What is wrong (or right) with inter-racial and inter-religious marriages?

[Aupmanyav]

Predator religions huh? What about the Hindus attacking African students? Isn’t that predatory?

Yeah, that happens. Our cultures are so different. What is considered normal in Europe or Africa may not be considered normal in India - for example drinking, drugs, loud music, dancing till early morning hours. The neighbors object and there are conflicts. Dress, expression of intimacy in public is not appreciated. If the students come to India, they need to understand the culture of the place where they stay and act accordingly. Many people from Africa who enroll as students in India are really engaged in drug trafficking, computer crimes or other nefarious activities. Many are arrested. How do you think Indians will have a nice view about them?

Nigerians constitute 40% of foreigners held for drug crimes in India in ’17: NCB (National Crime Bureau)https://indianexpress.com/article/i...d-for-drug-crimes-in-india-in-17-ncb-5141112/
Drug Trafficking in India and African Connection | Society for the Study of Peace and Conflict
Delhi Police busts international drug cartel with arrest of Nigerian national
Check Google for more.

 

[Vinayaka]

I’m expanding this discussion here which was a topic from the Hinduism DIR regarding an issue of a Muslim man wanting to perform a ritual for his deceased wife who was Hindu.

Among some of the comments, @Aupmanyav was against inter-religious marriage which is fine, but it posited the question in my mind whether orthodox believers of religion are for or against inter-religious marriage? I ask the same regarding inter-racial relationships.

I have to ask why are humans who can create civilizations and books infused with wise words or have cities named after specific cultures, against the exchange of culture whether it’s food or our very sons and daughters?

What example or excuse could one make where they are against the sharing of culture and religion with another member of the same species?

From my own experience in observing them over more than a few years, I can say that it varies widely. From what I've seen, it's getting easier, as people become less and less religious. In the case where one or both are deeply religious, the challenges are plentiful, and I've seen about six or seven such cases that ended in divorce. How to raise the children seems more important that that initial love infatuation after a while.

I think it can work, but not without effort. Same faith marriages, I believe will work better, simple because it gives the family more experiences to share and there are fewer challenges.
But there are also challenges in other differences, like intelligence, rural versus urban, and more.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Yeah, that happens. Our cultures are so different. What is considered normal in Europe or Africa may not be considered normal in India - for example drinking, drugs, loud music dancing till early morning hours. The neighbors object and there are conflicts. Dress, expression of intimacy in public is not appreciated. If the students come to India, they need to understand the culture of the place where they stay and act accordingly. Many people from Africa who enroll as students in India are really engaged in drug trafficking, computer crimes or other nefarious activities. Many are arrested.

Wow very interesting.

You know what’s ironic is many Indians are told they better understand its ‘Murica when they come here (to the United States). I find it funny when historically disenfranchised minority groups like Native Americans, Indians, Africans, Jews, black Americans, and homosexuals et al do the same very thing they have historically endured.

With bias, I can understand the wariness of some African-Americans regarding sharing their culture with others but it seems contradictory for Hindus to call another faith predatory, considering this group does the same thing it disdains.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

From my own experience in observing them over more than a few years, I can say that it varies widely. From what I've seen, it's getting easier, as people become less and less religious. In the case where one or both are deeply religious, the challenges are plentiful, and I've seen about six or seven such cases that ended in divorce. How to raise the children seems more important that that initial love infatuation after a while.

I think it can work, but not without effort. Same faith marriages, I believe will work better, simple because it gives the family more experiences to share and there are fewer challenges.
But there are also challenges in other differences, like intelligence, rural versus urban, and more.

The key is effort

 

[LuisDantas]

Wow very interesting.

You know what’s ironic is many Indians are told they better understand its ‘Murica when they come here (to the United States). I find it funny when historically disenfranchised minority groups like Native Americans, Indians, Africans, Jews, black Americans, and homosexuals et al do the same very thing they have historically endured.

With bias, I can understand the wariness of some African-Americans regarding sharing their culture with others but it seems contradictory for Hindus to call another faith predatory, considering this group does the same thing it disdains.

Does it, though? I am still unconvinced that it does with any regularity or frequency.

I do not doubt your sincerity, but at face value it sure feels like a false equivalence.

 

[Quintessence]

What example or excuse could one make where they are against the sharing of culture and religion with another member of the same species?

