You've never seen my husband drunk, then. He was as drunk as Lot and we managed to... Well, I think you can figure out from here.
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What is your belief about homosexuality?
- Thread starter Gnostic Seeker
- Start date
Nada
#
EXACTLY!! You hit the nail right on the head.Man is imperfect and God forgives.
They went to the convenient store for wine? Helloooo they were running away from a burning city and they carried enough wine to get Drunk on.
Fiction ALL the Way.
They probably made it themselves, or Lot did. We don't know how long Lot and his daughters were in that cave, it only takes several months to grow grapes. Besides, it only takes about a half a bottle of wine for a man to get drunk. Is carrying two or three bottles such a chore?
See? That does not prove it was fiction all the way, since we can come up some pretty interesting explanations.
Nada
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It mentions they were in Zoar afterwards and then left and settled in the mountains.They must have picked up some there.Or they could have picked some up along the way.
Genesis 19:30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave.31One day the older daughter said to the younger, “Our father is old, and there is no man around here to give us children—as is the custom all over the earth. 32Let’s get our father to drink wine and then sleep with him and preserve our family line through our father.”
Ps.It's convenience not convenient store.There were none back then.
They probably made it themselves, or Lot did. We don't know how long Lot and his daughters were in that cave, it only takes several months to grow grapes. Besides, it only takes about a half a bottle of wine for a man to get drunk. Is carrying two or three bottles such a chore?
See? That does not prove it was fiction all the way, since we can come up some pretty interesting explanations.
YEPPER. Just make up anything to justify yer religious belief system...NO ACTUAL HISTORICAL FACTS NEEDED.
Actually, there are facts. I am sorry you can't see them. I was just using some "for instances". And the story is from The Torah: Genesis.
I should add to this. You had said that the fact they were able to get Lot drunk was proof that the story was total fiction. I was using those explanations of how it could possibly be explained. Those possibilities listed were to show that the daughters COULD HAVE gotten Lot drunk.
Lot and his two daughters left Zoar. Lot was afraid to stay in Zoar. Well might as well claim there were no Men in Zoar and Lot didn't want his girls to be taught by other women other then his dead wife. SOOOO, out of convenience and to shorten the story, the story teller has him move into a cave and has his daughters claim there weren't any men left on Earth SOOO we might as well get the old Man drunk and screw him?
YEPPER , PURE FICTION.
Nada
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You don't know what you are talking about.You are ignorant about the entire thing and you don't know how to spell convenience store.You are no threat at all.Especially biblically.Carry on son.As a matter of fact.I will put you on my ignore list too.Your mouth is filthy.Later son......
I hope you don't mind if we don't see it as fiction, as you do. What you said is not proof that the story is pure fiction by any stretch of the imagination, not the way I see it.
nazz
Doubting Thomas
One has to wonder who admitted the event happened?
I wouldn't know. It's a very strange story, to be sure. Even my bible study said "those children were born of incest". One of the children, Moab, became a country: Ruth, David's great-grandmother was from Moab. It's just one of those things I am glad I don't have to explain. I let the Bible scholars explain it.
It does prove one thing to me: The people in the Bible weren't all a bunch of saints.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I put other. It is good because a couple should not be defined whether or not they love each other in All aspects of the word based on their gender. So, genuine love between two adults is good.
Unnatural: In general, I would say its natural. Every living being has their own characteristics about them. If it makes them "out of the norm" that doesn't make them unnatural, just not the majority (like left and right-handedness.)
I do believe some things are unnatural for humans. I am a female and I am lesbian, but there are certain things I will not do because they arent natural. Regardless the orientation, some "specific" actions are not made for the human body to do. It isn't based on orientation just the way the human body, both male and female or made.
Any two people can form an intimate life long relationship, kiss, hug, do the chacha, whatever. I just feel there are some things that only opposite genders can do.
It doesn't make me or any other homosexual less homosexual. We express our love (not lust) in different ways than a straight person would physically.
So, Id pick other because I don't know how to say its not normal while saying it is at the same time. That, and because most people relate homosexuality to actions, anyone can do anything they want to behind clothes doors. Is it normal for "anyone" to do whatever they want to do? Religious view aside, as long as they don't hurt anyone and they do things that their body naturally allows them to do, it is normal.
Sorry, long response. That's my take.
Unnatural: In general, I would say its natural. Every living being has their own characteristics about them. If it makes them "out of the norm" that doesn't make them unnatural, just not the majority (like left and right-handedness.)
I do believe some things are unnatural for humans. I am a female and I am lesbian, but there are certain things I will not do because they arent natural. Regardless the orientation, some "specific" actions are not made for the human body to do. It isn't based on orientation just the way the human body, both male and female or made.
Any two people can form an intimate life long relationship, kiss, hug, do the chacha, whatever. I just feel there are some things that only opposite genders can do.
It doesn't make me or any other homosexual less homosexual. We express our love (not lust) in different ways than a straight person would physically.
So, Id pick other because I don't know how to say its not normal while saying it is at the same time. That, and because most people relate homosexuality to actions, anyone can do anything they want to behind clothes doors. Is it normal for "anyone" to do whatever they want to do? Religious view aside, as long as they don't hurt anyone and they do things that their body naturally allows them to do, it is normal.
Sorry, long response. That's my take.
Apparently getting drunk and having taboo sex with your children was a tradition going back to Noah.
Tom
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
You've never seen my husband drunk, then. He was as drunk as Lot and we managed to... Well, I think you can figure out from here.
Lots of drunk people have sex - but not people so intoxicated they cant recognize their own daughter.
At a certain point the blood can't be retained in the penis, causing erection problems.
When a man gets an erection, the penis fills with blood, then the vessels close, preventing backflow, so the penis can remain erect. Overconsumption of alcohol causes the blood vessels in the penis to expand, allowing more blood to flow, but the vessels can't close. As a result, the penis may become erect but can not remain so, as there is nothing to prevent backflow.
The more intoxicated, more problems, and no erection.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
They probably made it themselves, or Lot did. We don't know how long Lot and his daughters were in that cave, it only takes several months to grow grapes. Besides, it only takes about a half a bottle of wine for a man to get drunk. Is carrying two or three bottles such a chore?
See? That does not prove it was fiction all the way, since we can come up some pretty interesting explanations.
Except that it says they didn't want to leave their other children, but the angels forced them out - last minute. So no baggage.
It is also interesting that YHVH wouldn't save all of Lot's children - letting them die because of their stupid husbands!
Gen 19:16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
Supposedly YHVH also tells him Zoar is safe for him and won't be destroyed - but - he heads for a cave! What's up with that? He is supposed to be a believer!
It also says they had sex with him on separate nights, - he is intoxicated beyond recognizing his own daughters having sex with him - two nights in a row! Yeah sure!
Sounds like this man of God was a big alcoholic!
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