What is wrong with idol worship?

[Surya Deva]

So you accept that you worship a book, but not the book itself, the meaning in the book. That's alright, nothing wrong with that. Likewise, Idol worshipper and Hindus worship the idol, but not the idol itself, the meaning in the idol

On the article

Guru Nanak (1469-1539) had rejected the authority of the Brahmans, spurned ritualism and repudiated idol worship. Through gurbani (guru's word), sangat (religious congregation) and guru ka langar (community meal) he endeavoured to fashion a radical theology and create a moral community. However, it was the initiative of the tenth Guru, Guru Gobind Singh (1666-1708), which endowed his followers with a distinct identity.

The Arya Samaj also reject idol worship, and yet they are a sect in Hinduism. Hinduism is wide enough to encompass both idol worshippers and non-idol worshippers. Guru Nanak was a Hindu reformer, a widely respected one as well, he tried to return Hinduism to its original form. He never claimed he was starting a new religion. Sikhism got a more distinct identity only a century later with the 10th Guru. It began as a movement within Hinduism, which was inspired by the Bhakti movement, another movement within Hinduism.

The fact is Sikhism is not that different to Hinduism to be called another religion. All of its philosophies such as samsara, dharma, moksha, naam, atman, karma are all Hindu. I mean come on the first word of the famous Sikh prayer(Mool Mantra) is Ek omkar.

 

[ax0547]

So you accept that you worship a book, but not the book itself, the meaning in the book. That's alright, nothing wrong with that. Likewise, Idol worshipper and Hindus worship the idol, but not the idol itself, the meaning in the idol

On the article



The Arya Samaj also reject idol worship, and yet they are a sect in Hinduism. Hinduism is wide enough to encompass both idol worshippers and non-idol worshippers. Guru Nanak was a Hindu reformer, a widely respected one as well, he tried to return Hinduism to its original form. He never claimed he was starting a new religion. Sikhism got a more distinct identity only a century later with the 10th Guru. It began as a movement within Hinduism, which was inspired by the Bhakti movement, another movement within Hinduism.

The fact is Sikhism is not that different to Hinduism to be called another religion. All of its philosophies such as samsara, dharma, moksha, naam, atman, karma are all Hindu. I mean come on the first word of the famous Sikh prayer(Mool Mantra) is Ek omkar.

It is using common terminology does not make us hindu's - dud he in his own wards is saying that he is not hindu' who are you to judge. And the book that meanings in it - you keep of forgeting the point - idol does not - **** how many time have i told you the definition of idol. according to you there is none other religion budhism are hindu's mulims are hindu's - but in acuality what is hindu ? - you totally missed the point of the article and start making your own alegations - you want me to point each and evry difference. Also the meaning is written in the book - not associated with it. -and it talks about reality - not some fake made up image/information!

Also you are picturing the idol as god - we don't pic our book or meaning - we have an understanding. It is not god it just a holy book with meaning in it. Your question was why is idol worship wrong? beacuse it is associating the idol to unseeable - whats the point of meaning assicated with it here - if itself it is nothing like that it is supposed to be. ! - your are just arguing in circles - and keep on forgetting the point - I am not making an alegation - that is the definition of idol and that is what you are doing.

 

[Surya Deva]

Ax,

Your problem is you have a dogma, but a very ill informed dogma. You are condemning idol worship here, and yet your religion Sikhism engages in idol worship itself.

Your understanding of Sikhism and Hinduism is very poor. Your views sound more political if anything. I am not going to debate what is well known to scholars of Indic religions, Sikhism is derived from Hinduism.
It is not terminology it borrows all the concepts of Hinduism - that is because it is a sect of Hindusim, it's not distinct enough to be called a separate religion.

according to you there is none other religion budhism are hindu's mulims are hindu's

I don't believe I said Buddhists and Muslims are Hindus

 

[ax0547]

The fact is Sikhism is not that different to Hinduism to be called another religion. All of its philosophies such as samsara, dharma, moksha, naam, atman, karma are all Hindu. I mean come on the first word of the famous Sikh prayer(Mool Mantra) is Ek omkar.

OO so now you are going to tell us by showing some words used that we are hindu's - we also beleive in allah what about that - just because a peson was born in certain religion does mean he not could start his own philisophy and ihe did start it - that which is total radical. this does not mean the two pholosophies are same. I agree that during the time of guru nanak, his followers were mostly hindu's who listened to his philosophy but that changed them to a oppsoing and differing philosophy. this does not mean that if the first philosophy says that anyother, even opposing phiosophy is to be considered the first philosophy. second philosophy in acuality the opposing tofirst - Also arya smaj does not have problem with being called a hindu's that their choice, we don't. Would by chance explin that according to your civilized definition what constitutes s "new" religion? The mool mantar say EK ONKAR NOT "OMKAR" - correct yourself. each and every Guru Granth Sahib has it how did you get at this.

