What is the Left (politically)?

[Estro Felino]

Ha.... the "no-true-leftist" fallacy. That's new.

Meanwhile, you still cheer for and glorify right wingers

You sound like you are an extreme right winger with an identity crisis.

Define Left-wing then.


Because people believe that Macron Le BonBon is a leftist


Which is the most laughable thing ever...
Rothschild Junior a leftist????

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes. Yours, for applying sex and sexuality to everything when it has no relevancy.

Indeed...it has no relevancy.

Yet dems bring up Trump's sex life 24/7.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Because people believe that Macron Le BonBon is a leftist

Which is the most laughable thing ever...
Rothschild Junior a leftist????

Who are these people?

 

[Estro Felino]

Who are these people?

Everyone in Europe.

You probably believe Verhofstadt is a leftist

 

[Stevicus]

In other words: labels are propaganda tools.

Yes, that would be a fair assessment. Sometimes, it comes off as a disingenuous attempt at moral censure and guilt by association. By calling someone a "communist," it evokes images of gulags, mass murder, atrocities, purges, etc. It's an attempt to portray a political opponent as the "worst of the worst."

 

[Kfox]

I guess I am the only true leftist (except very few people, one or two) on RF. No offense


It's saddening and disheartening to realize that there are too many people who declare themselves "leftists", but actually roll red carpets at bankers and speculators.

You remind me of a friend of mine who is Christian, but declares himself a true Christian,, and all the other Christians who disagree with him on one issue or another are "so called" Christians, "fake" Christians, or not Christians at all.

There are even bankers who have the cheekiness to call themselves "leftists".
It's like as if the KFC CEO declared himself as the leader of the "chicken's for life movement"
It is grotesque...not to say ridiculous.

So I am asking the members of the Soŕosian Left: what do you mean by Left when you call yourself "a leftist"?

Merci beaucoup pour vos réponses.❤

What is considered leftist is a huge spectrum that includes a lot of people who are not gonna agree with you on every issue.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Everyone in Europe.

You probably believe Verhofstadt is a leftist

So all you have are your delusional assumptions again it seems.

Both these people are more centrist then anything else.
I'm not aware of anyone who considers them particularly left.
They might have propensity to lean left more on some issues though.

 

[Estro Felino]

Yes, that would be a fair assessment. Sometimes, it comes off as a disingenuous attempt at moral censure and guilt by association. By calling someone a "communist," it evokes images of gulags, mass murder, atrocities, purges, etc. It's an attempt to portray a political opponent as the "worst of the worst."

It also has to do with a veiled Russophobia that has never gone away...
Am I wrong?

 

[Stevicus]

Define Left-wing then.

Isn't that what this thread is about, trying to define what is leftist?

Because people believe that Macron Le BonBon is a leftist

Which is the most laughable thing ever...
Rothschild Junior a leftist????

In a way, this kind of labeling is not all that different than the usual mud-slinging or name-calling one hears in political rhetoric. I don't give it much credence any more than I would take seriously someone calling someone else a "poopyhead."

 

[Estro Felino]

You remind me of a friend of mine who is Christian, but declares himself a true Christian,, and all the other Christians who disagree with him on one issue or another are "so called" Christians, "fake" Christians, or not Christians at all.

What is considered leftist is a huge spectrum that includes a lot of people who are not gonna agree with you on every issue.

Good points.
That is why I asked you guys to define what the Left is.

 

[Estro Felino]

Isn't that what this thread is about, trying to define what is leftist?

I did define that.
Nobody has refuted my definition.

In a way, this kind of labeling is not all that different than the usual mud-slinging or name-calling one hears in political rhetoric. I don't give it much credence any more than I would take seriously someone calling someone else a "poopyhead."

Macron has been voted out by his people twice last June.
Another politician would have had the decency to resign.

Even you should understand my contempt.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Good points.
That is why I asked you guys to define what the Left is.

You don't define it. You describe it. Do you understand the difference?

No different from this for religion:

Religion | Definition, Types, Beliefs, Symbols, Examples, Importance, & Facts

Religion, human beings’ relation to that which they regard as holy, sacred, absolute, spiritual, divine, or worthy of especial reverence. Worship, moral conduct, right belief, and participation in religious institutions are among the constituent elements of the religious life.

www.britannica.com

 

[Stevicus]

It also has to do with a veiled Russophobia that has never gone away...
Am I wrong?

