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What is wrong (or right) with inter-racial and inter-religious marriages?

Cacotopia

Let's go full Trottle
This thread reminds me of Bulworth rap bit where he thinks we should just bang each other down into a light mocho flavor of human. I don't actually see anything wrong with that. But then we would lose a lot of the unique qualities we all share. It would be a heavy toll to pay to remove just one thing that divides us all.

"You stick with your own see?! You stick with your own" (1920's voice)

 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It’s not. Often times minorities have stereotypes of each other hence @Aupmanyav position considering his comment about Islam being a “predatory faith.” Hindus have gotten mistreated by Americans since 9/11. Beaten up including Sikhs, and people who wear ethnic clothing yet some of the people of Hindu culture do the same thing that has been done to them here that is my point.

Do you need more proof?
Hinduism does not magically transform people into shining angels of humanity and brotherhood. It depends on the person itself, obviously. How can it be any other way?
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It’s not. Often times minorities have stereotypes of each other hence @Aupmanyav position considering his comment about Islam being a “predatory faith.” Hindus have gotten mistreated by Americans since 9/11. Beaten up including Sikhs, and people who wear ethnic clothing yet some of the people of Hindu culture do the same thing that has been done to them here that is my point.

Do you need more proof?
The rich history of African folk in India,
Africans in India: From slaves to reformers and rulers
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
From your link:

"The people who have heard of Malik Ambar, for example, generally do not know he was Ethiopian. Does it mean that these men's origin was so irrelevant that it was useless to mention it, or is this historical erasure the product of a conscious denial of the African contribution?" she asks.

Nothing like that. They just became Indians.
"Sidis of Gujarat" - Google Search
The Sidi Project | Luke Duggleby | Galli Magazine
 
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Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Reported by a Muslim in UK media. I doubt it. Someone there must have been dealing in drugs even if the person who was attacked might not have been. That happens in mob attacks. The real culprit escapes because he is smarter and someone else gets caught. And in India, it is possible that the real culprit pays bribe to police not to be arrested. That only worsens the story.Yeah, I too do not like marriages between Hindus and people of Abrahamic faith. Allow us to remain backward. I do not think it is necessary for us to ape the ways of other people. We have our own ways.

I call it backward because religious convictions are personal relationships with their cherished deities. Cultural exchange is good as we all are a part of the same human family. But carrying bigoted views on being against inter-religious marriages makes you no better. There is no legitimate reason to be against it. A Muslim man in your DIR married a Hindu something against Islam (meaning Muslims are prohibited marrying polytheists) but this man transcended a Quranic rule and followed his heart. He saw beyond her faith and even engaged in her faith in a respectful manner. I don’t see how no Hindu cannot respect that.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Hinduism does not magically transform people into shining angels of humanity and brotherhood. It depends on the person itself, obviously. How can it be any other way?

Okay fair enough. I just don’t like the rosy colored pictures that some Hindus paint of their faith and of their deities yet demonstrate the ugliness that infects the human psyche. I hold the same views of those of the Abrahamic faith. In fact I’m more critical. I find the irony of humans talking about the mercy of their god but do not emulate the teachings behind it.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher

Very nice read. But it does nothing to overshadow the darkness over India concerning its caste system. One of the benefits of being a secular thinker is I’m not bound by any theological doctrine or religious dogma. I’m not bound by any books or prophetic/Guru sayings except by my own. My point in saying this is, yes it’s nice to see the transformation of people who come to India to contribute to that country, but those Hindus or Sikhs or Buddhists or Jainists in those lands that have the superiority complex contradict the very values they hold dear. All I’m saying is it is ironic one can read about being devoted to God and doing pious works but are bigoted to their human neighbor.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I call it backward because religious convictions are personal relationships with their cherished deities. Cultural exchange is good as we all are a part of the same human family. But carrying bigoted views on being against inter-religious marriages makes you no better.
Is marriage necessary for cultural exchange? Have your exchange without thinking of marriage. Don't you have friends from other religions (if you go by Quran, you should not have friends from other religions, certainly not from among polytheists)? If you call that backward, you are welcome to your views. As I said, let us remain backward. The gentleman should have renounced his Islam because he was not following Allah's and Prophet's (ṣallā llahu ʿalayhi wa-ʾālih) instructions. He was a 'Munafiq' - a hypocrite. You can't do that.