 

[ax0547]

Ax,

Your problem is you have a dogma, but a very ill informed dogma. You are condemning idol worship here, and yet your religion Sikhism engages in idol worship itself.

Your understanding of Sikhism and Hinduism is very poor. Your views sound more political if anything. I am not going to debate what is well known to scholars of Indic religions, Sikhism is derived from Hinduism.
It is not terminology it borrows all the concepts of Hinduism - that is because it is a sect of Hindusim, it's not distinct enough to be called a separate religion.

I don't believe I said Buddhists and Muslims are Hindus

dude i am provideing you with examples and so on - yet you are calling dogma ? fi hind's consider sikhs to be hindu's we sikhs cannot change it - But we are sikh not hindu. My understanding of my religion is better than yours - I am Khalsa what a sikh is supposed to be - your opinion is not going to change anything. You are not supporting your claims just say round and round. Dude again trying saying this in gurudwara - you gog get beaten up badly. have the guts! why political - if i am prooving my point now it becomes labeld with political! we borrow concept from islam too - of allah what now?

 

[Surya Deva]

You keep telling me if I said this in a Gudwara I would be beaten up. Perhaps, but that does not mean what I am saying is wrong I am born Sikh myself and belong to a Sikh family, however that does not give me knowledge on Sikhism, the fact that I have studied Sikhism does though. Any scholar of Indic religions would tell you the same. I am not going to engage in a debate on what is well known. I suggest you study Sikhism and Hinduism and come back to me when your're better qualified...

 

[ax0547]

You keep telling me if I said this in a Gudwara I would be beaten up. Perhaps, but that does not mean what I am saying is wrong I am born Sikh myself and belong to a Sikh family, however that does not give me knowledge on Sikhism, the fact that I have studied Sikhism does though. Any scholar of Indic religions would tell you the same. I am not going to engage in a debate on what is well known. I suggest you study Sikhism and Hinduism and come back to me when your're better qualified...

dude i just gave you the article! you say thats wrong too - go suicide - rest of the world recoginzes us as distinct- read the artcile again - it says a sikh is that who believes in SGGS, GURUS AND NON OTHER RELIGION. you just saying i am sikh i am sikh is not gono make you one! - and person who wrote the article is not a scholar according to you! yo are just - peice of ! you don't answer my questoin and just keep on opinionating!

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Dude - - just making an idol is no comparision to what god is. Well worship as I said before is adoration or reverence to. We wroship or adore it by thinking about the concept "god" and then realizing what it in actuality is or is not. You and I both know that god is invisible but manifested through physical. It is the underlying principle that includes and runs the physical. Now If you want to make an Idol for your own mean and personify it as god and start worshiping it = thats illusion - *read the definition clearly*, we pray it for as it is , by learning about and not going into taking a piece of its creation as god. Take it holistically as unseable etc etc. that is essentailly what the reality is not illusion. that piece of rock is going to give you no knowledge unless you use your own brain.

I agree, making an idol is NOTHING like god, no worries there, but it is as close as we will get.

You say you pray it as it is, tell me, what exactly is it? I dont think you get that our worshipping is not directed at the very individual idol itself, we know God is not exactly like this. But by worshipping this idol, we know our prayers are reaching God, which is the whole point of it.

As for the last part about using my brain, i did not understand that.

I gotta say, it takes me time to understand what you are right, im only 13 bro

 

[ax0547]

I agree, making an idol is NOTHING like god, no worries there, but it is as close as we will get.

You say you pray it as it is, tell me, what exactly is it? I dont think you get that our worshipping is not directed at the very individual idol itself, we know God is not exactly like this. But by worshipping this idol, we know our prayers are reaching God, which is the whole point of it.

As for the last part about using my brain, i did not understand that.

I gotta say, it takes me time to understand what you are right, im only 13 bro

This is it "One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace", It is about understanding not picturing it-

 

[want to be hindu]

I agree, making an idol is NOTHING like god, no worries there, but it is as close as we will get.

You say you pray it as it is, tell me, what exactly is it? I dont think you get that our worshipping is not directed at the very individual idol itself, we know God is not exactly like this. But by worshipping this idol, we know our prayers are reaching God, which is the whole point of it.

As for the last part about using my brain, i did not understand that.

I gotta say, it takes me time to understand what you are right, im only 13 bro

You have a open mind and you are kind to others. I think all of us could learn a lot from you.

 

[want to be hindu]

This is it "One Universal Creator God. The Name Is Truth. Creative Being Personified. No Fear. No Hatred. Image Of The Undying, Beyond Birth, Self-Existent. By Guru's Grace", It is about understanding not picturing it-

So now you are telling a 13 year old boy his faith is wrong. Do you believe he should give up that idol worshiping Hindu religion and join your faith ?

 

[ax0547]

So now you are telling a 13 year old boy his faith is wrong. Do you believe he should give up that idol worshiping Hindu religion and join your faith ?

