What is the Left (politically)?

[Yerda]

You say that you're a leftist, a "true leftist", but you give no explanation of what that means. What is your idea of what a leftist is?

While we're at it, please explain why you choose to be a leftist.

Left wingers are people who think we should actively pursue egalitarian outcomes in the public sphere. Government policy and legislation, decision making on all scales, the ownership and control of public goods, etc should serve the purposes of granting each member of a society an equal footing in that society (insofar as it is possible) as these are the conditions under which human beings typically are best able to engage, cooperate and flourish within that society.

I don't know that we choose to be leftists (or rightists) as much as we land where we do on questions of who should wield power, under whose authority and to what end.

It isn't always helpful to think in terms of left and right, though, and I find myself in disagreement with other left wingers almost as frequently as right wingers. The political compass and other multi dimensional categorisations are probably better than a single axis for determining political closeness between two sets of opinions. I sometimes find I have more in common with the right wing libertarians than the centrists and mild left of centre types.

 

[Pogo]

Thank you...I didn't know that's the definition you guys use.
We call that Social Democracy. Or Democratic Socialism.

I am slightly tempted towards authoritarian socialism. Which is not liberal.

Slightly?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

No...you gotta choose.
Either you are a socialist or a Libertarian.
They are incompatible.

If you are a Socialist, then side with Bernie Sanders.

That's rich, coming from someone claiming to be a lefty while glorifying extreme right wing authoritarians.

 

[Father Heathen]

Indeed.
Why do you think our PM is unmarried?

Don't know. Don't care. Marriage isn't for everyone.

 

[Father Heathen]

Please....that is something trivial.
It's not political science.

Your inability to understand a concept doesn't make it trivial.

 

[Father Heathen]

More like the bottom corner section.

Same thing?

 

[Stevicus]

Precisely.

But the problem here is that the Democratic Party is neither.
It is just some warlike centrism funded by the military Industrial Complex, who says they are cool just because they defend abortion and LGBT rights.

I defend these too...but I detest wars.

The Democratic Party was never socialist. The problem has been with Republicans constantly calling them "socialist" (or "commie" or "pinko" or any number of other such terms), which creates this perception in the minds of the public. From the other side, one can see words like "fascist" and "Nazi" get tossed around rather casually as well.

It's more a war of rhetoric than any real clash of political differences. They both support global interventionism and military adventurism. They both support making the rich richer and the poor poorer. They both support the War on Drugs and other such corrupt activities which benefit organized crime. They both oppose socialized medicine. Both support outsourcing, free trade, and the resulting decline in the U.S. economy and our standard of living. Both have stood by and watched while America's infrastructure and industrial base have deteriorated, as well as the decline of our educational system falling far behind the rest of the industrial world.

 

[Father Heathen]

So...as I said, I am adraid there is, in the US a sexualization of politics.
Just my opinion....if Trump had been gay, many dems would have even loved him.

That's nonsensical rubbish. He's disliked for being a corrupt, incompetent, treasonous, felonious, bigoted, adulterous rapist. How would being gay absolve him of any of that? Do ethics and morals not matter in Italy? Religion really is just a bull**** façade, isn't it?

 

[Father Heathen]

...but I detest wars.

Then why do you sing the praises of despotic war criminals who start them?

 

[Father Heathen]

I am slightly tempted towards authoritarian socialism.

Given your love for tyrants and their ideologies, that comes as no surprise.

 

[Estro Felino]

Given your love for tyrants and their ideologies, that comes as no surprise.

Thank you.
The dems roll red carpets at bankers and speculators.
I would be merciless with them through high taxation.

 

[Estro Felino]

That's nonsensical rubbish. He's disliked for being a corrupt, incompetent, treasonous, felonious, bigoted, adulterous rapist. How would being gay absolve him of any of that? Do ethics and morals not matter in Italy? Religion really is just a bull**** façade, isn't it?

I have realized that when that dem intern had sex in the Senate hearing room with a man.

If a man had had sex with a woman in that room...the dem women would have skinned him alive.


There is a big psychiatric problem here.

 

[Estro Felino]

The Democratic Party was never socialist. The problem has been with Republicans constantly calling them "socialist" (or "commie" or "pinko" or any number of other such terms), which creates this perception in the minds of the public. From the other side, one can see words like "fascist" and "Nazi" get tossed around rather casually as well.

...which makes me angry.
Because they are neither socialists nor communists

Marx rolls in his grave every time they call those caviar-loving elitist dems "communists".

It is outrageous.

It's more a war of rhetoric than any real clash of political differences. They both support global interventionism and military adventurism. They both support making the rich richer and the poor poorer. They both support the War on Drugs and other such corrupt activities which benefit organized crime. They both oppose socialized medicine. Both support outsourcing, free trade, and the resulting decline in the U.S. economy and our standard of living. Both have stood by and watched while America's infrastructure and industrial base have deteriorated, as well as the decline of our educational system falling far behind the rest of the industrial world.

Excellent.
Bravo.

 

[Estro Felino]

That's rich, coming from someone claiming to be a lefty while glorifying extreme right wing authoritarians.

Like who?
Extreme right-wing?

 

[Stevicus]

...which makes me angry.
Because they are neither socialists nor communists

Marx rolls in his grave every time they call those caviar-loving elitist dems "communists".

It is outrageous.

Misuse of language and the kind of frivolous (mis)labeling which goes on have been par for the course in U.S. politics. In fact, I've observed that most political discussions and arguments tend to revolve around the use of language and how to label and characterize events and political positions. There's very little actual discussion about people's political or philosophical differences, beyond just the labels and other superficial perceptions. It's mainly just surface-level stuff; no one wants to get too deep or intellectual.

 

[Estro Felino]

Misuse of language and the kind of frivolous (mis)labeling which goes on have been par for the course in U.S. politics. In fact, I've observed that most political discussions and arguments tend to revolve around the use of language and how to label and characterize events and political positions. There's very little actual discussion about people's political or philosophical differences, beyond just the labels and other superficial perceptions. It's mainly just surface-level stuff; no one wants to get too deep or intellectual.

In other words: labels are propaganda tools.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Like who?
Extreme right-wing?

Orban, Putin, LePen, Trump, your own PM,...

You rejoice every time far right wins elections and glorify these people all the time.

I don't remember you ever talking in such praising ways about any actual left european politician.

 

[Estro Felino]

Orban, Putin, LePen, Trump, your own PM,...

But in Russia even rightists are socialists

At least in Russia there is free universal healthcare.

You rejoice every time far right wins elections and glorify these people all the time.

Yes.
Because I want the European leftists to be voted out.
So they understand that people hate their guts because they spit on socialism.

I don't remember you ever talking in such praising ways about any actual left european politician.

Where are these leftist politicians?

Not in my country. Maybe in Spain or in Slovakia.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

But in Russia even rightists are socialists

At least in Russia there is free universal healthcare.

Yes.
Because I want the European leftists to be voted out.
So they understand that people hate their guts because they spit on socialism.



Where are these leftist politicians?

Not innmy country. Maybe in Spain or in Slovakia.

Ha.... the "no-true-leftist" fallacy. That's new.

Meanwhile, you still cheer for and glorify right wingers

You sound like you are an extreme right winger with an identity crisis.

 

[Father Heathen]

There is a big psychiatric problem here.

Yes. Yours, for applying sex and sexuality to everything when it has no relevancy.