ax0547
Sat Sri Akal
can prvide where Ican find the translations of the vedas and all that! This kind of summary!
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What is wrong with idol worship?
- Thread starter Surya Deva
- Start date
can prvide where Ican find the translations of the vedas and all that! This kind of summary!
Personally I don't see anything wrong with idol worship, but it si deemed wrong in some religions because you are worshipping somethign that is ment to repersent god and part of god is the fact that it can not be repersented in a physical form so basically the only problem with idol worship is that other belief look down on it.
ax0547
Sat Sri Akal
I respect your opinion but who is following reality, essentialy?
ax0547
Sat Sri Akal
are grifith translations considered good!
Surya Deva
Well-Known Member
Nope they are not. I have answered this question for you in Women in Hinduism thread.
ax0547
Sat Sri Akal
well i don't want summaries - i want the whole word by word translation.
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
And you would be very wrong, as I no longer worship anything. I am well beyond feeling the need to worship. To be truthful, I am on record for asking why worship is even reasonable to begin with.
gnostic
The Lost One
As far as I can understand it, the idols are merely images or representations of the gods (and goddesses). The idols are not deities themselves. I supposed that misconception that Abrahamic religions have with polytheistic religion. They simply don't understand.
Some people find it also easier to pray in front of the images, where they can concentrate what they are saying in prayers, without distraction.
It like a person practising his speech, but needs audience, so that person concentrate his speech in front of a mirror or something.
Another example is that some people sing or dance without music, but some can't.
Hit it, Eddie. :band:
: hamster :
Some people find it also easier to pray in front of the images, where they can concentrate what they are saying in prayers, without distraction.
It like a person practising his speech, but needs audience, so that person concentrate his speech in front of a mirror or something.
Another example is that some people sing or dance without music, but some can't.
Hit it, Eddie. :band:
: hamster :
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
It doesn't always have to be the Abrahamic religions, though. It seems a bit extreme to say it's only people who follow the Abrahamic religions. I'm sure some people can argue that Catholics "worship idols", whereas the Catholics would say they "venerate icons".
I can understand why people would pray towards the statue the same as why Zoroastrians pray towards a flame, it's a focal point, something for them to concentrate on as they pray. I don't know how many people of the past used to think that their idols were the gods, they worship, but that seems a strange thing, so who knows, it might have just been slander.
I have had a few Muslims tell me before that anyone who prays in front of anything is a worshipper of that thing, which is "why Zoroastrians are "fire worshippers""...
If that kind of belief is used (which is faulty) on every religion, then anyone who prays towards an icon would be an idol worshipper, but also Muslims would be "Kaaba worshippers", Sikhs would also be considered "idol worshippers" (because of the Guru Granth Sahib and the bowing to the "Ek Onkar" in the Gurdwaras), Catholics "Mary and Saint worshippers", etc. We all know this is definitely a gross misunderstanding.
I'm a big fan of religious icons ("idols") for their beauty, but personally I don't like the idea of praying towards them, but for some, they need something more tangible, and that is fine with me.
I can understand why people would pray towards the statue the same as why Zoroastrians pray towards a flame, it's a focal point, something for them to concentrate on as they pray. I don't know how many people of the past used to think that their idols were the gods, they worship, but that seems a strange thing, so who knows, it might have just been slander.
I have had a few Muslims tell me before that anyone who prays in front of anything is a worshipper of that thing, which is "why Zoroastrians are "fire worshippers""...
If that kind of belief is used (which is faulty) on every religion, then anyone who prays towards an icon would be an idol worshipper, but also Muslims would be "Kaaba worshippers", Sikhs would also be considered "idol worshippers" (because of the Guru Granth Sahib and the bowing to the "Ek Onkar" in the Gurdwaras), Catholics "Mary and Saint worshippers", etc. We all know this is definitely a gross misunderstanding.
I'm a big fan of religious icons ("idols") for their beauty, but personally I don't like the idea of praying towards them, but for some, they need something more tangible, and that is fine with me.
mohammed_beiruti
Active Member
Remembrance can be gained by fear from God punishment
many people forgot God , for example :
Adem when he ate from the tree, People of Noah, people of Lot,some of the Israelies when they used the calf to see God more explicitly, and many others...
God punished those people
and we have to learn lessons from these incidents, and to fear from God threat of the hereafter
example to explain more:
if some one told you that a bottle has a poison inside it , don't let your children's hand reach that bottle, would you forget to hide the bottle?
the fear factor will make you remember that advise very well.
if you believed that God can see you everywere and everytime, you will avoid his displeasure, because you will feel shy to do a disgraceful deed in front of him.
and there is no need to see him.
gnostic
The Lost One
Fearing God is not a good motivation for worshipping a deity. Such a god is considered a tyrant in my book, and has nothing to do with him being merciful or loving. There is enough dictators on earth, so I rather not cringe and lick foot for jealous and wrathful god.
