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What is the Left (politically)?

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
@Estro Felino , you still having explained what you mean by "alpha male".
I start to suspect that the problem here is that the alpha male is seen as an enemy...the white alpha male. Right?
You keep bringing it up, but you always sidestep whenever you're asked to elaborate. You've also presented Trump and Musk as examples of "alpha males", despite being creepy and gross little goblins.

But regardless of whatever an "alpha male" is supposed to be, no, the problem is unethical, irresponsible, and/or criminal behavior. You know, real world stuff, but your weird fantasies and fetishes.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Agreed -- when mortgage rates were 13% and mental health programs were defunded. I've never understood the Reagan years as being sooo good. He did OK in foreign policy, but Carter did the hard work there, IMO.

I thought Reagan's foreign policy was muddled, disjointed, and militaristic. His presidency started with the Iranian hostage crisis, and he also got caught up in the Iran-Contra arms for hostages debacle a few years later. I think that's the primary reason we have to deal with a recalcitrant, hostile Iran nowadays. He was obsessed with defeating the USSR because they were communist, while inexplicably giving a pass to China, which was also communist. That never made any sense. Either one is against communism or not. (Consistency in principles was never a strong suit in US politics.)

I never could understand his popularity either. I think others were baffled by it, too, particularly when people who were once liberals started singing praises for Reagan by the 1980s. That was just...weird. In fact, there was an SNL skit from early 1980 (with Strother Martin as guest host). It was a spoof of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, showing people being transformed into mindless Reagan-supporting zombies. I rememeber that time, and that wasn't that far from the truth. Some people called them "Reagan Robots."
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
Protectionism.
In terms of international trade, the whole laisse faire position us usually posed by right-wing conservative nationalists, who feel that our country can provide for all of it's own needs and the desires of the citizenry; and therefore should crack down on doing business internationally and crack down on imports/exports.
In the current state of technology (i.e. the internet and rapid international freight), the laisse faire attitude is a suicidal naivete, and nationalistic hubris.
Your view of "protectionism" is aligned nicely with the US right-wing conservative Republicans.
I hate wars.
Good. So do we all. There are large industrial organizations who may derive financial gains through the upsale of weaponry; but beyond the few in their administrative offices, almost nobody is actually for war.
That said, Conservatives of today (in the US) by their nature want to hold onto international influence that was once was. They also tend to see the world more in terms of USA uber alles. And as such, are much more likely to launch ill conceived wars (remember, "they will welcome us as heroes in
Always.

Yes. For.
So you always support refugees, and you are for support of foreign governments.
To what extent?
The UN is a support and defense system between allied/friendly nations. If one goes to war, they all help the warring nation. Are you OK with that?
With global warming, there will be larger areas struck by crop failures, flooding, etc.... and that will result in famines. People will become roaming masses (refugees) in numbers never before imagined. Numbers that will strain the food and economies of whatever nations take them in without constraint. All on top of the obvious fear and hatred of the refugees that sort of immigration ALWAYS brings out of the dark corners of human psyches.
BTW - The Conservatives are very much more racist (and violently so) than the Progressive left.
Against. Disgusting and devilish.
Against destabilization of foreign governments. Even when they are slaughtering tens of thousands of others? Of their own people?
I'll grant you this one. Yours is the more left-leaning viewpoint.
For. For. For.

