What is your belief in regards to God?

[jonathan180iq]

Call it what you want. It is the origin, the sourse, reality, yesterday, today, tomorrow, your dreams, your fears, your life and your death. There is nothing else. The thing you don't believe in is the only thing that truely exists

Here's the thing, I obviously believe in yesterday, today, tomorrow, my dreams, my fears, my life, and ultimately my death. But I don't have to call it anything other than that. I don't have to imbue those things with more weight. It's not necessary to call those things anything but "life" is it? When you assign more grandiose words to something, and then infuse it with anthropomorphic powers, you quickly shift from a conversation based in reality to one based in fantasy.

The Jedi believe that everything has a force; that all nature is connected through this force and that certain people can wield the force with their will. Is that really any more ridiculous than suggesting that there is a personal overseer to the Universe, disconnected from our daily reality, yet benevolent and loving and waiting for us after we die, so long as we do things a certain way before then? You'll immedaitely recognize one as pure fantasy but hold the other in high esteem.

Why?

You can't say that. That is false. If I meet someone and then they leave, are you telling me that that was not fact because no one else was there? I think you will find it was fact.

So Santa Claus does deliver presents to all the good boys and girls on Christmas Night?? Why does he give so much more to the rich children than he does to the poor children? Are we to assume that poor children are just a bunch of little ****s and that only the rich children are nice all year?

C'mon man...

But I have accepted them. I might not embrace them as they might not be the best understanding of the realm we live in, but all things that are 'now' have been and will be again. Nothing is new. Nothing is either right nor wrong in the bigger picture, only in the smaller is one right or wrong. That is the one we live in and answer for. But there is always two sides. The reason we see so many faiths and also atheism is becuase of the expression of the evolving consciousness that is all we see.
You expect to see things in a certain way that will never happen that way. You expect to see someone else agree and confirm it. Yet believers have billions of people who confirm it. How many do we need to make nonbelievers say that it is fact? Belief comes from God, not man. Belief comes to man from God.

Exactly! You prefer one over the others. You value one more than the others because of some shared personal, cultural, and social experiences - all the while hinting that they are all based on the same subjective truths as anything else.

In one sense he is manmade, because he comes from the same consciousness. We are him, he is us. One is higher, one is lower. Both form each. But we answer to him as we are the lower. Thus we have no one to complain to but ourselves. That is just, is it not?

So this shared consciousness now has gender? Isn't that a strictly animal thing?

There can only be one Souce, life origin, big bang, they both follow the same pattern, the original print within the consciousness.

Yet you imbue this source with magical interventionist powers and even give it a gender... where does all of that extra information come from?

I have no problems with other beliefs... they are all part of the same consciousness. It is varied, dynamic, sometimes different, sometimes similar.

Yet you certainly value the validity of some over others, right?

 

[Parsimony]

And that believe means you 'know'.

So if I believe that a coin flip will turn up heads, it certainly will? Wouldn't that also mean that atheists who believe that God isn't real also 'know' that He isn't real?

 

[leibowde84]

And they are right, he didn't. And yet there is the son. Now work that one out.

You are assuming your conclusion, which is circular reasoning.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I see what you are saying.
I understand it could lead some to do or say the wrong things. But nonbelievers can have strong beliefs which could make them do wrong things, which I'm sure you already kno

However, even though we shall not agree, and I can't fully explain it, I know God is a fact. Sorry. It is the world that cannot see it. It does not mean it is not fact just because others cannot understand. And that believe means you 'know'. It is a different reality I guess; something hard enough to speak of here, but uncalled for in the physical world.
Perhaps the definition of "fact" is the problem. Was gravity a fact even before we knew of the explanation of it? I would say it was.

I understand; and, thank you. I know I cant see a world without spirits just as you cant see a world without god. I always felt that one day we can "and" still hold on to our belief (or not let trying to see another person's reality disturb our own). I have a friend who doesnt want to try to see others reality (other peoples faith through their eyes.) Im sure it is possible since I believe belief is subjective no matter if I know spirits exist or not.

Its saying "God is a fact" and "I can see why it would not be a fact to you" and "I can also understand why" (and) I do not agree.

Its tricky. Basically, you are saying others are right (what they believe is true) without discrediting your own. It sounds contradictory, and we do it when we try to step in another person's shoes when we help them with things they struggle with.

Say, even though we havent experienced a lossed, we can step in their shoes to help a friend who did loose someone.

