What is your opinion on the pope’s declaration on Islam?

[kai]

well your right about one thing---it was going well!

 

[Breathe]

sometimes people hear what they want to hear, and sometimes people have a vested interest in what they are telling you to hear.

True dat.
Many of them may have truly not known any different, but the media of nations should be put to blame, especially in the Muslim world, for not doing their research into it!

 

[kai]

True dat.
Many of them may have truly not known any different, but the media of nations should be put to blame, especially in the Muslim world, for not doing their research into it!

exactly!

 

[Breathe]

exactly!

Imagine how embarassing it must be to have those angry protesting Muslims on TV, when you're a liberal Muslim, and people at your work know you're Muslim - you know that they'll be expecting you to be there in the crowd, deep down.

 

[kai]

Imagine how embarassing it must be to have those angry protesting Muslims on TV, when you're a liberal Muslim, and people at your work know you're Muslim - you know that they'll be expecting you to be there in the crowd, deep down.

well the problem is most of those Muslims protesting probably never had a clue what the pope said or didnt say.

 

[Breathe]

well the problem is most of those Muslims protesting probably never had a clue what the pope said or didnt say.

I've thought that, too. Just what people claim he said.

Others, well, any excuse for a get together? Some may even bring sandwiches for a mid-protest snack.

 

[kai]

I've thought that, too. Just what people claim he said.

Others, well, any excuse for a get together? Some may even bring sandwiches for a mid-protest snack.

well you have to keep your strength up its a tiring business protesting, all the more tiring if you havnt got a clue what your protesting about, you dont get that second wind.

 

[Alla Prima]

You're missing the point -- which is, of course, that the Pope's behavior was offensive. So you should imagine not how you'd feel if our imaginary Muslim leader did something inoffensive, but how you'd feel if he did something offensive, something you considered deeply disrespectful toward both your faith and its members.

As far as I'm concerned until Islam respects other religious faiths, and non-religious positions, Muslim leaders and Islam itself will continue to deeply offend merely through their belief that all people are born Muslim/Islam.

 

[.lava]

Lombardi also said the pope didn’t take off his shoes before entering the mosque because his hosts had arranged strips of carpet to walk along.
“We were all ready to take off our shoes,” Lombardi said. “But the people who welcomed us didn’t ask us to do it … It would be absolutely wrong to make a problem out of it.”
Benedict XVI sets new papal record for mosque visits | National Catholic Reporter

so what is it the Mosque? or the floor? thats so holy you cant wear your shoes on it? or in it?

well, you do not respect either. probably because you do not get it and it is OK. i know people who enter their homes with shoes. and i don't get them. the point is mosques are house of God to us and if you must get in, you either get in like Pope or at worst as American troops did in Iraq or just for the sake of "peace" you show respect. you do not need to understand or get it to show respect.

i said it before. Pope is not an ordinary man. he represents much more than just a man. when he pays a visit to somewhere, there are always reporters, photographers and next day he is on the newspapers. if you enter mosque without caring for rules of any Muslim mosque in entire world, you would not be on the news. that is the point. so maybe someone who's in such important position like Pope must show respect knowingly, willingly IF he really wants peace.

.

 

[.lava]

This is going so well, well done everybody, to Lava I like to say that as far as I know the Pope purpose in this is a missionary purpose and that you may be right in thinking that he could have a conversion agenda, it is my believe that this is inevitable because he is God’s servant

do you have a proof for Pope being servant of God? i am not asking this question like some others do, i am not trying to leave you helpless or anything. i really like to know. did you ever ask your God for proof?

he must preach the word of God and those that hear the word will react to it in accordance to God’s will,

i think according to you we have nothing to do with God huh?

why are Muslim so afraid that their people hear the word?

who said i was afraid? for God's sake. once upon a time i was somewhere else in Europe and sharing a house with nearly 12 students. i was the only Muslim there. when missionaries came along, every single non-Muslim mock them, they openly laughed at them and i, just as a human being, was ashamed. i was the only person who treated them normal, friendly. i showed them respect, invited them inside, made them tea...etc. they came again. i spent hours with them. those students were from all over the Europe, all Christians. me, the only one who's not Christian was also the only one who show respect. seems like your very own people did not hear the "word" yet. at the end what i heard was simple; come join us, we get you visa, we provide you a place to stay, a job...yea i hear your word. my faith is not for sell. i do understand and relate with your devotion. i rather hear your "word", i rather you visit our home land and i rather make peace with you. i am ready and here. if you or any other Christian willing to teach me something, be my guest and try to see what i do not know first. cos if you ignore things that i know you'd never know what you could teach me; so you come and apply Muslims did not hear the word.

As for peace Christianity does not pose itself as a peaceful religion.

Mat 10:34
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. ​

When God call us to the Savior our soul looses it peace, the word of God is like a sword.

Eph 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
Hbr 4:12​

For the word of God [is] living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. ​

i do not take sword literally. you can make my heart bleed with your words, because word is the sword. you can imprison me with your silence because silence is the sword. you can defeat me with your love, because love is the sword.

so tell me, the man who heard the word, can you defeat me?


.

 

[Breathe]

know people who enter their homes with shoes. and i don't get them.

Me either. The wife does that. I always take my shoes off.

so maybe someone who's in such important position like Pope must show respect knowingly, willingly IF he really wants peace.

Ah, but it's made clear he was made more than willing to take his shoes off, but they didn't say anything and so he didn't want to say "Want me to take my shoes off?" or anything like that.