- When the hypocrites come to you, [O Muhammad], they say, "We testify that you are the Messenger of Allah ." And Allah knows that you are His Messenger, and Allah testifies that the hypocrites are liars.
- They have taken their oaths as a cover, so they averted [people] from the way of Allah . Indeed, it was evil that they were doing.
- That is because they believed, and then they disbelieved; so their hearts were sealed over, and they do not understand.
- And when you see them, their forms please you, and if they speak, you listen to their speech. [They are] as if they were pieces of wood propped up - they think that every shout is against them. They are the enemy, so beware of them. May Allah destroy them; how are they deluded?
- And when it is said to them, "Come, the Messenger of Allah will ask forgiveness for you," they turn their heads aside and you see them evading while they are arrogant.
- It is all the same for them whether you ask forgiveness for them or do not ask forgiveness for them; never will Allah forgive them. Indeed, Allah does not guide the defiantly disobedient people.
- They are the ones who say, "Do not spend on those who are with the Messenger of Allah until they disband." And to Allah belongs the depositories of the heavens and the earth, but the hypocrites do not understand.
- They say, "If we return to al-Madinah, the more honored [for power] will surely expel therefrom the more humble." And to Allah belongs [all] honor, and to His Messenger, and to the believers, but the hypocrites do not know.
- O you who have believed, let not your wealth and your children divert you from remembrance of Allah . And whoever does that - then those are the losers.
- And spend [in the way of Allah ] from what We have provided you before death approaches one of you and he says, "My Lord, if only You would delay me for a brief term so I would give charity and be among the righteous."
- But never will Allah delay a soul when its time has come. And Allah is Acquainted with what you do.
Surah Al-Munafiqun [63]

Now who is a bigot? Us or your ways? Don't try to fool us.
 
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Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Is marriage necessary for cultural exchange? Have your exchange without thinking of marriage. Don't you have friends from other religions? If you call that backward, you are welcome to your views. As I said, let us remain backward. The gentleman should have renounced his Islam because he was not following Allah's and Prophet's (ṣallā llahu ʿalayhi wa-ʾālih) instructions. He was a 'Munafiq' - a hypocrite. You can't do that.
Surah Al-Munafiqun [63]

A forgiveable sin in Islam. Islam says “And we are closer than your own jugular vein.”

God the Creator is aware of all of creation’s capabilities and intent. But when it comes to marriage there is nothing more beautiful than two people of different traditions coming together. This is not a foreign concept. Tribes have been marrying different tribes throughout the ages.

I think sharing one’s faith even if the other doesn’t believe in it is beautiful. I actually like some of the celebratory Hindu dances. I’ve met quite a few Indians of Hindu culture that also is down with engaging with other people’s culture. I think to rid ourselves of the ills of racism, xenophobia, and negative stereotypes we need to get to know each other.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
This thread reminds me of Bulworth rap bit where he thinks we should just bang each other down into a light mocho flavor of human. I don't actually see anything wrong with that. But then we would lose a lot of the unique qualities we all share. It would be a heavy toll to pay to remove just one thing that divides us all.

"You stick with your own see?! You stick with your own" (1920's voice)


The longer we exist as a species our individual cultures will be eventually a thing of the past. Funny part which is ironic is in the Holy Qur’an it is said:

Sahih International: O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.

Surah 49:13

Humanity inevitably will know each other intimately through population increase and us living in the same space. I don’t care how much die hard traditions create this homogenous philosophy down the line their children’s children’s children’s children, will be marrying and mixing with people of different religions and ethnic cultures.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
And who is the most righteous - the one who believes in Allah, follows the instructions in Quran and accepts Mohammad (ṣallā llahu ʿalayhi wa-ʾālih) as the last prophet. The others are Kafirs.
Surah Al-Kafirun [109]

Well, you too are on the border-line case. Take care not to transgress what Allah has ordained. Yes, tribes have been marrying different tribes throughout the ages but that was before Allah sent his final instructions through Mohammad (ṣallā llahu ʿalayhi wa-ʾālih). Now Allah abhors that. Or otherwise, renounce Islam.
 
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Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Well, you too are on the border-line. Take care not to transgress what Allah has ordained. Or otherwise, renounce Islam.

I’m not Muslim where did you get that idea? I am an agnostic-theist who has studied and wrote papers on Islamic philosophy. I don’t know how much and how often I should remind RF of this.

Do I believe in Allah?

Yes.

Just as I believe in Brahman an ultimate reality.

But Allah is beyond a simple text and beyond the language of humanity. Humankind as a species has a long way to go. Humankind unfortunately still suffers from the residual effects of tribalism and other isms
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
If you believe in Allah, then you are not an agnostic.