A vengeful god is exact opposite of loving god.
A vengeful god is exact opposite of loving god.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
When exactly did i say no?
You must remember that all Hindu's do not follow one doctrine. Hinduism is a diverse religion which does not follow one set of rules. People have different interpretations of things, which ends up in creating a whole different thing.
I may think Krishna is supreme, but Suraj may think Ram is, but in the end we are both right
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
Your being intolerant by telling us we are wrong. You are being intolerant by telling us we are following an illusion. I dont think what you are doing is perfect either, but i know it is not wrong or an illusion.
Don Penguinoini
Modi.
So swearing makes me intolerant? Almost everyone in the world is intolerant then!
You raised this question of contempt:
"It seems you appear to have a contempt towards me having an ideal to work with God to improve myself to eliminate my weaknesses and 'reno' myself into a greater person."
Yes , I do have contempt for your "ideal". And I'll explain why, if you're interested.
Let's hear what you have to say:
"...I do agree that we get a heck of a lot as a result of worshiping God and working with Him by obeying His commandments.... We must take our challenges on day by day, unrelentingly working to overcome our weaknesses - not only ridding ourselves of bad habits but developing good ones.... We earn the privilege of having God's hand guiding our selves [sic] and moulding [sic] us into the people we should want to be. It is an exchange that is ultimately favouring our end by an infinite margin, but that is testament to me of the love of God more than the greed of man".
You confess you have "weakness" and "bad habits" that require unrelenting work to overcome. I am most interested in knowing what you perceive these faults to be, and what type of "unrelenting" work you are engaged in to overcome them.
Let me guess. You feel alone and confused. You want to feel loved and to be part of something greater than yourselfsomething beautiful and meaningful. One solution would be to educate yourself in the areas that you lack knowledge and understanding. The downside of this approach is twofold:
1) It really IS challenging, and it really IS work.
2) You may not find the warm fuzzy "answers" that comfort you.
Let's be perfectly clear: You are NOT interested in this approach because you have already made up your mind exactly what it is that you are looking for; it comes wrapped up in a pretty package that offers you all the cozy truths you so sadly need. Not only do you lack the inquisitive mind that a dispassionate quest for knowledge demands, you simply don't have the guts. Yet, with transparent humility, you congratulate yourself for your "hard work", which you claim "is not a pain free process", although you admit that it is "ultimately favouring our end by an infinite margin" (i.e., a sugar-coated world) "but that is testament to me of the love of God more than the greed of man". My my, you are quite the noble one. aren't you?
Yes I do have contempt for your "weakness". It is the same affliction shared by every other "believer".
You take a lazy shortcut to life which fulfills all your wants and needsa sense of belonging, feeling "special", unconditional love, everlasting lifeall the comforts anyone could ever wish for. And you have the audacity to brag that you rise above "the greed of man."
Such lunacy is more than tedious, it truly is contemptible.
"It seems you appear to have a contempt towards me having an ideal to work with God to improve myself to eliminate my weaknesses and 'reno' myself into a greater person."
Yes , I do have contempt for your "ideal". And I'll explain why, if you're interested.
Let's hear what you have to say:
"...I do agree that we get a heck of a lot as a result of worshiping God and working with Him by obeying His commandments.... We must take our challenges on day by day, unrelentingly working to overcome our weaknesses - not only ridding ourselves of bad habits but developing good ones.... We earn the privilege of having God's hand guiding our selves [sic] and moulding [sic] us into the people we should want to be. It is an exchange that is ultimately favouring our end by an infinite margin, but that is testament to me of the love of God more than the greed of man".
You confess you have "weakness" and "bad habits" that require unrelenting work to overcome. I am most interested in knowing what you perceive these faults to be, and what type of "unrelenting" work you are engaged in to overcome them.
Let me guess. You feel alone and confused. You want to feel loved and to be part of something greater than yourselfsomething beautiful and meaningful. One solution would be to educate yourself in the areas that you lack knowledge and understanding. The downside of this approach is twofold:
1) It really IS challenging, and it really IS work.
2) You may not find the warm fuzzy "answers" that comfort you.
Let's be perfectly clear: You are NOT interested in this approach because you have already made up your mind exactly what it is that you are looking for; it comes wrapped up in a pretty package that offers you all the cozy truths you so sadly need. Not only do you lack the inquisitive mind that a dispassionate quest for knowledge demands, you simply don't have the guts. Yet, with transparent humility, you congratulate yourself for your "hard work", which you claim "is not a pain free process", although you admit that it is "ultimately favouring our end by an infinite margin" (i.e., a sugar-coated world) "but that is testament to me of the love of God more than the greed of man". My my, you are quite the noble one. aren't you?
