What is your belief in regards to God?

[Robert.Evans]

Understand. Say the blind man is the nonbeliever and you walked in, my saying no one is here wont change that fact.

On the flip side, the blind man is the believer ans the other is not. The one who walked in has a whole perspective of life and objective reality because he uses all of his senses.

The blind (say completely) person is limited in that extent. So, he cannot see outside his point of view.

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In my hope and view is that the blind person is not blind he just chooses to close his eyes. Im saying that he can open them to see reality as a whole not just through those four senses he had when his eyes were closed.

Most believers say they either dont want to open their eyes or a few say they cant.

Im saying, it wont hurt to do so. But Im having a hard time understanding why they cant.

Understand their eyes to what?

 

[leibowde84]

God supports it not me.

God supports the claim that God exists? You don't see the flawed reasoning inherent in this?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Thats a step away from our topic. That is your belief. Since the man walking the room sees what is really true or those ten people, how can I consider your statement a fact when I can see it with all five senses? Trying to see what you see as fact is like my trying to be blind and forgeting what I saw "outside the cave".

Its not wrong to be blind. I just feel one day that blind person may see even though he prefers to be blind; comfort zone

I'm not sure what your saying and Im not sure if you understand what I'm saying. I am saying that something can be fact whether anyone sees it or not. Do you agree?

 

[Robert.Evans]

God supports the claim that God exists? You don't see the flawed reasoning inherent in this?

You are using the reasoning of the world.

 

[Robert.Evans]

God supports the claim that God exists? You don't see the flawed reasoning inherent in this?

How on earth do you think you will support it? God is true man a liar.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm not sure what your saying and Im not sure if you understand what I'm saying. I am saying that something can be fact whether anyone sees it or not. Do you agree?

Yes. I just see that your belief in god is not a fact (objective like the guy walking in the room) but a belief (the perspective od the blind man; his reality). Although the blind man isnt dellusional, he is in the world just like the man who walked in.

Just objectively, its like the blind man describing the color of the apple. Doesnt mean his belief is discredited. Just, from the man who walked and can see, he can see that the blind man is wrong.

Sometimes I think many believers portray themselves as blind men saying they know the truth/fact. Until their belief is proven as universal knowledge, how can one make the observation of a blind person who interprets color an actual fact of what that objects color really is?

 

[outhouse]

God is true man a liar.

Only man wrote the books, yet you insult the only authors of perceived holy books

 

[leibowde84]

You are using the reasoning of the world.

So, logic, or "the reasoning of the world", is invalid in your opinion?

 

[outhouse]

So, logic, or "the reasoning of the world", is invalid in your opinion?

he has been refusing academia for a long time. No sure he has ever accepted it.

 

[leibowde84]

How on earth do you think you will support it? God is true man a liar.

Well, you haven't provided any verifiable evidence that God exists. You claim that it is obvious, but many things that seemed obvious in the past turned out to be false. And, you are utilizing circular logic to support your claim that God exists, but don't have a problem with that. So, forgive me if I see your argument as being invalid.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Only man wrote the books, yet you insult the only authors of perceived holy books

It is all a bit confusing.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Only man wrote the books, yet you insult the only authors of perceived holy books

Inspired by God. You insult the one that died for you.

 

[Robert.Evans]

he has been refusing academia for a long time. No sure he has ever accepted it.

I have no problem with historical research and opinion, so long as it is right. You make the mistake of thinking that this subject is like any other, and that those who are the learned ones will know the most, yet the very scriptures that you speak of, declare that that is false.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Well, you haven't provided any verifiable evidence that God exists. You claim that it is obvious, but many things that seemed obvious in the past turned out to be false. And, you are utilizing circular logic to support your claim that God exists, but don't have a problem with that. So, forgive me if I see your argument as being invalid.

God proves it not man. Is that statement difficult for you or something?

 

[Robert.Evans]

It is all a bit confusing.

Eat your icecream

 

[leibowde84]

God proves it not man. Is that statement difficult for you or something?

My problem with it is that it is a meaningless statement to say that "God has the burden to prove God's existence", and your support for this seems to merely be, "God's existence is obvious or self-apparent". Now, the latter, for whatever reason, cannot be true according to the meaning of the word "obvious". Usually people revert back to "God of the gaps" arguments (e.g., since we don't know how life comes from non-life, God must be the explanation), but you haven't even gotten that far.

You seem to be claiming:
1. Belief comes from grace. (can you support this without resorting to other claims in scripture?)
2. Grace comes from God. (can you support this without resorting to other claims in scripture?)
3. Therefore, belief in God would not exist unless God exists. (this is only true if your premise is assumed, and part of this would be assuming that God exists and is the source of Grace.)

Therefore, you haven't provided any reasoning that doesn't utilize logical fallacies. I would like to understand why you are so confident in your claim here, but circular logic and/or arguments from ignorance don't help with that.

 

[leibowde84]

God proves it not man. Is that statement difficult for you or something?

It is an unsubstantiated claim that you claim to "know" to be accurate. I understand that God "proved" it TO YOU. But, that doesn't do any good for anyone else, and this is a discussion/debate forum. It seems meaningless to make claims that you can't support in a discussion, but, instead, use the cop-out that we must be ignoring the proof.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Eat your icecream

I can eat it in a special way because of spiritual dairy discernment and saying grace. You will not see the Intrinsic Purity of Vanilla with your sceptical mind until you open your heart to the Tantric Triad of Neapolitan.....

 

[leibowde84]

I can eat it in a special way because of spiritual dairy discernment and saying grace. You will not see the Intrinsic Purity of Vanilla with your sceptical mind until you open your heart to the Tantric Triad of Neaplitan.....

Strawberry is the best.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Strawberry is the best.

Wise words. Clearly you have seen a different reality. You are one of the Frozen Chozen.