I sense that to be present, yes, although nobody seems willing to admit to it openly.

This also points up another aspect of the "left-right" spectrum in that the left tends to be more internationalistic in its scope, whereas the right tends to be more nationalistic. In that sense, "right wing" and "left wing" can be viewed more in a relativistic sense.

For example, within the framework of the Soviet Union, Stalin was considered to be on the "right wing" of the Communist Party, as he emphasized "socialism in one country" which had a decidedly nationalistic bent to it. But it was also "internationalistic" of sorts, as the Soviet Union was a "nation" which was made up of many nations. So, it was kind of complicated in practice.

It's also complicated with NATO, as NATO is not a single "nation," so it can't be nationalistic in that sense. However, it does tend to have a certain cohesiveness and shared purpose influenced by a common defensive alignment and shared protection. So, they're driven to protect their own nations as much as any nationalist would, except they believe that an international alliance would be more effective than going it alone.

However, it also appears evident that there are some nationalists who do think in terms of going it alone and ostensibly wish to go their own way, without getting tied in to a permanent alliance. There's an air of xenophobia about it, where people get tied in to their own national identity, culture, and ways of living to the point where anything that doesn't fall within that or conform to their cultural values is deemed a threat.

 

[Stevicus]

I did define that.
Nobody has refuted my definition.

Macron has been voted out by his people twice last June.
Another politician would have had the decency to resign.

Even you should understand my contempt.

Well, in a democratic system, if the people vote someone out, they gotta go. But even that can get complicated when there's so many people out there making allegations about voter fraud and crooked elections. Theoretically, both sides may agree that the government should faithfully carry out the "will of the people," but nobody is ever really quite sure what the "will of the people" actually is at any given moment.

And even then, in practice, a lot of leaders don't seem to care much about what the people actually want, as much as they try to persuade people what they need or what they should want. Some might even develop a messianic complex where they decide that they know what's best for the people, even if they don't want it.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Well, in a democratic system, if the people vote someone out, they gotta go. But even that can get complicated when there's so many people out there making allegations about voter fraud and crooked elections. Theoretically, both sides may agree that the government should faithfully carry out the "will of the people," but nobody is ever really quite sure what the "will of the people" actually is at any given moment.

And even then, in practice, a lot of leaders don't seem to care much about what the people actually want, as much as they try to persuade people what they need or what they should want. Some might even develop a messianic complex where they decide that they know what's best for the people, even if they don't want it.

Well, Macron wasn't voted out. That is her political spin.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, Macron wasn't voted out. That is her political spin.

Yes he was.
The Front Populaire won led by Mélenchon.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yes he was.
The Front Populaire won led by Mélenchon.

No, they didn't win as for a majority and it has nothing to do with Macron being president as that is another part of the French system.

 

[Father Heathen]

It also has to do with a veiled Russophobia that has never gone away...
Am I wrong?

"Russophobia" is a lot like "Islamophobia", words made up to dismiss valid criticisms. Unprovoked invasions and war crimes are bad things. No magic dance or word play will change that.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, in a democratic system, if the people vote someone out, they gotta go. But even that can get complicated when there's so many people out there making allegations about voter fraud and crooked elections. Theoretically, both sides may agree that the government should faithfully carry out the "will of the people," but nobody is ever really quite sure what the "will of the people" actually is at any given moment.

And even then, in practice, a lot of leaders don't seem to care much about what the people actually want, as much as they try to persuade people what they need or what they should want. Some might even develop a messianic complex where they decide that they know what's best for the people, even if they don't want it.

Honestly I think that the French electoral system is the most shady, the most fraudulent in all of Europe.
They need two elections...which already gives more time to deceive.

Ours is very transparent. Whoever gets the majority of votes, becomes Prime Minister.

 

[Estro Felino]

"Russophobia" is a lot like "Islamophobia", words made up to dismiss valid criticisms. Unprovoked invasions and war crimes are bad things. No magic dance or word play will change that.

Yet the Democratic Party uses the word Islamophobia 24/7.