What is the Message of the Book of Job?

[Ben Avraham]

Interesting outlook. I took it to be Job is Everyguy and the "friends" are self-righteous people (preachers, etc) who blame the victim while acting like experts in things they know nothing about.

Equally interesting outlook this one of yours. Once I was watching a TV preacher who criticized the Jews whose suffering was due to their refusal to accept Jesus as the Messiah. As you remind me of, he knew nothing of what he was talking about.

 

[12jtartar]

Source?

And you ARE aware that even God admits to Satan that He was doing this for no good reason, right? Had God been mature and secure in His morality, He would've told Satan off instead of going along with a hazing just to see how Job would react. God and Satan are like the cast of Jack.***, pranking people with dangerous stunts just to see what would happen.

Kelly of the Phoenix,
God never expressed the idea that He was doing anything for no good reason.
The whole book of Job was written to make us know that any man can keep integrity to God, even under the most trying circumstances. Job was an imperfect man, just like we are, and he kept his integrity to God after all kinds of, catastrophes, the killing of his children, antagonism from his three false friends, and the boils that he had from head to feet.
Job tried to be as righteous as he could, so he could not understand why he was suffering so much. Even his wife tried to get Job to curse God so he could die and get out of his torment, Job 2:9,10.
The real message of the book of Job is summed up in the talk between God and Satan at Job:2:4,5. Here Satan said that a man would anything he has, for his life. Notice Satan said a man, meaning all men, not just Job. So God allowed Satan to do all kinds of things to Job, but he was not to take his life.
Even though Job did not understand why he was suffering so much, he did not sin against God, Job 1:21,22, 42:7,8.
All of Job proves that a man, even an imperfect man can maintain integrity to God even under the worst conditions.
Just as important we find at other places in the Holy Scriptures, that we must all endure to the end, to be saved, Matthew 10:22, 24:13.
Also Job shows that God rewards those who remain faithful, Job 42:10-15. Today, we are living at the time just before Jesus returns to earth. To all who are found faithful, will be granted eternal life in a paradise new earth, Revelation 21:1-5.
All these promises of God are expressed in, what is called, The Gospels in Miniature, John 3:16.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I've posted this elsewhere and it bears repeating:

What is disgusting about the story of Job is that God agreed to let all those horrible things happen to Job. The poor guy had his whole family taken from him. He lost everything. On top of that, he was stricken with sores covering his whole body and was in pain all the time. God let all of this happen to this good man just to make a petty, selfish point to Satan and nothing more.

Furthermore, one of the reasons for the story is to explore the issue of suffering - why it happens and how we should respond. But even then, it offers no answers. Job questions why he suffers and God doesn't give him an answer but instead cops an attitude over Job's questioning of him, because we're nothing compared to Yahweh and how dare we question him. So Job just gives up and repents of his questioning attitude. In other words, don't question and just mindlessly worship and praise Yahweh even though he's allowing you to be tormented and tortured. I don't see Job as a shining example of faith. He gave up questioning Yahweh when Yahweh got pissed at him and lectured him for questioning him - in other words, Job only repented after Yahweh put him "in his place". This was a broken and suffering man and Yahweh did not offer any comfort to him. He only rewarded him after gaining Job's unquestioning obedience. It's a terrible story.

So the story presents God as petty and who plays games with humans just to "test" us. But if we lose our faith after having calamity after calamity befall us, we've "failed the test". Excuse me, but that's a load of crap. It's only sensible to lose faith in the biblical god when your life has gone to hell. How dare he hold that against humanity. How callous! And save your claptrap about having faith in some resurrection. You try losing all of your children and see if you never rage at Yahweh over it. Seems that you don't really understand the pain of loss. Honestly, if all that horrible stuff happened to me, I'd probably kill myself.

So we can see that the book of Job is a complete failure at addressing the issue of suffering and how to best respond to it. It offers no answers and I do not recommend that those who are going through harsh times in life turn to it as a source of guidance. Look elsewhere.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I've posted this elsewhere and it bears repeating:

What is disgusting about the story of Job is that God agreed to let all those horrible things happen to Job. The poor guy had his whole family taken from him. He lost everything. On top of that, he was stricken with sores covering his whole body and was in pain all the time. God let all of this happen to this good man just to make a petty, selfish point to Satan and nothing more.