I can think of many (though I would call them reasons rather than label them pejoratively as excuses). The crux of it boils down to that outsiders fail to understand or respect a culture/religion as it is seen or practiced by its adherents. This leads to a number of unsavory consequences:

• Intolerance - outsiders may find your ways disagreeable, and even try to destroy them. While it's nice to believe that when we share something with someone else they'll simply accept us for who and what we are, that does not always happen. It is, unfortunately, not uncommon for humans to respond to diversity with a "kill it with fire" approach.
• Appropriation - outsiders may take your ways and twist them to their own purposes. Sometimes, this is done in a way that is respectful. Other times, it is not. Depending on how you swing, one or both of these may be considered problematic. Your traditions are yours, and you don't want someone mucking around with them.
• Naysaying - outsiders may critique and criticize your ways unproductively. Most of us tend to be bothered on some level when others throw punches at things we love. It leaves wounds that diminish not just us but the object of our affection. One is subjected to enough internal disputes without having to deal with such blows from outsiders.
• Erasure - outsiders may misconstrue your ways such that that negates or dismisses them. In fairness, outsiders do this because they are trying to understand. But to wrap their heads around your ways, sometimes they ignore your stories and replace them with their own. For example, those people were "really" doing this. No, they weren't.

All of these things together serve to erode against your ways of life. Thus, the central reason for not sharing something with someone else is to protect it and preserve it. In the case of marriage, if you marry outside of your tradition, inevitably you are going to loose something of your ways. That's the cost of the relationship. It's why it's important to make sure the benefits are worth that sacrifice. And why some traditions may prohibit it entirely.

That said, I focus on the negatives here. There are also, without a doubt, positives that come out of sharing traditions with others. Especially if your tradition is one that is regularly open to creating new rituals or experiences.

 

[Vinayaka]

The key is effort

All marriages take some effort.

People change. They get older, they mature, they get grumpier. They lose their spark, they lose their job. It's sad that stuff ends in divorce, but sometimes it's far more than just a lack of effort. Bottom line is they should never have gotten married in the first place.

Sometimes it really naive and unrealistic expectations. A person can't just take on another religion or culture just because their spouse wants them too.

 

[Aupmanyav]

You know what’s ironic is many Indians are told they better understand its ‘Murica when they come here (to the United States). I find it funny when historically disenfranchised minority groups like Native Americans, Indians, Africans, Jews, black Americans, and homosexuals et al do the same very thing they have historically endured.

With bias, I can understand the wariness of some African-Americans regarding sharing their culture with others but it seems contradictory for Hindus to call another faith predatory, considering this group does the same thing it disdains.

I don't exactly understand what you want to convey. Sure, if Hindus go to America, they need to go by what the Americans do. If they don't, then they are creating problems for themselves. For example, their children may like to marry people from other religions or other races. Then they should not complain. If they wanted to remain exclusive, why did they go to America or in some other such country?

Except for Hare-Krishnas, Hinduism is not predatory. We do not go out trying to convert people to Hinduism. Yes, some people come to us on their own and we, sure, welcome them.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Does it, though? I am still unconvinced that it does with any regularity or frequency.

I do not doubt your sincerity, but at face value it sure feels like a false equivalence.

It’s not. Often times minorities have stereotypes of each other hence @Aupmanyav position considering his comment about Islam being a “predatory faith.” Hindus have gotten mistreated by Americans since 9/11. Beaten up including Sikhs, and people who wear ethnic clothing yet some of the people of Hindu culture do the same thing that has been done to them here that is my point.

Do you need more proof?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I don't exactly understand what you want to convey. Sure, if Hindus go to America, they need to go by what the Americans do. If they don't, then they are creating problems for themselves. For example, their children may like to marry people from other religions or other races. Then they should not complain.

Except for Hare-Krishnas, Hinduism is not predatory. We do not go out trying to convert people to Hinduism. Yes, some people come to us on their own and we, sure, welcome them.

Trying to convert someone isn’t predatory but it can be perceived that way. There are plenty Muslims in Cali that don’t care if you’re Hindu but apparently you think based on your experiences all Muslims are in some way based on your perceived experiences predatory. It’s an unfair judgment. How about if I judged all Hindu Indians as racist considering the amount of times they follow me in 7 eleven all the while they have a picture of their god posted in the store?

How ironic a Hindu can believe in a benevolent deity but cannot emulate the very deity they generate. There is a level hypocrisy.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Excuse me, I am not aware of what 7 eleven is. If the store is owned by a Hindu, then they have a right to keep the photo of their deity somewhere around. Why should you complain?

No. It is not hypocrisy. It is practicality. I do not know how much you know about the philosophy of non-duality in Hinduism. I believe that all things in the universe without any exception are constituted by just one entity. But there are two levels of reality. The absolute and the pragmatic, i.e., the world as it is. Differences do not exist in absolute reality but they do exist in the lower-level pragmatic reality.