For.
For abortion, childcare, as well as for government funding of basic sciences and specific sciences. In the US, these are the positions of the Progressives, the left, the Democrats.
They are all opposed by the right, the Conservative Republicans.
Good. You're against gun ownership. Your view on this goes (rather harshly) to the left (Democrat) in US politics. Honestly though, most US lefties want to allow gun ownership, but limit it to much tighter regulation on whether mentally ill and violent criminals should be allowed firearms. And keep all private firearms down to simple hunting weapons, and low-capacity pistols.
It's the righties (Republicans) who want everyone to have as many large, military-grade, tank-busters as they can pack in everyone's basements.
For. For. For. For.
You are for gay marriage; adoptions; divorce settlements; trans rights. Then you are a US Democrat. Congratulations!
Right-wingers want all of these rights eliminated; and all of these people to 'disappear' too.
Against. Only legal immigration.
Yep. Both US parties are against illegal immigration, and for legal immigration (wellllllll. The conservatives would rather kick several million US citizens out, if their skin-color, religion, and/or sexual preferences are not up to Conservative "norms"). But out loud, they claim to support legal immigration like the left-wing progressive Democrats do.
Unfortunately, the righties want a wall (like the USSR had in Berlin), complete with machine-guns, land-mines, attack dogs, and in some areas, even crocodile-filled moats. While the lefties would like more guards, and high-tech surveillance of the border, which would be far more effective and far less murderous.
So which do you choose @Estro Felino ? Surveillance and deportation? Or motion-sensing automated machine guns? (PS - you cannot say you are leftist if you choose the latter).
For.
Free universal healthcare.
And you support infrastructure (roads, mail, rail lines, harbors, airports, medical care, power grid; power sources for the grid); worker education for changing markets; racial equality; etc...etc....etc....
All of these things are squarely in the Left wing US Democrats' wheel-house. NOT the right's.
Every time that the POTUS and a significant majority of both houses of Congress are controlled by the left, these things all improve. Any time Republicans hold any of the three positions, or even if there is a slim majority of Dems, the Republicans (who all vote in lock-step like good little Gestapo) are usually able to halt action on the many bills that Dems present to improve our nation.
Any time the Right controls the POTUS and most of Congress, we get tax-cuts solely for the uber-rich and major multinational companies. Deregulation of laws, undeniably resulting in destruction of the environment, with worsened pollution and global warming. Back-pedaling on all scientific endeavors. Curtailed rights, particularly for women, workers, the poor, immigrants (legal or not), and increased levels of zealot divisive Christian white nationalism. :facepalm:
These truths are self-evident if you have your eyes, ears, and brain functioning in the USA over the last 50 years.



Overall @Estro Felino - you seem to have a VERY twisted idea of how politics in the USA actually work. From your posts here, and in many other threads, this confusion on your part seems to derive from your ABSOLUTELY HORRIFICALLY RIGHT-WING-BIASED so called "news sources",
who often have you cheering Fascist, violent, autocratic dictators;
slamming people who are trying to help the working class citizens and the poor,
supporting male-chauvinist pigs (because "real men" should be contemptuous of women, and just use them for sex, then toss them aside).
You yell to the mountain tops that you are Leftist; yet while many of the issues you support (above) are truly consistent with the Democrats/Left in the USA :); .... you have somehow been conned into thinking all these good positions are held by the Righties and not the Lefties. :oops:
And that undeniably SCREAMS that you are getting your views of the USA from extremist right-wing propaganda. :shrug:

As a lawyer (as you've claimed you are) I would have expected a little more investigation into the theoretical "evidence" that you have been given. :(
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
@Estro Felino , you still having explained what you mean by "alpha male".

You keep bringing it up, but you always sidestep whenever you're asked to elaborate. You've also presented Trump and Musk as examples of "alpha males", despite being creepy and gross little goblins.

But regardless of whatever an "alpha male" is supposed to be, no, the problem is unethical, irresponsible, and/or criminal behavior. You know, real world stuff, but your weird fantasies and fetishes.
I have explained it a thousand times.
But it seems you forget. ;)

I have explained it with the difference between Clinton and Berlusconi.

Clinton said: "I did not have sex with that woman"

Berlusconi said: "I have been a hard-working PM since ever, and if sometimes I stare at a pretty girl, it is better to be fond of beautiful girls than being gay".
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
In terms of international trade, the whole laisse faire position us usually posed by right-wing conservative nationalists, who feel that our country can provide for all of it's own needs and the desires of the citizenry; and therefore should crack down on doing business internationally and crack down on imports/exports.
In the current state of technology (i.e. the internet and rapid international freight), the laisse faire attitude is a suicidal naivete, and nationalistic hubris.
Your view of "protectionism" is aligned nicely with the US right-wing conservative Republicans.