You think the line I posted about god is wrong? No I DON'T WANT you to change your religion. Someone asked me a question and so I clarified it! If you think that was not legitimate its your choice! I am just curious - not to debate or anything but what is definition of god according to vedas or whatever legitimate texts you think. No one answered my question I had asked before. In comparison to " god" who is shiva and ram Ji, were they human - god as human - or ? This not to debate or anything but just for general knowledge!please

 

[Darkwater]

2nd only to Ultraviolet,Dark Wench of the 7 Sea's

Legends by Valkyrie -=_=- Doll Gallery - The 12" range

anyone met any of these? heh heh heh

 

[want to be hindu]

You think the line I posted about god is wrong? No I DON'T WANT you to change your religion. Someone asked me a question and so I clarified it! If you think that was not legitimate its your choice! I am just curious - not to debate or anything but what is definition of god according to vedas or whatever legitimate texts you think.

I think you need to look at a few things that you have said in the past.Calling Hindus Cow Worshipers.

How do you call yourself sikh if you wirship cows and so on. it is totally opposite -

You find as many ways as possable to attack Hinduism. If you find a quote. Its a quote to put Hinduism in the worse possable light you can.

And here the Hymns from Gurbani - in the first it is clearly states that in oeder to provide contentment how people tend to decieve themselves by making idols.
Then there's second one too>

The Hindus have forgotten the Primal Lord; they are going the wrong way.
As Naarad instructed them, they are worshipping idols.
They are blind and mute, the blindest of the blind.
The ignorant fools pick up stones and worship them.
But when those stones themselves sink, who will carry you across? ||

This is a quote aimed at a 13 year old telling him his faith is a lie.

you seem to be not getting the point -you yourself are saying that physical image sticks easily - is that really god? - that is deception.

Cant you see that it is wrong to tell a kid that his faith is a deception? So if you dont want to convert him what are you doing ?

No one answered my question I had asked before. In comparison to " god" who is shiva and ram Ji, were they human - god as human - or ? This not to debate or anything but just for general knowledge!please

I did answer your question.

The Lord Ram is God The Lord Krishna is God. You are God I am God.

Let me use a metaphor. Lets say God is a eternal ocean of bliss. I am just a little ripple in THAT ocean. A Rama , Krishna or even a Jesus is a huge tsunami that changes everything. So I call that special manifestation of Power, an Avatar or God herself.

I hope that this will help you better understand the Hindu point of view.

 

[ax0547]

I think you need to look at a few things that you have said in the past.Calling Hindus Cow Worshipers.



You find as many ways as possable to attack Hinduism. If you find a quote. Its a quote to put Hinduism in the worse possable light you can.



This is a quote aimed at a 13 year old telling him his faith is a lie.



Cant you see that it is wrong to tell a kid that his faith is a deception? So if you dont want to convert him what are you doing ?





I did answer your question.

first of all i don't care you are 13 or 40 - this is debate forum. I am just giving examples from SGGS. I am not teling you to convert but reevaulate what you are doing. don't cry that you are a 13 year old. By the way your answer is still confusing - are there gods human? if so are they "representation of god" or the real "god" god "itslef"!

 

[want to be hindu]

You think the line I posted about god is wrong?

Who am I to say the Sikh path is wrong. The Sikhs have made many great souls. It is a faith that helps people to find the truth. I just believe that the things you say puts Sikhism in a bad light. The world is full of people who insult and hurt each other.Let us all work to the common good.

 

[ax0547]

Who am I to say the Sikh path is wrong. The Sikhs have made many great souls. It is a faith that helps people to find the truth. I just believe that the things you say puts Sikhism in a bad light. The world is full of people who insult and hurt each other.Let us all work to the common good.

what puts sikhsim in bad light - I am quoting directly from SGGS, now if Guru's and i do no accept idol worship, so that becomes putting sikhism in bad light?

 

[ax0547]

Who am I to say the Sikh path is wrong. The Sikhs have made many great souls. It is a faith that helps people to find the truth. I just believe that the things you say puts Sikhism in a bad light. The world is full of people who insult and hurt each other.Let us all work to the common good.

kiddo I totally respect any path you take - but this is a debate forumn - so please don't get offended.

 

[want to be hindu]

first of all i don't care you are 13 or 40 - this is debate forum. I am just giving examples from SGGS. I am not teling you to convert but reevaulate what you are doing. don't cry that you are a 13 year old.

I am sorry any faith that is worth its salt cares about children. Are you saying that kids and adults should be treated the same? Think about what you are saying. It is the job of us all to protect children.

 

[ax0547]

I am sorry any faith that is worth its salt cares about children. Are you saying that kids and adults should be treated the same? Think about what you are saying. It is the job of us all to protect children.

who is 13 years old you? I care about you being a child that is why i am providing you with the other side of coin - you can chooose what ever side you choose!