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What is wrong with idol worship?
- Thread starter Surya Deva
- Start date
herushura
Active Member
"End of World" has double meanings so dont take it litterly. End of World = End of Age, meaning an end to an astrological Age
want to be hindu
Member
Oooh! Oooh! Worship Me! Worship Me!
What makes you think I dont ?:bow: All women are the Goddess
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
Not in my sentence it doesn't.
Mine has nukes, 'n fire, 'n explosions!
After all, I WAS talking about a nuclear style end of the world. Not some guy appearing from the sky with swords 'n killing dragons out of the sea and all that.
blackout
Violet.
mohammed_beiruti
Active Member
ok, listen to the answer
Qura'an Ch.4
[48] Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin most heinous indeed.
[49] Hast thou not turned thy vision to those who claim sanctity for themselves? Nay, but Allah doth sanctify whom He pleaseth. But never will they fail to receive justice in the least little thing.
[50] Behold! how they invent a lie against Allah! but that by itself is a manifest sin!
[51] Hast thou not turned thy vision to those who were given a portion of the Book? They believe in idols and false deities, and say to the Unbelievers that they are better guided in the (right) way than the Believers!
[52] They are (men) whom Allah hath cursed: and those whom Allah hath cursed, thou wilt find, have no one to help.
[53] Have they a share in dominion or power? Behold, they give not a farthing to their fellow-men?
[54] Or do they envy mankind for what Allah hath given them of His bounty? But We had already given the people of Abraham the Book and Wisdom, and conferred upon them a great kingdom.
[55] Some of them believed, and some of them averted their faces from him; and enough is Hell for a burning fire.
[56] Those who reject Our Signs, We shall soon cast into the Fire; as often as their skins are roasted through, We shall change them for fresh skins, that they may taste the Penalty: for Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.
[57] But those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, We shall soon admit to Gardens, with rivers flowing beneath, their eternal home, therein shall they have companions pure and holy: We shall admit them to shades, cool and ever deepening.
Surya Deva
Well-Known Member
Thank you for that Mohammed Beiruti, this is yet more proof that the Quran contains a hate doctrine against non-believers. Your fellow Muslims have been trying to prove that Muslims attacked these idol worshippers to defend themselves. In actual fact, they attacked them for their beliefs, as you have demonstrated.
gnostic
The Lost One
mohammed_beiruti said:
This is not best demostration of the Qur'an for people who have different belief.
The people in ancient time, didn't hate your god, mohammed. Most didn't know your god, they had their own religions, so it wasn't required to know your god. The kingdoms of Judah and Israel were small kingdoms. And the Arabic tribes before your prophet worshipped many deities, and Allah was one among many.mohammed_beiruti said:
When you prophet arrived about just one god, did you really expect every to give up everything they had grown accustomed to, to accept a new religion?
That a god could curse someone because they don't share the same belief as yours, prove how foolishly unjust your god is.
The people your book refer to as lying against Allah is astonishing accusation, when many people didn't even know about him. So it is absolute nonsense that a book would say that idol-worshippers lie about Allah.
At that time, the largest religion was Christianity, not counting those in India and China, where they believed in Hinduism and Buddhism. The rest were pagans, who your book referred to as idol-worshippers.
Only a small percentage of the world's population at that time would have heard of Christianity, and only fraction would know anything about Judaism and Islam, so how on earth can you think a great majority of people would lie about Allah?
And please no more quotes, Mohammed. I don't mind you quoting from your scriptures, but you have to put more effort in communicating your perspective.
Do you think idol-worshippers should be cursed, if they never heard of your religion or your god or your prophet? Is that really fair?
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mohammed_beiruti
Active Member
was you a former Christian or jewish ?
because the core question is
People who were given a portion of the book are jewish and Christian
go back to the post #290 and read it well
.lava
Veteran Member
however that verse is not about how people treat people. that's warning of God to those who saw signs clearly and still preferred to reject God. God punishes them because they are not just Pagans they are actually evil-doers who kill, rape and never regret about it. it is God who punish them in hell, not believers of God. we can only feel sadness for those who lose hope in hell and we pray for happiness of everyone.
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gnostic
The Lost One
.lava said:
Seriously, how many pagan religions do you know today that ask people to go on a killing and raping rampage?
I think know every little about religion that you have no idea what they believe?
Buddhism and Taoism think and believe in non-violent as the way of life.
Druidism think that life is too precious, whether it be humans, animals or plant life.
It is more than I can say about Islam. They had built their empires on conquests, just like any empires, with force of arms.
Even Muhammad is not immune to worldly power.
Even when Banu Qurayza (Jewish tribe) surrendered to him after the short siege, the majority of men were beheaded, except those who converted to Islam, and the rest, women and children, were sold into slavery. Today, historians have doubts about authenticity of any such compact made between Muhammad and the Banu Qurayza.
These Jews already believe in the one god, so why are only the men that converted were spared from beheading.
We only hear one side of this tale that the Qurayza had betrayed the treaty they made with Muhammad. We have no record if what happened to be true from any surviving Jew.