Often times minorities have stereotypes of each other hence @Aupmanyav position considering his comment about Islam being a “predatory faith.” Hindus have gotten mistreated by Americans since 9/11. Beaten up including Sikhs, and people who wear ethnic clothing yet some of the people of Hindu culture do the same thing that has been done to them here that is my point.

Hindus have had the worst experience with Islam all through the history to the present day. India still houses the world's third largest population of Muslims at some 180 million and they are not badly off. As for some Hindus being racially targeted in America, I can understand that. There are always all kinds of people everywhere. That is the risk one takes when one goes to a foreign country. That is why I never wanted or want any member of my family to leave India (though my grand daughter tells me that she can earn ten times more in US than in India. She will be completing her dentistry course in about two months and we have good contacts in US). No place like home even with all the problems it may entail. Africans are not targeted because of their ethnic dress (nearly all will wear Western dresses in India), but for their actions which do not match with our ways.

 

[pearl]

I ask the same regarding inter-racial relationships.

Anyone old enough to remember when inter-racial marriages were illegal? The classic film, 'Guess Whose Coming to Dinner' brings the complications of the time into focus. But I think we would admit, thanks to the present forces, resentment may be outspoken again.
As for mixed religious marriages, much may be learned from each other's religion, sometimes finding they're not as opposed as first thought. I think it obvious such a situation requires a more liberal mindset, not one where the practice of religion is placed before the good of the other. Again with the films I am reminded of "Not Without My Daughter. '

 

[LuisDantas]

It’s not. Often times minorities have stereotypes of each other hence @Aupmanyav position considering his comment about Islam being a “predatory faith.”

There are other explanations for such a comment, as we both well know.

Hindus have gotten mistreated by Americans since 9/11. Beaten up including Sikhs, and people who wear ethnic clothing yet some of the people of Hindu culture do the same thing that has been done to them here that is my point.

Do you need more proof?

Yep.

 

[LuisDantas]

Trying to convert someone isn’t predatory but it can be perceived that way.

All the more so when it actually is predatory, which happens very often in some contexts.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

There are other explanations for such a comment, as we both well know.



Yep.

Sad when I type "Hindu mob beats up African students" this comes up:

Africans being attacked by roaming mobs in India

 

[Epic Beard Man]

All the more so when it actually is predatory, which happens very often in some contexts.

Address all the issues I love how you block out things I say against Hinduism. You did the same in the other thread You definitely have a bias. Hindus from India practice the same discriminatory tactics as Jews and Muslims that I've experienced. Hinduism is no different. You need to get over it and deal with it. I'm not even from the continent of Africa (although ancestrally it's my homeland) I can understand. I know you want to believe Hinduism is no different than the Abrahamic faiths and I know you want to believe that Buddhism is less different than the popular Abrahamic faiths but its the same in my book. I have more of a right to say because I'm more than likely exposed to these faiths more than anyone on this website considering I live in a big state next to New York. I'm sure right now I bet I can go to any store in Cali and meet an Indian Sikh female or Hindu female and her father would disown her. There is a lot within Indian culture that is backward and Hindus much like Sikhs or any Dharmic faith cannot talk about any Abrahamic faith. They suffer the same ill and contradictions as those in the Abrahamic traditions.

I live in a more diverse part of the world than you sorry I have a say so. I suggest you watch the movie starring Denzel Washington Mississippi Masala.

 

[Father Heathen]

Believing that mere physical characteristics should be a concern is stupid, but actual beliefs and values can conflict with one another.

 

[Cacotopia]

That is the correct answer way as we are homo sapiens

I was thinking he meant like with a goat or a rat.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Africans being attacked by roaming mobs in India

Reported by a Muslim in UK media. I doubt it. Someone there must have been dealing in drugs even if the person who was attacked might not have been. That happens in mob attacks. The real culprit escapes because he is smarter and someone else gets caught. And in India, it is possible that the real culprit pays bribe to police not to be arrested. That only worsens the story.

I'm sure right now I bet I can go to any store in Cali and meet an Indian Sikh female or Hindu female and her father would disown her. There is a lot within Indian culture that is backward and Hindus much like Sikhs or any Dharmic faith cannot talk about any Abrahamic faith. They suffer the same ill and contradictions as those in the Abrahamic traditions.

Yeah, I too do not like marriages between Hindus and people of Abrahamic faith. Allow us to remain backward. I do not think it is necessary for us to ape the ways of other people. We have our own ways.

 

[sayak83]

I'm sorry did you just say inter-species marriage.?

Yes certainly. Hidimbi and Bhima for example.

Hidimbi - Wikipedia

Or Arjuna and Ulupi
Ulupi - Wikipedia