What is the US interest in Ukraine?

[mikkel_the_dane]

By definition, they're both about owning property.
Communism eschews private property.
Socialism has "the people" owning the means of production.
What people expect from each speaks only to origins of the
words, & how people feel about them.

Consider...
We use the word "press" in the context of freedom to
refer to all communication. But if we limited it to the
word's origin, it would mean only printed material.
Words mean what they mean, despite the fact that
some have a rich history.

Yes, words mean what they mean, but that doesn't make their meaning a fact in all cases. That is the limited problem of playing the definition game of words.
So the moment we enter the human part of the everyday world, e.g. what makes some words a fact is that you or I act as if they are a fact. But in either case they are not a fact and without evidence in all cases.
That is what you see unable to understand. In other words you don't seem to understand what you in some cases are subjective. In others you do understand it.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

"USSR was socialist."
"No they're weren't. Socialism is x"
"Ugh, I am sick of people re-defining terms. You can't just SAY a country doesn't fit a particular label just because it doesn't suit you."
[Ten minutes later in the same conversation]
"China is state capitalist."
"Uh, state capitalism isn't capitalism. It's socialism."

True story.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, words mean what they mean, but that doesn't make their meaning a fact in all cases.

Pointless gainsaying.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Pointless gainsaying.

As for your post about the history of Russia, the problem is not just the USSR and communism. It is also the idea of Imperial Russia.

 

[Revoltingest]

As for your post about the history of Russia, the problem is not just the USSR and communism. It is also the idea of Imperial Russia.

Cromulent.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Cromulent.

The problem has several causes for which Russia is an active part of it and it is not just the West. It is also the West.

 

[Revoltingest]

The problem has several causes for which Russia is an active part of it and it is not just the West. It is also the West.

Such a concise meaningful sentence.
Who are you, & what have you done with mikkel_the_dane?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Such a concise meaningful sentence.
Who are you, & what have you done with mikkel_the_dane?

Well, you are not in the real world anymore. Joke aside.

The problem with justifications based on history, is in effect that morality change in some cases.
So yes, Sweden stole Scania, but that is not a justification today to go war with them. That was one example, but the current example is that the understanding of some Russians is that Russia is still an empire.

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, you are not in the real world anymore. Joke aside.

The problem with justifications based on history, is in effect that morality change in some cases.
So yes, Sweden stole Scania, but that is not a justification today to go war with them. That was one example, but the current example is that the understanding of some Russians is that Russia is still an empire.

Whuh?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Whuh?

I have a different understanding of the effect of the history of Russia than you. In effect I prefer another understanding.

 

[Revoltingest]

I have a different understanding of the effect of the history of Russia than you. In effect I prefer another understanding.

I understand.

 

[shunyadragon]

I fail to see why you quoted me there. Was it a mistake of yours?

I intended to respond to @Revoltingest

 

[shunyadragon]

I know he's not a communist.
But he's part socialist.

I do not see any intent of Putin as endorsing a 'part socialist.'

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I understand.

Now, one thing you can observe in some debates is the idea that foreign policy is solely about national self-interest to the point of that the rest of the world doesn't matter. That idea has a limit in practice. The other one is that great states will remain great as emperies. That is not a given.

 

[Revoltingest]

I do not see any intent of Putin as endorsing a 'part socialist.'

Never said he did "endorse" it.
Behavior of a politician doesn't always comport with their words.

 

[Revoltingest]

Now, one thing you can observe in some debates is the idea that foreign policy is solely about national self-interest to the point of that the rest of the world doesn't matter. That idea has a limit in practice. The other one is that great states will remain great as emperies. That is not a given.

Self interest cannot be divorced from interactions with others.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Self interest cannot be divorced from interactions with others.

No, but there is a difference of trying to consider other humans as equal versus not.

 

[Revoltingest]

No, but there is a difference of trying to consider other humans as equal versus not.

Foreigners are never equal to us.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Foreigners are never equal to us.

Yeah, you are worthless since you are a foreigner.
That is the problem with not accepting that we are all as humans.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, you are worthless since you are a foreigner.

That is true to foreigners.
So it goes.