What Is Wrong With Those Leftists Who Support Islam?

[Shad]

The British came to the Middle East because the Muslim Ottoman Empire fell apart as a direct result of interfering in a war between European powers. If the victorious side in WW1 hadn't taken up governance of former Ottoman territories Muslims today would be complaining about how it's the West's fault they live in a bunch of ****ty failed states.

Compared to the great states they have now

 

[Shad]

No. They came because they needed oil. Their ships were running on coal.

Too bad the US and UK had switched to oil prior to WW1 and the Ottoman's involvement. Try again.

The UK got their oil without any invasion. Look up the Anglo-Persian Oil Company. Try again

 

[MD]

I'm sorry if you don't like her but she as a leader of UK is an image of your nation.

I think the same way, your leaders are the salafists of Saudi.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Compared to the great states they have now

A more than fair point - but at least they have something resembling states to be citizens of. Some Muslim countries like Pakistan have even kept the bits of 'evil colonialism' that they like and have expanded on them (blasphemy laws).

 

[sovietchild]

Salaam to you the authority that decides whose image is for whom.

Great, I'm glad you liked it - let's chat some times.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

When I say leftists I mean, SJW types and super far lefties socially.

Why support an ideology which is literally against everything you stand for and would execute you if it had its way?

Right?

What do you mean by "support"?

 

[MD]

A more than fair point - but at least they have something resembling states to be citizens of. Some Muslim countries like Pakistan have even kept the bits of 'evil colonialism' that they like and have expanded on them (blasphemy laws).

How are blasphemy laws related to British colonialism?

 

[Rival]

What do you mean by "support"?

Ally themselves with and suchlike. Like when those feminist marchers wore Islamic style headscarves,

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ally themselves with and suchlike.

I think that Muslims should have the same rights as anyone else, and that their rights should be protected. Does that constitute "support"?

Like when those feminist marchers wore Islamic style headscarves,

What do you think was the point of these exercises?

 

[Rival]

I think that Muslims should have the same rights as anyone else, and that their rights should be protected. Does that constitute "support"?

No, that counts as common sense.

What do you think was the point of these exercises?

I have no idea. Islam is the furthest thing from Feminism ever.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have no idea. Islam is the furthest thing from Feminism ever.

It's mostly about empathy: walking a mile in their shoes to get a sense of the discrimination they have to deal with.

 

[Rival]

It's mostly about empathy: walking a mile in their shoes to get a sense of the discrimination they have to deal with.

But what is that doing to actually help them?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But what is that doing to actually help them?

I'm sure we can debate just how effective it is, but I'd say it's meant to do a few things:

- it expresses support for the very feminist idea that women shouldn't be discriminated against for what they wear.
- it hopefully leads to a greater degree of empathy for Muslim women that can inform future action.
- it encourages interaction between Muslim and non-Muslim women, which helps to bring Muslim women into the feminist movement.
- it sends a message to the wider world that non-Muslim women will use their influence to defend the rights of Muslim women: "if you mess with the brown immigrant women, you'll feel the wrath of the white soccer moms with serious political power, so watch out and treat them right."

 

[Notanumber]

It's mostly about empathy: walking a mile in their shoes to get a sense of the discrimination they have to deal with.

Any discrimination they have to deal with is self-inflicted.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Any discrimination they have to deal with is self-inflicted.

People have said the same thing about women wearing miniskirts.

 

[Notanumber]

People have said the same thing about women wearing miniskirts.

Looking at women that wear miniskirts is one of my favourite pastimes.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I'm sure we can debate just how effective it is, but I'd say it's meant to do a few things:

- it expresses support for the very feminist idea that women shouldn't be discriminated against for what they wear.

What about the feminist idea that women shouldn't be made to take responsibility for mens' desires and actions? The sad fact is Muslim societies today justify legally or socially mandated veiling of women by objectifying women and telling them they incite lust in men if they dress certain ways. Veils are a device of patriarchal oppression, their justifications are body-shaming & ****-shaming. The fact that feminists seem willing to throw Muslim women who are pressured or forced to wear such clothing under the bus to protect the rights of Muslim women who have the luxury of being able to choose to veil is an example of modern feminism accentuating privilege.

- it hopefully leads to a greater degree of empathy for Muslim women that can inform future action.

But not the women who are forced or pressured to veil, sadly. Only the privileged Muslim women who have the luxury of making the free choice to veil.

- it encourages interaction between Muslim and non-Muslim women, which helps to bring Muslim women into the feminist movement.

Which doesn't mean much if the feminist movement doesn't do its part in dismantling Islamic patriarchy. Oppression of women doesn't become okay if they're non-white, after all. But to point this out sees people labelled as cultural imperialists.

- it sends a message to the wider world that non-Muslim women will use their influence to defend the rights of Muslim women

: "if you mess with the brown immigrant women, you'll feel the wrath of the white soccer moms with serious political power, so watch out and treat them right."

Unless you're being forced to veil yourself; then we won't do a thing because that would be 'Islamophobic'.

How are blasphemy laws related to British colonialism?

Blasphemy laws in the land of what is now Pakistan were established in 1860 when Britain still ruled India. Pakistan inherited these laws after Partition and is currently trying to expand the scope of their domain.

 

[leibowde84]

When I say leftists I mean, SJW types and super far lefties socially.

Why support an ideology which is literally against everything you stand for and would execute you if it had its way?

Right?

I think it is more the protection of Muslim's constitutional rights and protections. They have the right to practice their religion without being harassed. So, it's a civil rights issue, which has "lefties" all over it.

 

[Notanumber]

This survey was carried out in 2012. I wonder if attitudes have changed for the better or the worse since then.

Tale of 2 surveys: What U.S. Muslims believe

Blog: Sixty Percent of US Muslims Reject Freedom of Expression

 

[Stevicus]

Primarily that of the leader. Most people are too busy going to work, taking their children to school, cooking dinner etc. And also, there were many many people who tried very hard to block the Iraq War, for example, among the British people, but just didn't manage. I was taken along to marches against it by my mother as a young child, so I am told.

I'm not so sure it's that simple. Of course, it's easy to blame the leader or political party, but the people within a country also bear some collective responsibility for how their governments turn out. Especially in countries where leaders are chosen democratically.