Good. So do we all. There are large industrial organizations who may derive financial gains through the upsale of weaponry; but beyond the few in their administrative offices, almost nobody is actually for war.
That said, Conservatives of today (in the US) by their nature want to hold onto international influence that was once was. They also tend to see the world more in terms of USA uber alles. And as such, are much more likely to launch ill conceived wars (remember, "they will welcome us as heroes in

So you always support refugees, and you are for support of foreign governments.
To what extent?
The UN is a support and defense system between allied/friendly nations. If one goes to war, they all help the warring nation. Are you OK with that?
With global warming, there will be larger areas struck by crop failures, flooding, etc.... and that will result in famines. People will become roaming masses (refugees) in numbers never before imagined. Numbers that will strain the food and economies of whatever nations take them in without constraint. All on top of the obvious fear and hatred of the refugees that sort of immigration ALWAYS brings out of the dark corners of human psyches.
BTW - The Conservatives are very much more racist (and violently so) than the Progressive left.

Against destabilization of foreign governments. Even when they are slaughtering tens of thousands of others? Of their own people?
I'll grant you this one. Yours is the more left-leaning viewpoint.

For abortion, childcare, as well as for government funding of basic sciences and specific sciences. In the US, these are the positions of the Progressives, the left, the Democrats.
They are all opposed by the right, the Conservative Republicans.

Good. You're against gun ownership. Your view on this goes (rather harshly) to the left (Democrat) in US politics. Honestly though, most US lefties want to allow gun ownership, but limit it to much tighter regulation on whether mentally ill and violent criminals should be allowed firearms. And keep all private firearms down to simple hunting weapons, and low-capacity pistols.
It's the righties (Republicans) who want everyone to have as many large, military-grade, tank-busters as they can pack in everyone's basements.

You are for gay marriage; adoptions; divorce settlements; trans rights. Then you are a US Democrat. Congratulations!
Right-wingers want all of these rights eliminated; and all of these people to 'disappear' too.

Yep. Both US parties are against illegal immigration, and for legal immigration (wellllllll. The conservatives would rather kick several million US citizens out, if their skin-color, religion, and/or sexual preferences are not up to Conservative "norms"). But out loud, they claim to support legal immigration like the left-wing progressive Democrats do.
Unfortunately, the righties want a wall (like the USSR had in Berlin), complete with machine-guns, land-mines, attack dogs, and in some areas, even crocodile-filled moats. While the lefties would like more guards, and high-tech surveillance of the border, which would be far more effective and far less murderous.
So which do you choose @Estro Felino ? Surveillance and deportation? Or motion-sensing automated machine guns? (PS - you cannot say you are leftist if you choose the latter).

And you support infrastructure (roads, mail, rail lines, harbors, airports, medical care, power grid; power sources for the grid); worker education for changing markets; racial equality; etc...etc....etc....
All of these things are squarely in the Left wing US Democrats' wheel-house. NOT the right's.
Every time that the POTUS and a significant majority of both houses of Congress are controlled by the left, these things all improve. Any time Republicans hold any of the three positions, or even if there is a slim majority of Dems, the Republicans (who all vote in lock-step like good little Gestapo) are usually able to halt action on the many bills that Dems present to improve our nation.
Any time the Right controls the POTUS and most of Congress, we get tax-cuts solely for the uber-rich and major multinational companies. Deregulation of laws, undeniably resulting in destruction of the environment, with worsened pollution and global warming. Back-pedaling on all scientific endeavors. Curtailed rights, particularly for women, workers, the poor, immigrants (legal or not), and increased levels of zealot divisive Christian white nationalism. :facepalm:
These truths are self-evident if you have your eyes, ears, and brain functioning in the USA over the last 50 years.