A large part of Muhammad's account is one-sided.
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.lava
Veteran Member
what's your point gnostic and what do you think i am talking about? there is a verse from Qur'an in previous posts and it is about Pagans who started war against Muslims. my reply is about that verse.
Mohammad (PBUH) never aimed to own world. he never started any war. he and his followers were the ones who's been attacked by Pagans. they were Pagans of Macca. Banu (Jewish tribe) joined Maccan Pagans.
they beheaded war prisoners? i don't think so. what's your source for that?
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.lava
Veteran Member
for anyone who cares for the truth;
Harun Yahya - SLANDERS ON MUSLIMS IN HISTORY - Download Page
here is some part of it;
INTRODUCTION
Slander is one of the ugly methods used by dishonest and immoral people whose interests have been damaged, and thus are hostile, angry, and full of ill-feeling toward the people with whom they are in competition or whom they desire to hurt. There are many forms of slander, from organized and systematic schemes to a few words squeezed in between the lines. In societies that are far removed from religious morality and so do not live by Allahs will, slander is frequently used to put others in a bad light. Most of the people who will read this book have probably been slandered to one degree or another or have witnessed others being slandered.
However, this book is not concerned with the little slanders that individuals hurl at each other. Rather, it deals with an altogether different type of slander: that used by those who do not believe in religion to harm believers, whether physically or spiritually.
The Quran reveals that all of Allahs messengers and other devout people who called their societies to abide by the Qurans morality stood accused of avarice, madness, arrogance, theft, and fornication. Yusufs (as) life was full of such examples of slander, as were those of Musa (as), Sulayman (as), and even Prophet Muhammad (saas). Likewise Maryam, the mother of `Isa (as); Aisha, the wife of our Prophet (saas); and his Companions were all exposed to slander. These people always displayed exemplary patience and reliance upon Allah when confronted with slander, disregarded the unbelievers such efforts, and continued to live by the morality ordained by Allah and invite people to the righteous path.
No doubt, such determination is exemplary. Allah reveals: Or did you suppose that you would enter the Garden without facing the same as those who came before you? (Surat al-Baqara, 214). In other words, it is one of Allahs laws that all Muslims, regardless of when and where they live, will be slandered and pressured to abandon the Qurans morality. In another verse, Allah reveals that all believers will hear hurtful words from the unbelievers and will be tested in their possessions and in themselves:
Likewise, when another believer is slandered, his or her fellow believers receive it with patience and zeal, and they rely upon Allah. They believe that, provided that he or she shows patience, their slandered brother or sister will earn Allahs mercy and bounty in this world, as well as our Lords good pleasure and Paradise in the Hereafter.
There is a great benefit in revealing another aspect of slander: Unlike other slanders, the logic of If you throw enough dirt, some of it will stick does not work on believers. Regardless of its apparent severity, in the end it will be known that these devout people have a pure and good character. Both Maryam and Yusuf (as) once stood accused of illicit relations, even though they are known to history as symbols of chastity. Yusufs (as) brothers also accused him of being a thief, but within his lifetime he was recognized as a very trustworthy person and thus was appointed over the stores of Egypt.
All of this shows us a very important reality: It is Allahs will that every plan aimed against believers is destined to be stillborn, and that every piece of slander will come to nothing. Every hurtful word will return to its speaker in the form of punishment. In other words, every speech, deed, and cruelty directed against believers will cause the slanderer to feel deep regret and great suffering in both this world and in the Hereafter. Allah reveals the fate awaiting those who slander His messengers and devout servants:
Harun Yahya - SLANDERS ON MUSLIMS IN HISTORY - Download Page
here is some part of it;
INTRODUCTION
Slander is one of the ugly methods used by dishonest and immoral people whose interests have been damaged, and thus are hostile, angry, and full of ill-feeling toward the people with whom they are in competition or whom they desire to hurt. There are many forms of slander, from organized and systematic schemes to a few words squeezed in between the lines. In societies that are far removed from religious morality and so do not live by Allahs will, slander is frequently used to put others in a bad light. Most of the people who will read this book have probably been slandered to one degree or another or have witnessed others being slandered.
However, this book is not concerned with the little slanders that individuals hurl at each other. Rather, it deals with an altogether different type of slander: that used by those who do not believe in religion to harm believers, whether physically or spiritually.
The Quran reveals that all of Allahs messengers and other devout people who called their societies to abide by the Qurans morality stood accused of avarice, madness, arrogance, theft, and fornication. Yusufs (as) life was full of such examples of slander, as were those of Musa (as), Sulayman (as), and even Prophet Muhammad (saas). Likewise Maryam, the mother of `Isa (as); Aisha, the wife of our Prophet (saas); and his Companions were all exposed to slander. These people always displayed exemplary patience and reliance upon Allah when confronted with slander, disregarded the unbelievers such efforts, and continued to live by the morality ordained by Allah and invite people to the righteous path.