Why not religion?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Here's the thing, I obviously believe in yesterday, today, tomorrow, my dreams, my fears, my life, and ultimately my death. But I don't have to call it anything other than that. I don't have to imbue those things with more weight. It's not necessary to call those things anything but "life" is it? When you assign more grandiose words to something, and then infuse it with anthropomorphic powers, you quickly shift from a conversation based in reality to one based in fantasy.

No, you shift to one based in reality, a reality a few can't see. Many can.

The Jedi believe that everything has a force; that all nature is connected through this force and that certain people can wield the force with their will. Is that really any more ridiculous than suggesting that there is a personal overseer to the Universe, disconnected from our daily reality, yet benevolent and loving and waiting for us after we die, so long as we do things a certain way before then? You'll immedaitely recognize one as pure fantasy but hold the other in high esteem.

Why?

There is no comparison between the two. If you take theology down to that level you might as well do the same with everything, and then all arguments are stupid.

So Santa Claus does deliver presents to all the good boys and girls on Christmas Night?? Why does he give so much more to the rich children than he does to the poor children? Are we to assume that poor children are just a bunch of little ****s and that only the rich children are nice all year?

C'mon man...

I said:
"You can't say that. That is false. If I meet someone and then they leave, are you telling me that that was not fact because no one else was there? I think you will find it was fact."

What do your comments have to do with that.

Exactly! You prefer one over the others. You value one more than the others because of some shared personal, cultural, and social experiences - all the while hinting that they are all based on the same subjective truths as anything else.

There will obviously be the source of all knowledge and we can therefore say that that is the purest form of that knowledge. Are you saying I shouldn't believe in one over the other? Your argument seems stupid and desperate.

So this shared consciousness now has gender? Isn't that a strictly animal thing?

We replicate him in lower forms. What is below is above.

Yet you imbue this source with magical interventionist powers and even give it a gender... where does all of that extra information come from?

You know where it comes from, you just refuse to accept it.

Yet you certainly value the validity of some over others, right?

Already answered. The higher mind is like ours, it makes mistakes as it goes on. The further it gets from the light, the more mistakes are possible and are manifest. Thus all things will be incorrect form of a true reality. Water baptism and circumcision are two good examples/.

 

[Robert.Evans]

So if I believe that a coin flip will turn up heads, it certainly will? Wouldn't that also mean that atheists who believe that God isn't real also 'know' that He isn't real?

Belief in God is from God, that is why it is gnosis and why someone 'knows'. It is grace. It has little to do with other decisions unless you want to look at it deeper and say that all things are God anyway, which I assume you don't.

 

[Robert.Evans]

You are assuming your conclusion, which is circular reasoning.

I know my conclusion because the end is where the beginning is. Now, see, I have given you the answer.

 

[Parsimony]

Belief in God is from God, that is why it is gnosis and why someone 'knows'. It is grace. It has little to do with other decisions unless you want to look at it deeper and say that all things are God anyway, which I assume you don't.

So anyone who ever believed in God also knew that He existed? If that's the case, then why have some people who once believed in God stopped believing in Him? You can't simply decide to stop knowing something.

 

[Robert.Evans]

I understand; and, thank you. I know I cant see a world without spirits just as you cant see a world without god.

Yes, but I don't mean that because it is just my belief. It is not some personal thing with me that makes me say that. The grace of God enables one to believe. So therefore fact.

I always felt that one day we can "and" still hold on to our belief (or not let trying to see another person's reality disturb our own). I have a friend who doesnt want to try to see others reality (other peoples faith through their eyes.) Im sure it is possible since I believe belief is subjective no matter if I know spirits exist or not.

The matters of belief can be subjective but the grace that gives it is not. It is God given. We have nothing to do with it.

Its saying "God is a fact" and "I can see why it would not be a fact to you" and "I can also understand why" (and) I do not agree.

Its tricky. Basically, you are saying others are right (what they believe is true) without discrediting your own. It sounds contradictory, and we do it when we try to step in another person's shoes when we help them with things they struggle with.

I think they are another piece of the puzzle that makes up the consciousness of everything.

Say, even though we havent experienced a lossed, we can step in their shoes to help a friend who did loose someone.

Why not religion?

Why not.

 

[leibowde84]

I know my conclusion because the end is where the beginning is. Now, see, I have given you the answer.

You've admitted that you are using flawed, circular reasoning, yes. Thanks for finally doing that.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

If that's the case, then why have some people who once believed in God stopped believing in Him? You can't simply decide to stop knowing something.