Yes I do have contempt for your "weakness". It is the same affliction shared by every other "believer".
You take a lazy shortcut to life which fulfills all your wants and needsa sense of belonging, feeling "special", unconditional love, everlasting lifeall the comforts anyone could ever wish for. And you have the audacity to brag that you rise above "the greed of man."
Such lunacy is more than tedious, it truly is contemptible.
Surya Deva
Well-Known Member
Andys not everybody worships something because they want warm and fuzzy answers that comfort them. Worship is one of the highest expressions of being a human being, the ability to humble yourself to something else, to feel love and loyalty to it is definitely a very virtuous and human quality. One can worship god, they can worship their parents, they can worship knowledge.
I sense in your post a sort of pessimism and resentment for life. I kind of resignation that the world is this thankless and horrible place, and people who don't want to believe that are kidding themselves. Maybe, or maybe that is just your subjective view, and there are people who see it optimistically and with affection, who perhaps even worship the sun's rays that kiss their face, who may worship the breeze that flirts with their skin, who may worship the air that enlivens them, or knowledge that enlightenes them. Perhaps there are people who see this entire universe as the dance of life.
I don't think you have any right to condemn others views just because you don't see it like that
I sense in your post a sort of pessimism and resentment for life. I kind of resignation that the world is this thankless and horrible place, and people who don't want to believe that are kidding themselves. Maybe, or maybe that is just your subjective view, and there are people who see it optimistically and with affection, who perhaps even worship the sun's rays that kiss their face, who may worship the breeze that flirts with their skin, who may worship the air that enlivens them, or knowledge that enlightenes them. Perhaps there are people who see this entire universe as the dance of life.
I don't think you have any right to condemn others views just because you don't see it like that
Last edited by a moderator:
ax0547
Sat Sri Akal
If you are asked a question you reply with an answer, not another question...
unless that question is rhetorical and part of answer
ax0547
Sat Sri Akal
Amrit Sanchaar (Sikh Baptism)
The advice that is given at the time of administering Baptism, considering that one can see that Khalsa is distinct from the Hindus and other religions.
i. Today you are born in the house of the Guru. Previous caste, Varna, religion, etc., all have been obliterated. Consider Guru Gobind Singh as your father, Mata Sahib Kaur as your mother, birth place Patna and you are resident of Anandpur.
ii. Early morning take bath and keep your body clean.
iii. Jap, Jaap, Swaiyas, Cahupai, Anand, Rahiras and Sohila should be recited daily, with love and adoration.
iv. Wear the five K's: Kachh, Kara, Kirpan, Kesh, and Kanga.
v. By virtue of being sons of the Guru you are all brothers. Therefore deal amongst yourselves as brothers.
vi. Consider the Ten Gurus as one light and accept Guru Granth, embodiment of the Bani of the Ten Gurus as the Guru. Accept the Khalsa as the form of the Guru. Serve sincerely and obey the Khalsa.
vii. Earn your livelihood with honest labor.
viii. Donate one tenth of your income for the Guru and put it for the progress and development of the Panth.
ix. Consider the task of the Panth as your own work and help it to accomplish with money and sincere labor.
x. To do good acts, consider that as sublime actions of man and worthy of Sikh religion.
xi. Study diligently, in particular Gurmukhi and religious books of the Khalsa and practice horse riding and use of weapons.
xii. Be humble and develop your intellect.
xiii. Consider Turban as insignia of the Qaum and protector of Keshas.
xiv. Associate with Gurmukhs (those conscious in Guru).
xv. On death and other occasions perform all rites according to Gurmat.
xvi. Make all efforts for the propagation of Gurmat.
xvii. At Gurpurbs perform Kirtan and exposition of Gurbani.
xviii. Be loyal to your master.
xix. According to the rules of the Khalsa Panth understand the advantages of the organization and remain united as if woven in a thread.
xx. Keep the daughter unvidh (no piercing of ears or nose). Treat them like sons and impart them education in secular and religious subjects.
xxi. If you happen to commit something against Dharma make amends for that in a congregation of the Khalsa.
xxii. Accept the One Almighty. Never worship any god, goddess, pir, prophet or avatar.
xxiii. Accept the Guru Granth Sahib and do not believe in any other religious books or scriptures.
xxiv. Do not believe in Omens, auspicious days, etc. These acts are done in duality.
xxv. Have (family) relations with Sikhs only.
xxvi. Do not have relations with Minas, Dhirmalias, smokers, those who practice infanticide and those who cut hair. In addition anyone who creates factions in the Panth and sets himself as Guru and goes against the counsel of the Guru never deal with him.