No doubt, such determination is exemplary. Allah reveals: Or did you suppose that you would enter the Garden without facing the same as those who came before you? (Surat al-Baqara, 214). In other words, it is one of Allahs laws that all Muslims, regardless of when and where they live, will be slandered and pressured to abandon the Qurans morality. In another verse, Allah reveals that all believers will hear hurtful words from the unbelievers and will be tested in their possessions and in themselves:
You will be tested in your wealth and in yourselves, and you will hear many abusive words from those given the Book before you and from those who associate [others with Me]. But if you are steadfast and guard against evil, that is the most resolute course to take. (Surah Al Imran, 186)
Every righteous and devout believer who encounters such a situation desires to display the same patience, trust in Allah, sincerity, and determination as those earlier believers. Therefore, they are not shocked or saddened, nor do they give way to despair, when the tests mentioned in the Quran are sent to them. Instead, to the surprise of the slanderers, they show even greater zeal and joy.
Likewise, when another believer is slandered, his or her fellow believers receive it with patience and zeal, and they rely upon Allah. They believe that, provided that he or she shows patience, their slandered brother or sister will earn Allahs mercy and bounty in this world, as well as our Lords good pleasure and Paradise in the Hereafter.
There is a great benefit in revealing another aspect of slander: Unlike other slanders, the logic of If you throw enough dirt, some of it will stick does not work on believers. Regardless of its apparent severity, in the end it will be known that these devout people have a pure and good character. Both Maryam and Yusuf (as) once stood accused of illicit relations, even though they are known to history as symbols of chastity. Yusufs (as) brothers also accused him of being a thief, but within his lifetime he was recognized as a very trustworthy person and thus was appointed over the stores of Egypt.
All of this shows us a very important reality: It is Allahs will that every plan aimed against believers is destined to be stillborn, and that every piece of slander will come to nothing. Every hurtful word will return to its speaker in the form of punishment. In other words, every speech, deed, and cruelty directed against believers will cause the slanderer to feel deep regret and great suffering in both this world and in the Hereafter. Allah reveals the fate awaiting those who slander His messengers and devout servants:
As for those who abuse Allah and His messenger, Allahs curse is on them in this world and in the Hereafter. He has prepared a humiliating punishment for them. And those who abuse believing men and women, when they have not merited it, bear the weight of slander and clear wrongdoing. (Surat al-Ahzab, 57-58)
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gnostic
The Lost One
.lava said:
I am afraid that the whole passage doesn't state anywhere that the pagans make wars on Muslims. It only talk of pagans, not Meccans or Medinians.
You say killing and raping, but no where in those verses state such a thing happening.
mohammed_beiruti said:
No.
And what does it have to do with current question?
I don't see how it is anyone's business even if a person who heard about the Book, and reject it. Everyone has the right to believe and accept, or to not to accept.
Only a tyrant of a god would punish those with fire for not believing.
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.lava
Veteran Member
dear friend, there are many verses about war which were revealed 'during' war. all the wars in time of Mohammad(PBUH) were started by Pagans of Maccan people. i am not saying that every single Pagan joined that war against him.
murdering, raping and not regretting at all is an example for evil-doers. in wars, even before wars of those times, of course Muslims were tortured and killed. raping women, killing new born babies because their gender were female was tradition in that time. parents were condemned by society in case if they refused to kill their daughters. there are some other verses related to those conditions. people who stood against Islam were trying to keep those traditions alive. therefor they were fighting. one single verse does not need to say it all. there are many more. my reply to suraj was caused by his interpretion of that verse. verse tells that God will punish them and he makes it look like Muslims kill disbelievers. not that he only misinterpret the verse, he also ignores the fact that those disbelivers who died were actually attacking first unarmed Muslims (including women, older people, slaves..etc). because of that torment Muslims left their home town Macca and went to Medina. but the same people who used to torture Muslims gathered an army and came to Medina. then war has started and some of them died. some people try to make it look like a bunch of people became Muslims and slayed who rejected Islam. no, that is a lie. they were living together with disbelievers who were peaceful.
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want to be hindu
Member
Most people also dont understand that all Murtis ( Idols as you call them) are also a philosophical explanation of the nature of reality. Let us talk about one Goddess Durga.
This is Her picture.
Durga Painting in the Sanatan Society Indian Art galleries
In this picture she is killing Mahisasurah ( The Great Ego ) the buffalo stands for or animal nature of our Ego. She kills or ego so we can be one with God.
In Her hands she is holding the following weapons to kill our Ego:
Battle axe of Good actions
Pike of concentration
Arrow of good speech
Bow of determination
Sword of the wisdom of worship
Shield of faith
plus others.
All of the images have a meaning. All of them teach you how to live.
This is Her picture.
Durga Painting in the Sanatan Society Indian Art galleries
In this picture she is killing Mahisasurah ( The Great Ego ) the buffalo stands for or animal nature of our Ego. She kills or ego so we can be one with God.
In Her hands she is holding the following weapons to kill our Ego:
Battle axe of Good actions
Pike of concentration
Arrow of good speech
Bow of determination
Sword of the wisdom of worship
Shield of faith
plus others.
All of the images have a meaning. All of them teach you how to live.