Furthermore, one of the reasons for the story is to explore the issue of suffering - why it happens and how we should respond. But even then, it offers no answers. Job questions why he suffers and God doesn't give him an answer but instead cops an attitude over Job's questioning of him, because we're nothing compared to Yahweh and how dare we question him. So Job just gives up and repents of his questioning attitude. In other words, don't question and just mindlessly worship and praise Yahweh even though he's allowing you to be tormented and tortured. I don't see Job as a shining example of faith. He gave up questioning Yahweh when Yahweh got pissed at him and lectured him for questioning him - in other words, Job only repented after Yahweh put him "in his place". This was a broken and suffering man and Yahweh did not offer any comfort to him. He only rewarded him after gaining Job's unquestioning obedience. It's a terrible story.

So the story presents God as petty and who plays games with humans just to "test" us. But if we lose our faith after having calamity after calamity befall us, we've "failed the test". Excuse me, but that's a load of crap. It's only sensible to lose faith in the biblical god when your life has gone to hell. How dare he hold that against humanity. How callous! And save your claptrap about having faith in some resurrection. You try losing all of your children and see if you never rage at Yahweh over it. Seems that you don't really understand the pain of loss. Honestly, if all that horrible stuff happened to me, I'd probably kill myself.

So we can see that the book of Job is a complete failure at addressing the issue of suffering and how to best respond to it. It offers no answers and I do not recommend that those who are going through harsh times in life turn to it as a source of guidance. Look elsewhere.

Every thing above that you have learned as a result of reading the book of Job, you must not take any thing seriously because the whole book of Job is an allegory. Literally, if you read "The Guide for the Perplexed" by Moses Maimonides, the personage Job never existed. In an allegory every thing is possible even for an evil concept personified as Satan to persuade God to change His mind as a man does. A good evidence for you is that, every thing Job lost in this allegory, he got all back with a plus. Now, what is the message of the book of Job? It is at the end of the book, last chapter 42:7-10. The message of the book of Job is to teach the role of Israel qua Immanuel between God and man. Job meant Israel and his friends the Gentiles. The Lord had rejected the testimony of his friends and required a sacrifice to justify them. However, the sacrifice had to be offered by Job, not by them so that his friends the Gentiles be accepted before the Lord. That's the role of Israel qua Immanuel.

 

[Muffled]

Equally interesting outlook this one of yours. Once I was watching a TV preacher who criticized the Jews whose suffering was due to their refusal to accept Jesus as the Messiah. As you remind me of, he knew nothing of what he was talking about.

I believe He was right. However one must acknowledge that an evil let loose is the work of the devil who most likely takes great delight in inflicting pain on Jews. So it might look the same if God had actually declared Jews righteous but He has not done that.

 

[Muffled]

According to the covenant no one in Israel can be blind if everyone is in compliance and people can only be suffering if someone is not in compliance. Perhaps what Jesus is suggesting is that the man's blindness isn't due to a personal sin by himself or by his parents either but is a sign that the nation has a problem. If the covenant has value then the man can't be blind unless someone has sinned. It could also be that Jesus is voiding the blind man's sin by denying its existence, much like he insists that a dead girl is merely asleep instead of saying that he's raising her from the dead. Which thing is stranger -- to deny that a dead person is dead or that a sinner has no sin? So there are many things to consider about the passage with the blind man.

I believe it raises a valid question. Can God inflict a righteous person with blindness just so the glory of God can be displayed. I believe the book of Job says yes He can do that. And what will we say when the righteous Jesus has to endure crucifixion? What He inflicts on others He is also willing to endure Himself. And yet the disciples counted it all joy to receive the sufferings they did not deserve on behalf of Jesus.

 

[Muffled]

Earlier you questioned the difference in treatment between Job (who seems to have been punished for no wrong) and Israel (who would be punished for wrongs). I was pointing out that perhaps Job's treatment, not being part of the covenant is unrelated to those who were in it.

