undefiled wisdom of that experience.

But I can understand the argument too, you can't experience by not doing. Like at school, they teach you of experiences of others, but you don't truly know what it is like until you, yourself, do it.

Though I may have missed a few points here...

are you saying keeping up a positive outlook comes from hoping?
you still need to act out on what it is you need to gain knowledge from.

I could agree with this. On the other, life is an experience, therefore all beings are wise.

i am self employed.
i started out by diving right into the darkness hoping i can make due
i have confidence now because my line of work has been proven to be paying off.
but i had to jump in and commit in order to gain wisdom from it.

This relates to the paragraph above.

 

[waitasec]

great points orias...

i guess what i'm trying to say is that i gain wisdom by putting my money where my mouth is to know that i'm not kidding myself.

you are right life is an experience
and that depends on the type of life you want to live.

 

[Tathagata]

What is the best argument for an atheist?

Usually the first thing and only thing that comes to mind is prove it! Prove god exist!

Is that the only argument atheists have or is there something better? When I see this argument I see an argument that isn’t very well thought out or designed. Since an atheist has no grounds of belief to stand is it normal for them to criticize other people’s religion to buff up their own lack of philosophical views and beliefs?

Also if you can think of some other atheist arguments go ahead and add them to this thread. I would like to see some other out of the ordinary arguments made by atheist.

Are you kidding me? There's at least 50 logical arguments against God formulated by Atheists in syllogistic form. Most of them demonstrate that Gods existence is impossible using logic and science, while others merely try to demonstrate that God is improbable.

Go to StrongAtheism.net and you can find these arguments.


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[St Giordano Bruno]

I was once assumed that in pre-Galilean times the Earth was the only possible world and was used as a teleological argument for the existence of God. Humanity could not imagine a world where the reliable seasons did not provide reliable crops with season rain or if if the air was poisonous to breathe or thin and permanently icy cold like on the summit of Mt Olympus. They could argued if it was just purely up to nature we could have ended up with a world covered in one great ocean of steaming sulphur or a permanent frozen wasteland like the far north tundra in mid winter. It was totally oblivious the fact that nature actually did create those worlds which were in fact hostile to life as they knew it - only more so. It did not occur them they were just a self samplement amongst billions of failed worlds like Venus and Mars.

So if God exists why did he create so many dead planets?, It just seems like a pointless waste to me. Like we know Qantus just recently had the misfortune of acquiring a dodgy Airbus A 380 superjumbo jet as a faulty engine exploded near Singapore and nearly fell out of the sky as one wing was so badly damaged when it happened. We pointed the finger of blame at the Airbus corporation, and they accepted complete responsibility to repair the aircraft if it was possible for Qantus to patch it up and have it flown back to Europe; otherwise they would replace it with a new aircraft. So we make a big deal of manufacturers messing up one aircraft out of hundreds, but if Airbus was as incompetent with making jet airlines as this “God” was with creating planets with life on them they would never be in business.

 

[Gloone]

Are you kidding me? There's at least 50 logical arguments against God formulated by Atheists in syllogistic form. Most of them demonstrate that Gods existence is impossible using logic and science, while others merely try to demonstrate that God is improbable.

Go to StrongAtheism.net and you can find these arguments.


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Well what is the atheist explanation for existence then?

 

[Copernicus]

Well what is the atheist explanation for existence then?

I think. Therefore, I am.

 

[Gloone]

I think. Therefore, I am.

Is that without question? I like the straight forward approach but surely you are not saying you thought yourself into existence.

 

[Gloone]

I was once assumed that in pre-Galilean times the Earth was the only possible world and was used as a teleological argument for the existence of God. Humanity could not imagine a world where the reliable seasons did not provide reliable crops with season rain or if if the air was poisonous to breathe or thin and permanently icy cold like on the summit of Mt Olympus. They could argued if it was just purely up to nature we could have ended up with a world covered in one great ocean of steaming sulphur or a permanent frozen wasteland like the far north tundra in mid winter. It was totally oblivious the fact that nature actually did create those worlds which were in fact hostile to life as they knew it - only more so. It did not occur them they were just a self samplement amongst billions of failed worlds like Venus and Mars.