Pretty much, Muslims are making it impossible for him. If he did ask, he'd've been stupid for asking, if he didn't ask and took them off and they said "you didn't have to", people would have critisized him for being "too ready to bow down to Islam" by non-Muslim "conservatives", and by Muslims for "not performing wudhu" or "taking his shoes off wrong", or something like that.

After all, lava, he is still a man - he still makes mistakes. His intention was that he was willing to take his shoes off, but they didn't say anything so he didn't want to cause a scene. And God judges us by our intentions, correct?

 

[YmirGF]

After all, lava, he is still a man - he still makes mistakes. His intention was that he was willing to take his shoes off, but they didn't say anything so he didn't want to cause a scene. And God judges us by our intentions, correct?

Does anyone see the irony of chatting about someone taking off their shoes or not as being cause for offense?

 

[Breathe]

Does anyone see the irony of chatting about someone taking off their shoes or not as being cause for offense?

I do!

It's petty, really.

 

[YmirGF]

I do!

It's pretty, really.

Well, his shoes are pretty, but it is also pretty petty to snivel about it, imo.

 

[Breathe]

Well, his shoes are pretty, but it is also pretty petty to snivel about it, imo.

HAha, yeah they are pretty.
But I meant petty!

It's not my fault I have big fat stubby sausage fingers!

 

[kai]

well, you do not respect either. probably because you do not get it and it is OK. i know people who enter their homes with shoes. and i don't get them. the point is mosques are house of God to us and if you must get in, you either get in like Pope or at worst as American troops did in Iraq or just for the sake of "peace" you show respect. you do not need to understand or get it to show respect.

i said it before. Pope is not an ordinary man. he represents much more than just a man. when he pays a visit to somewhere, there are always reporters, photographers and next day he is on the newspapers. if you enter mosque without caring for rules of any Muslim mosque in entire world, you would not be on the news. that is the point. so maybe someone who's in such important position like Pope must show respect knowingly, willingly IF he really wants peace.

.

ok then why did the Jordanians put down certain carpets for them to walk on which somehow negates the need to take off shoes Pope or no Popoe.


and Lava i understand very well its respect to take off your shoes, i have been in Mosques so i know the score. I have had the honour of going in the Dome of the Rock Mosque and Al Aqsa. and i took my shoes off ,thank you very much

 

[.lava]

OK i am not going to quote you all but this one goes for petty, pretty and Kai.

are you going to say Muslims are offended and it is their fault? and this is sooooo not about shoes, you know. once i entered the wrong area in a mosque to perform salaat, i mean in the middle of the salaat i realized i was in the area where opposite gender was supposed to be. i did nothing and completed my salaat. everyone makes mistakes. but certain people, people who manipulate masses, people who represent millions, people who has focus of public...etc they must be careful. this is what i am saying. so Pope made that speech and he quoted some thing else from someone. but why? why in this time of this world where anger against Muslims was rising why not quote another thing? there are thousands of things could be said. among dozens that is what he chosed. is he silly? i think not. i do not think he is naive either. if he is really man of God who works for peace sincerely then he should have showed respect in mosque. he should not have cared for anything (not the carpet, not the men around him...etc) but millions of Muslims out there who's going to watch him. how could he work for peace if he is not able to think for others?

.

 

[kai]

OK i am not going to quote you all but this one goes for petty, pretty and Kai.

are you going to say Muslims are offended and it is their fault? and this is sooooo not about shoes, you know. once i entered the wrong area in a mosque to perform salaat, i mean in the middle of the salaat i realized i was in the area where opposite gender was supposed to be. i did nothing and completed my salaat. everyone makes mistakes. but certain people, people who manipulate masses, people who represent millions, people who has focus of public...etc they must be careful. this is what i am saying. so Pope made that speech and he quoted some thing else from someone. but why? why in this time of this world where anger against Muslims was rising why not quote another thing? there are thousands of things could be said. among dozens that is what he chosed. is he silly? i think not. i do not think he is naive either. if he is really man of God who works for peace sincerely then he should have showed respect in mosque. he should not have cared for anything (not the carpet, not the men around him...etc) but millions of Muslims out there who's going to watch him. how could he work for peace if he is not able to think for others?

.

Lava i dont think you know what the popes speech was about , secondly the Pope was a guest of the Jordanians all protocol would be up to them ,they provided the carpets and didnt take their own shoes off.

It was not a mistake it was planned and He submitted to the instructions of the Jordanians when he visited the mosque as a guest.

 

[.lava]

Lava i dont think you know what the popes speech was about , secondly the Pope was a guest of the Jordanians all protocol would be up to them ,they provided the carpets and didnt take their own shoes off.

It was not a mistake it was planned and He submitted to the instructions of the Jordanians when he visited the mosque as a guest.

i did not know that. if Muslims did not take off their shoes then why should Pope. so i agree it was not Pope's fault. there must be something wrong with protocol over there.

thanks Kai.

.

 

[YmirGF]

i did not know that. if Muslims did not take off their shoes then why should Pope. so i agree it was not Pope's fault. there must be something wrong with protocol over there.

thanks Kai.

.

Well, it was mentioned by myself and Jay prior to Kai telling you that the Muslim HOSTS did not take off their shoes.... so..... it does make all of this pretty darn silly. A question for you to ponder. Why are Muslims, yourself included, so eager to take offense any chance they get?