I believe you should consider the concept of collateral damage. There may have been a righteous person in Israel when they went into the Babylonian captivity (Jeremiah for instance) but he still suffered through it.

 

[Sonofason]

OK? Do you know many people who admit God's rebuke? I think I know none personally. So...I do not know what you are saying. He believes in God for good or bad. Many people stop believing in God when things get rough.

I agree with this. There are times that I absolutely hate God for not helping me to be the better man that he wants me to be. I get furious with Him. And I have cursed Him. But I know He is there. It would be impossible for me to not believe in Him. By the way, I have a substantial amount of regret for not being more like Job as a result.

 

[Tumah]

I believe you should consider the concept of collateral damage. There may have been a righteous person in Israel when they went into the Babylonian captivity (Jeremiah for instance) but he still suffered through it.

I hope you don't expect me to remember what we were talking about over a month later.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I believe He was right. However one must acknowledge that an evil let loose is the work of the devil who most likely takes great delight in inflicting pain on Jews. So it might look the same if God had actually declared Jews righteous but He has not done that.

Not the work of the devil but the work of man who makes use of his Freewill to do evil. That was a stupid mistake of the fist one who invented the devil to have something else to blame for his wrongdoings. Stupid mistake because to hide oneself behind a devil in order to commit crimes only the criminal will end up in jail not the devil as an evidence that it does not exist.

 

[fallingblood]

I got really excited when I saw this subject. I spent the better part of a semester in college studying the work, and it became one of my favorite books in the Bible. I interpret Job as being a work that argues against the standard theology of the time. The Book of Job is really two works.

The first work is the opening and closing narratives, which reflected an older theology. The second work is the poetry that is sandwiched between the narrative, and effectively argues against the old wisdom.

The narrative portion is the story of Job being righteous, without sin, and G-d allows Satan to really test Job. Job being fully innocent, never questions G-d and just goes with it, and in the end he is rewarded.

The poetic portion, which I think is the most interesting, has Job still maintaining his innocence, but his friends are telling him that he must have done some bad to deserve what he was getting. Job questions G-d, calls G-d out, and basically tells his friends to go stick it.

Job is highly upset, and even challenges G-d. Its a challenge G-d finally accepts, and G-d appears to Job and basically states that things happen because they do. That's part of life, and there may be no real reason besides the fact that life isn't perfect.

What I get out of it is first, we can question G-d. We may not get the answer we want, but that is perfectly fine, and sometimes we should. Two, G-d isn't all powerful, or at least G-d limits G-d's self. We see this with G-d struggling with Leviathan. Third, and most importantly, is that the world isn't perfect, and it isn't meant to be. That there is chaos in the world, and we should embrace that, as chaos allows humans to be humans, and allows them to also create, and thus bring order in a chaotic world, as G-d had done as well.

 

[psychoslice]

My interpretation is that we are not the mind body, that we can never own anything, that we can never die for we were never born, that this world is an illusion, don't get too attached to it for you will suffer.

 

[Muffled]

Not the work of the devil but the work of man who makes use of his Freewill to do evil. That was a stupid mistake of the fist one who invented the devil to have something else to blame for his wrongdoings. Stupid mistake because to hide oneself behind a devil in order to commit crimes only the criminal will end up in jail not the devil as an evidence that it does not exist.

Some people are more easily duped than others; some just love evil. Shall we blame Eve for believing the devil's lie. It was an exceptionally tantalizing lie.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Some people are more easily duped than others; some just love evil. Shall we blame Eve for believing the devil's lie. It was an exceptionally tantalizing lie.

First, the Genesis account of Creation is an allegory. Second, if by the Devil's lie you mean the words of the serpent to Eve, she did not lie. She simply betrayed HaShem by revealing unto Eve that the whole thing was a Catch-22. That HaShem did not really mean that Adam & Eve would immediately die if they ate of the tree of knowledge of good & evil. Except by revealing the secret of HaShem to Eve, the serpent was right. They did not die when they ate of the tree of knowledge. They rather lived a long life.

 

[loverofhumanity]

How do you interpret Job?

To be patient and trust in God.