"Agnosticism is the view that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable. The English biologist Huxley coined the word agnostic in 1869, and said "It simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe."" - Agnosticism - Wikipedia
 
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sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Okay fair enough. I just don’t like the rosy colored pictures that some Hindus paint of their faith and of their deities yet demonstrate the ugliness that infects the human psyche. I hold the same views of those of the Abrahamic faith. In fact I’m more critical. I find the irony of humans talking about the mercy of their god but do not emulate the teachings behind it.
What a world view prescribes and what people do are different matter are they not? For example @Aupmanyav here is a hardcore atheist believing there is nothing other than matter and energy, there are no gods or God, there is no afterlife and no soul. Yet he is strongly committed to all Hindu rituals and acts and speaks as a very conservative Hindu.... despite saying all these rituals and prayers have no effect beyond the material. People are very contradictory that way, acting believing and behaving in incoherent ways. Hinduism says that the reason this is the case is that most people are entangled in a net of illusory egos and desires and have lost sight of their inner Self. I too am not immune to this of course, neither are you. The point is to acknowledge this fact about ourselves as well as in others and strive to get out of the entanglement we have got into and connect with the Self again. So let us still ourselves and focus on the Atman within and the Brahman without, sense the connection between the two and in all beings; and through that connection let us be illuminated with the light of the transcendent, and shine this light in the world.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
People are very contradictory that way, acting believing and behaving in incoherent ways. Hinduism says that the reason this is the case is that most people are entangled in a net of illusory egos and desires and have lost sight of their inner Self.
That is no complement. I do not believe in God/Gods/Goddesses because I am an 'advaitist'. I cannot accept the existence of any thing other than myself (Tat twam asi). I have not renounced my Hinduism, that is why I speak as a Hindu. Hinduism is my heritage and the Gods and Goddesses are deities of my people. There is no contradiction. There is no rule in Hinduism that a Hindu must believe in God. Hindu atheism hails from the time of RigVeda. And then the two realities. At the absolute level there are no two to have a conflict. But at the pragmatic level, many entities exist (though these illusions exist only at the pragmatic level) and conflict is always there. One cannot ignore that reality too. What I have said in my posts in the topic is not to ignore the conflicts of the pragmatic reality. One cannot put his/her head in sand and be oblivious of these conflicts.
 
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Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
If you believe in Allah, then you are not an agnostic.

"Agnosticism is the view that the existence of God, of the divine or the supernatural is unknown or unknowable. The English biologist Huxley coined the word agnostic in 1869, and said "It simply means that a man shall not say he knows or believes that which he has no scientific grounds for professing to know or believe."" - Agnosticism - Wikipedia

Agnostic theism - Wikipedia

Allah is an Arabic name for God. Just as in Malaysian (I think Indonesian) Tuhman means God. It’s a name in another language. If there is one it’s by that name. Just as Brahman is one.
 
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Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
What a world view prescribes and what people do are different matter are they not? For example @Aupmanyav here is a hardcore atheist believing there is nothing other than matter and energy, there are no gods or God, there is no afterlife and no soul. Yet he is strongly committed to all Hindu rituals and acts and speaks as a very conservative Hindu.... despite saying all these rituals and prayers have no effect beyond the material. People are very contradictory that way, acting believing and behaving in incoherent ways. Hinduism says that the reason this is the case is that most people are entangled in a net of illusory egos and desires and have lost sight of their inner Self. I too am not immune to this of course, neither are you. The point is to acknowledge this fact about ourselves as well as in others and strive to get out of the entanglement we have got into and connect with the Self again. So let us still ourselves and focus on the Atman within and the Brahman without, sense the connection between the two and in all beings; and through that connection let us be illuminated with the light of the transcendent, and shine this light in the world.

Sure we live by principles and although some of our behaviors contradict the very principles of what we believe in what does that say about us? What is the value of my belief if I believe in doing right action and moral good but I hold bigoted views?
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
I am personally in favour of inter-racial, inter-religious and international marriages as it can help break the barriers between communities and create bridges between them.

Such marriages have been creditted with creating connections and bridges between different communities, destroying any feelings of enmity or hostility between them due to resultant familiarity and personal contact rather than going by prejudices.

Children born out of such marriages will also be healthier and less susceptible to genetic diseases that comes with marrying within the same community or people consistently.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
That is no complement. I do not believe in God/Gods/Goddesses because I am an 'advaitist'. I cannot accept the existence of any thing other than me (Tat twam asi). I have not renounced my Hinduism, that is why I speak as a Hindu. Hinduism is my heritage. There is no contradiction. There is no rule in Hinduism that a Hindu must believe in God. Hindu atheism hails from the time of RigVeda. And then the two realities. At the absolute level there are no two to have a conflict. But at the pragmatic level, many entities exist (though these illusions exist only at the pragmatic level) and conflict is always there. One cannot ignore that reality too. What I have said in my posts in the topic is not to ignore the conflicts of the pragmatic reality. One cannot put his/her head in sand and be oblivious of these conflicts.
Life itself is incoherent and absurd at the pragmatic level. That is why people are also that way. The incoherence points to the ultimate non-reality of this pragmatic level. In the West too, the existentialists have realized this absurdity of life as it appears to us.
images


I was not criticizing you by the way. That was not the intention.
 
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