Good question. It seems to confirm that "God" is a very subjective experience.

 

[Robert.Evans]

So anyone who ever believed in God also knew that He existed?

They would have to do or how could they believe in him? How can one believe in something they don't know?

If that's the case, then why have some people who once believed in God stopped believing in Him?

Because their heart is far from him, so they are allowed to drift away.

You can't simply decide to stop knowing something.

It is God given. The lord gives and the lord takes away.

 

[Robert.Evans]

You've admitted that you are using flawed, circular reasoning, yes. Thanks for finally doing that.

You don't understand. You reason with the mind of the world. Your circular reasoning says about you what? That you exist? And what is telling you that? Is it not your own mind? So then all things are circular. Now do you see?

 

[Parsimony]

They would have to do or how could they believe in him? How can one believe in something they don't know?

This was exactly the point I raised in my first comment. If you think that a person knows something simply by believing in it, then by your own reasoning an atheist knows that there is no God because they believe that He does not exist.

Because their heart is far from him, so they are allowed to drift away.

It is God given. The lord gives and the lord takes away.

So God erased their memory or what? I don't think I've ever heard anything about that.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Good question. It seems to confirm that "God" is a very subjective experience.

One could say that all things are subjective; but one could also say that all things are objective.
BTW, you edited

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Yes, but I don't mean that because it is just my belief. It is not some personal thing with me that makes me say that. The grace of God enables one to believe. So therefore fact.

Why not.

I havent met any religious person who can. According these two posts, it may be hard for you too.

I guess I put it this way.

I Know spirits exist. I know it and it is a fact. Is is not subjective.

Objectively (thinking of others not myself) this statement is not true. To others, this statement may be false.

Objectively, that means no matter how much I think its a fact, it is not. It is a belief that I consider a fact.

Likewise with your belief.

The grace of god is not objective. If it were, we would All believe this. We would All know god exists. A lot of us believe he does not. It is personal. It is not objective. It is not a fact.

I can see this. Why cant half the people who know god exists see their belief as personal and not objective?

What closes their eyes from seeing that reality does not revolve around their belief?

That puts me at a loss.

 

[leibowde84]

They would have to do or how could they believe in him? How can one believe in something they don't know?

Because their heart is far from him, so they are allowed to drift away.

It is God given. The lord gives and the lord takes away.

"Belief" is the acceptance of something as being the case without having the necessary verifiable evidence for knowledge. Belief in the existence of God is not the same as knowledge of the existence of God. One is based on trust, while the other is based on evidence.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

"Belief" is the acceptance of something as being the case without having the necessary verifiable evidence for knowledge. Belief in the existence of God is not the same as knowledge of the existence of God. One is based on trust, while the other is based on evidence.

True religion is actually a catch 22 word. As a christian, how can you see other beliefs as correct? If you do, how do you do so with ones contradicting that of Christ?

Id say there is one true religion through the eyes of each individual. However, for me to say that is denying that I see the one true religion since my reality is made up of that. How can I see otherwise? Kind of like claiming there are other realities outside your own? Is that true and if so, isnt that odd they contradict each other?

Observation.

 

[leibowde84]

True religion is actually a catch 22 word. As a christian, how can you see other beliefs as correct? If you do, how do you do so with ones contradicting that of Christ?

Id say there is one true religion through the eyes of each individual. However, for me to say that is denying that I see the one true religion since my reality is made up of that. How can I see otherwise? Kind of like claiming there are other realities outside your own? Is that true and if so, isnt that odd they contradict each other?

Observation.

I don't think of Christianity as a fact-checking faith. I have no interest in being factually accurate in regards to Christ and what/who Christ actually was. To me, the importance of my faith is the adherence to what I see as the spirit of Christ's teachings. Through my many years of studying the subject, I don't see the Gospels or the Bible, for that matter, as being infallible. There are obvious imperfect and sometimes false human additions. But, the spirit jumps off the page, imho.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't think of Christianity as a fact-checking faith. I have no interest in being factually accurate in regards to Christ and what/who Christ actually was. To me, the importance of my faith is the adherence to what I see as the spirit of Christ's teachings. Through my many years of studying the subject, I don't see the Gospels or the Bible, for that matter, as being infallible. There are obvious imperfect and sometimes false human additions. But, the spirit jumps off the page, imho.

Youre not an average chrischan