So if God exists why did he create so many dead planets?, It just seems like a pointless waste to me. Like we know Qantus just recently had the misfortune of acquiring a dodgy Airbus A 380 superjumbo jet as a faulty engine exploded near Singapore and nearly fell out of the sky as one wing was so badly damaged when it happened. We pointed the finger of blame at the Airbus corporation, and they accepted complete responsibility to repair the aircraft if it was possible for Qantus to patch it up and have it flown back to Europe; otherwise they would replace it with a new aircraft. So we make a big deal of manufacturers messing up one aircraft out of hundreds, but if Airbus was as incompetent with making jet airlines as this “God” was with creating planets with life on them they would never be in business.

I have not posted about God, but since you mentioned dead planets I thought I would respond because I like the thought of dead planets, the thought of God creating the heavens (based on the bible) and some mythology. With my own twisted thought process tied into it.

What you might consider to be a dead planet may be what someone else considers a master piece or work of art. Do you realize how visually amazing it is to see pictures of a far away galaxy or stars? Just the very thought that GOD or some senseless demon conjured our very flesh and bone from the dirt of a dead planet and then breathe life into us is absolutely amazing. Let me put it to you this way. If our galaxy holds a mystery and it is called life. What makes you think other galaxies are not capable of holding other mysteries? How do you know it’s something we are not capable of seeing or being totally aware of? Put yourself outside of the Milky Way and look at it. Who would think anyone could possibly live in a place so desolate when comparing it to other galaxies. And out of the ground GOD grew a tree, and out of the ground GOD conjured up some more crap/stuff/things/materials/the essentials for life, because some how god knew we would need them.

Now give me all your frubals because I deserve them…

 

[Copernicus]

Is that without question? I like the straight forward approach but surely you are not saying you thought yourself into existence.

What do you consider an adequate explanation for existence? Goddidit? :areyoucra

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Sure.


Wisdom requires one to experience. I have said this.

Without knowledge, you cannot have wisdom.
Without proper justification for your beliefs, you cannot have knowledge.
Without evidence, you cannot have proper justification for your beliefs.
Therefore, faith cannot lead to wisdom.

Faith is a conclusion, not a starting point.

 

[Willamena]

Without knowledge, you cannot have wisdom.
Without proper justification for your beliefs, you cannot have knowledge.
Without evidence, you cannot have proper justification for your beliefs.
Therefore, faith cannot lead to wisdom.

Faith is a conclusion, not a starting point.

Knowledge of what? I have knowledge of my left toe.

 

[Willamena]

Are you kidding me? There's at least 50 logical arguments against God formulated by Atheists in syllogistic form.

I hope you don't mean that joke website that's been floating around the web for a few decades.

 

[waitasec]

Knowledge of what? I have knowledge of my left toe.

this is a roundabout rebuttal to this statement;

Wisdom is experience. Experience the unknown (the 'creation' position), gain wisdom. It's hard, and most of the time, we don't see the value in this. But there is value. You have to experience it to know that.

your left toe is known

 

[Willamena]

this is a roundabout rebuttal to this statement;


your left toe is known

Knowledge of my left toe is roundabout, too --I know I left it round'about here somewhere.

Okay, I'll shut up now.

 

[waitasec]

Knowledge of my left toe is roundabout, too --I know I left it round'about here somewhere.

Okay, I'll shut up now.

please don't...:flower:

 

[Orias]

great points orias...

i guess what i'm trying to say is that i gain wisdom by putting my money where my mouth is to know that i'm not kidding myself.

you are right life is an experience
and that depends on the type of life you want to live.

Ha, an understandable situation.

If you know you can back something up, then you should do it. I find myself in the same boat as you, for you don't gain from not trying!

And thats where the whole "hope" argument came into play then.

Which is also understandable, since sometimes the best thing to do is to wait it out, and let them come to you. But of course, this goes without saying, give a little to get a little.

 

[Smoke]

Without knowledge, you cannot have wisdom.
Without proper justification for your beliefs, you cannot have knowledge.
Without evidence, you cannot have proper justification for your beliefs.
Therefore, faith cannot lead to wisdom.

Faith is a conclusion, not a starting point.

That's one of the best things I've ever read.

 

[Tathagata]

Well what is the atheist explanation for existence then?

Existence exists. If your God doesn't need an explanation other than "he just exists," why can't we say that existence just exists.

As far as cosmological origins, many will just say "I don't know. But there's no need to make up fairy tales to explain it."


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[Gloone]

Existence exists. If your God doesn't need an explanation other than "he just exists," why can't we say that existence just exists.

As far as cosmological origins, many will just say "I don't know. But there's no need to make up fairy tales to explain it."


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Awww that is cute, you don't like fairy tales?