xxvii. Abandon forever theft, robbery, falsehood, injustice, back biting, betrayal of confidence, gambling and other demerits.
xxviii. Consider all intoxicants as destroyers of mind and body and hence abandon them.
xxix. Never call a Sikh by his half name.
xxx. Never go back on your promise.
xxxi. Do not wear the ornaments and colors worn by Chanchal (seductive) women.
xxxii. Tobacco (and other intoxicants) and the love of another's wife; these are destroyers of Dharma; abandon these.
xxxiii. Do not receive Prasad (offerings) made to any god, goddess or grave.
xxxiv. Do not commit yourself to any Sukhna (offerings for any favor).
xxxv. Never accept other's right, e.g., corruption money.
xxxvi. Except Gurdwaras do not accept any other place as your religious place.
xxxvii. Never have enmity with or envy of the loyal Sikhs of the Guru. Never think of doing harm to anyone.
xxxviii. Do not color your hair, and do not pick grey hair.
xxxix. Do not accept anything from your daughter.
xxxx. Never resort to begging.
The advice that is given at the time of administering Baptism, considering that one can see that Khalsa is distinct from the Hindus and other religions.
i. Today you are born in the house of the Guru. Previous caste, Varna, religion, etc., all have been obliterated. Consider Guru Gobind Singh as your father, Mata Sahib Kaur as your mother, birth place Patna and you are resident of Anandpur.
ii. Early morning take bath and keep your body clean.
iii. Jap, Jaap, Swaiyas, Cahupai, Anand, Rahiras and Sohila should be recited daily, with love and adoration.
iv. Wear the five K's: Kachh, Kara, Kirpan, Kesh, and Kanga.
v. By virtue of being sons of the Guru you are all brothers. Therefore deal amongst yourselves as brothers.
vi. Consider the Ten Gurus as one light and accept Guru Granth, embodiment of the Bani of the Ten Gurus as the Guru. Accept the Khalsa as the form of the Guru. Serve sincerely and obey the Khalsa.
vii. Earn your livelihood with honest labor.
viii. Donate one tenth of your income for the Guru and put it for the progress and development of the Panth.
ix. Consider the task of the Panth as your own work and help it to accomplish with money and sincere labor.
x. To do good acts, consider that as sublime actions of man and worthy of Sikh religion.
xi. Study diligently, in particular Gurmukhi and religious books of the Khalsa and practice horse riding and use of weapons.
xii. Be humble and develop your intellect.
xiii. Consider Turban as insignia of the Qaum and protector of Keshas.
xiv. Associate with Gurmukhs (those conscious in Guru).
xv. On death and other occasions perform all rites according to Gurmat.
xvi. Make all efforts for the propagation of Gurmat.
xvii. At Gurpurbs perform Kirtan and exposition of Gurbani.
xviii. Be loyal to your master.
xix. According to the rules of the Khalsa Panth understand the advantages of the organization and remain united as if woven in a thread.
xx. Keep the daughter unvidh (no piercing of ears or nose). Treat them like sons and impart them education in secular and religious subjects.
xxi. If you happen to commit something against Dharma make amends for that in a congregation of the Khalsa.
xxii. Accept the One Almighty. Never worship any god, goddess, pir, prophet or avatar.
xxiii. Accept the Guru Granth Sahib and do not believe in any other religious books or scriptures.
xxiv. Do not believe in Omens, auspicious days, etc. These acts are done in duality.
xxv. Have (family) relations with Sikhs only.
xxvi. Do not have relations with Minas, Dhirmalias, smokers, those who practice infanticide and those who cut hair. In addition anyone who creates factions in the Panth and sets himself as Guru and goes against the counsel of the Guru never deal with him.
xxvii. Abandon forever theft, robbery, falsehood, injustice, back biting, betrayal of confidence, gambling and other demerits.
xxviii. Consider all intoxicants as destroyers of mind and body and hence abandon them.
xxix. Never call a Sikh by his half name.
xxx. Never go back on your promise.
xxxi. Do not wear the ornaments and colors worn by Chanchal (seductive) women.
xxxii. Tobacco (and other intoxicants) and the love of another's wife; these are destroyers of Dharma; abandon these.
xxxiii. Do not receive Prasad (offerings) made to any god, goddess or grave.
xxxiv. Do not commit yourself to any Sukhna (offerings for any favor).
xxxv. Never accept other's right, e.g., corruption money.
xxxvi. Except Gurdwaras do not accept any other place as your religious place.
xxxvii. Never have enmity with or envy of the loyal Sikhs of the Guru. Never think of doing harm to anyone.
xxxviii. Do not color your hair, and do not pick grey hair.
xxxix. Do not accept anything from your daughter.
xxxx. Never resort to begging.