Overall @Estro Felino - you seem to have a VERY twisted idea of how politics in the USA actually work. From your posts here, and in many other threads, this confusion on your part seems to derive from your ABSOLUTELY HORRIFICALLY RIGHT-WING-BIASED so called "news sources",
who often have you cheering Fascist, violent, autocratic dictators;
slamming people who are trying to help the working class citizens and the poor,
supporting male-chauvinist pigs (because "real men" should be contemptuous of women, and just use them for sex, then toss them aside).
You yell to the mountain tops that you are Leftist; yet while many of the issues you support (above) are truly consistent with the Democrats/Left in the USA :); .... you have somehow been conned into thinking all these good positions are held by the Righties and not the Lefties. :oops:
And that undeniably SCREAMS that you are getting your views of the USA from extremist right-wing propaganda. :shrug:

As a lawyer (as you've claimed you are) I would have expected a little more investigation into the theoretical "evidence" that you have been given. :(
Before answering your questions, may I ask you one little question?
Have you actually studied the history of the European Left?

How Germany had a great leader called Marx....and then Bakunin?
How the Italian leftists had to fight for decades against a disgusting Capitalistic, aristocratic Right-Wing, who wanted to exploit workers and farmers as slaves?
How socialists felt betrayed by the mainstream leftists because they allied with the Catholics?

My thought is the result of European history, so you cannot apply American categories on me.
 
Last edited:

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
A wise man's heart [is] at his right hand; but a fool's heart at his left.
Ecclesiastes 10:2

No offence indended.
Because of historical figures of speech, eg "right hand man" as meaning friend or ally.
Not always. Consider the Tao Te Ching, where the strong general stands at the right, and the wise counselor stands at the left.

Tao Te Ching 31:

Chapter 31

1.
Now arms, however beautiful, are instruments of evil omen, hateful, it may be said, to all creatures. Therefore they who have the Tao do not like to employ them.

2. The superior man ordinarily considers the left hand the most honourable place, but in time of war the right hand. Those sharp weapons are instruments of evil omen, and not the instruments of the superior man;--he uses them only on the compulsion of necessity. Calm and repose are what he prizes; victory (by force of arms) is to him undesirable. To consider this desirable would be to delight in the slaughter of men; and he who delights in the slaughter of men cannot get his will in the kingdom.

3. On occasions of festivity to be on the left hand is the prized position; on occasions of mourning, the right hand. The second in command of the army has his place on the left; the general commanding in chief has his on the right;--his place, that is, is assigned to him as in the rites of mourning. He who has killed multitudes of men should weep for them with the bitterest grief; and the victor in battle has his place (rightly) according to those rites.​
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I have explained it a thousand times.
But it seems you forget. ;)
Probably because it was an inadequate and/or nonsensical explanation.
I have explained it with the difference between Clinton and Berlusconi.

Clinton said: "I did not have sex with that woman"

Berlusconi said: "I have been a hard-working PM since ever, and if sometimes I stare at a pretty girl, it is better to be fond of beautiful girls than being gay".

So "alpha male" just means homophobic? And a "beta male" is someone who lies to the press? That's it? Just arbitrary nonsense?

...and how would this make Trump or Musk "alpha males"? Both are habitual liars, so by your definition would be "beta males", but both are also homophobic, but that would cancel it out at most. Certainly not enough to make them "alpha".

Regardless, I'm fairly certain that those who use such terms don't go by your strange criteria.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Probably because it was an inadequate and/or nonsensical explanation.


So "alpha male" just means homophobic? And a "beta male" is someone who lies to the press? That's it? Just arbitrary nonsense?

...and how would this make Trump or Musk "alpha males"? Both are habitual liars, so by your definition would be "beta males", but both are also homophobic, but that would cancel it out at most. Certainly not enough to make them "alpha".

Regardless, I'm fairly certain that those who use such terms don't go by your strange criteria.
No.

Alpha males are those who are not ashamed of saying that they are into women and that they like having sex with women.

Beta males...well...they are.
;)
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
No.

Alpha males are those who are not ashamed of saying that they are into women and that they like having sex with women.

Beta males...well...they are.
;)

il_fullxfull.3107565779_p7mm.jpg
 

rocala

Well-Known Member
No.

Alpha males are those who are not ashamed of saying that they are into women and that they like having sex with women.
Not an area that I have expertise in but I think that you can Add a second sentence to that with "and are prepared to give those that don't agree to sex, a slap.
 
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