 

[Amazing Mercy and Grace]

I think the message of Job is simple. Job would regularly take a lamb and slay it and offer it as a sacrifice to God "just in case" his wicked sons were committing sins against God, therefore cover up his wicked son's sins.
I think that God was appalled that Job thought is was so easy to cover his wicked son's sins simply by killing an innocent lamb. Job should have addressed his son's wickedness.
Apparently Job's son's were engaged in incest with their susters, and Job suspected it, and rather than put a stop to it or deal with it, he chose to slaughter an innocent animal to cover such an egregious sin.
God responded accordingly. But he chose not to tell Job that because what was he going to say "I'm killing your children and your animals, and covering you with boils because you make daily sacrifices to me because you fear me greatly? Of course not.
God knew Jobs heart, that he feared God greatly, and he was righteous in all his lifestyle.
Job's only mistake was thinking he could cover up such wickedness in God's eyes that hsi children practiced, simply by slaughtering one of God's innocent creatures.

 

[Amazing Mercy and Grace]

First, the Genesis account of Creation is an allegory. Second, if by the Devil's lie you mean the words of the serpent to Eve, she did not lie. She simply betrayed HaShem by revealing unto Eve that the whole thing was a Catch-22. That HaShem did not really mean that Adam & Eve would immediately die if they ate of the tree of knowledge of good & evil. Except by revealing the secret of HaShem to Eve, the serpent was right. They did not die when they ate of the tree of knowledge. They rather lived a long life.

God said "in the day" that they ate the fruit they would die.
In God;s time, a day is a thousand years. And they both died in less than 1000 years. That same day!

 

[Ben Avraham]

God said "in the day" that they ate the fruit they would die. In God;s time, a day is a thousand years. And they both died in less than 1000 years. That same day!

Where is it written that Adam & Eve died almost 1000 years later in that same day? Please, have mercy! Besides,
in that same day does not at all mean 1000 years into the future. In God's prophetic time, a day is like 1000 years. Although the Garden of Eden was spoken of in terms of an allegory, it was not a prophetic pronouncement. So, the serpent did not lie.

 

[Ben Avraham]

I think the message of Job is simple. Job would regularly take a lamb and slay it and offer it as a sacrifice to God "just in case" his wicked sons were committing sins against God, therefore cover up his wicked son's sins. I think that God was appalled that Job thought is was so easy to cover his wicked son's sins simply by killing an innocent lamb. Job should have addressed his son's wickedness. Apparently Job's son's were engaged in incest with their susters, and Job suspected it, and rather than put a stop to it or deal with it, he chose to slaughter an innocent animal to cover such an egregious sin. God responded accordingly. But he chose not to tell Job that because what was he going to say "I'm killing your children and your animals, and covering you with boils because you make daily sacrifices to me because you fear me greatly? Of course not. God knew Jobs heart, that he feared God greatly, and he was righteous in all his lifestyle. Job's only mistake was thinking he could cover up such wickedness in God's eyes that hsi children practiced, simply by slaughtering one of God's innocent creatures.

AMG, you don't have to compose a whole gospel to explain the message of the book of Job. It is right there in the last chapter: Job 42:7-10. The whole book of Job is an allegory to point to Israel qua Immanuel between HaShem and Mankind. Job represents Israel and his friends the Gentiles. Somehow, the testimony of Job's friends did not please God and a sacrifice was needed to make up for that failure. However, the sacrifice had to be performed by Job to be accepted by HaShem. Job did as he was bid and his friends were accepted by the Lord.

 

[Amazing Mercy and Grace]

Where is it written that Adam & Eve died almost 1000 years later in that same day? Please, have mercy! Besides,
in that same day does not at all mean 1000 years into the future. In God's prophetic time, a day is like 1000 years. Although the Garden of Eden was spoken of in terms of an allegory, it was not a prophetic pronouncement. So, the serpent did not lie.

The scriptures tell you how long Adam and Eve lived, and they both were less than 1000 years old in our time - a year being one trip around the sun. Before they ate the fruit there was no plan for them to die. Gos daid they would die in the day they ate the fruit and we know that a day in God's time is like 1000 years in our time. So the serpent did lie - in God's time - which is the time they were on.