What is your stance on free will?

[columbus]

I only skimmed throught this thread, so maybe I'm repeating somebody.

But humans are only free to choose whatever they think is in their best interests at the time of choosing. It is often profoundly ignorant or delusional, but it is never free.

To have absolute free will we would have to be godlike, all powerful and omniscient. Otherwise we are only free to choose between the choices we percieve without knowing what the outcome will really be.

Free will is a powerful illusion. And humans must be held culpable when their choices cause harm to others. But we do not possess true free will and we cannot ever due to our limitations.
Tom

 

[sinzzer]

How would you define freewill? Is free will a reality or an illusion of false power fostered by an awareness of self and the choices we think we make consciously? I'm in the con freewill camp. What about you and why do you believe as you do?

I see it like, free will is wrong interpretated.
Thats why the opinions are devided about it .

You need to free your own will ,before you can have a free will.
I doubt that science or non-or-believers walked the path to unlightment and after that discuss about the free will.
You cant asnwers in books, the answer must be found in life.

If i never saw or feel or know something, then how can i see, feel or know if it exsist?
I believe that science and many others use the wrong interpretation of the free will, its because they take it litarly.

The will cant never be a free will, when people never learnd to free their own will.
That is not something we get in schools.
Its a universel teaching what every religion/philosophy have, many just dont see it and focusing tomuch on other things.
The saying the truth will set you free means, walk the path of the truth and it will lead to a state of mind.
In this state of mind your will is free.
This is my opinion regard the free will.

 

[Willamena]

I only skimmed throught this thread, so maybe I'm repeating somebody.

But humans are only free to choose whatever they think is in their best interests at the time of choosing. It is often profoundly ignorant or delusional, but it is never free.

To have absolute free will we would have to be godlike, all powerful and omniscient. Otherwise we are only free to choose between the choices we percieve without knowing what the outcome will really be.

Free will is a powerful illusion. And humans must be held culpable when their choices cause harm to others. But we do not possess true free will and we cannot ever due to our limitations.
Tom

It's totally free. Comes with no real price tag whatsoever. It's not the power to do what you imagine, it's just the power to do. That's the powerful illusion.

 

[idav]

It's totally free. Comes with no real price tag whatsoever. It's not the power to do what you imagine, it's just the power to do. That's the powerful illusion.

You do say. You might not believe it but I saw you did something.

 

[Willamena]

You do say. You might not believe it but I saw you did something.

But I do believe it.

 

[idav]

But I do believe it.

Thats a strong illusion indeed.

 

[shawn001]

Problem is, I have yet to see a convincing argument for the existence of freewill, so your statement that "its the role the subconscious plays on freewill" is moot. I was hoping you had evidence that the subconscious might bring some life to the freewill issue. Alas . . . . . . . . you don't; and the subconscious remains unrelated to any argument for freewill.

"I have yet to see a convincing argument for the existence of freewill"

Either have I, and that is part of the point. This also has to do with how the brain physically works. The illusion of "freewill" and the role of the subconscious in that illusion.

"the subconscious remains unrelated to any argument for freewill."

Not to most neuroscientists.

 

[shawn001]

FREE WILL

"As noted frequently above, when it comes to the subconscious you have no control over how it operates. Therefore, with respect to the subconscious, you have no free will."

http://ezinearticles.com/?Never-Mind-Consciousness,-Mind-The-Subconscious&id=7540672

Does the unconscious make decisions?

 

[Willamena]

Thats a strong illusion indeed.

Not much use it's not useful.

 

[Skwim]

"the subconscious remains unrelated to any argument for freewill."

Not to most neuroscientists.

Really! So, just what is it that most neuroscientists have found that relates the subconscious to an argument for freewill?

 

[shawn001]

Really! So, just what is it that most neuroscientists have found that relates the subconscious to an argument for freewill?

Your not reading what I am writing. It doesn't argue for freewill it argue's against it.

Does the unconscious make decisions?

 

[Skwim]

Your not reading what I am writing. It doesn't argue for freewill it argue's against it.

Here's how it reads out. I wrote:

the subconscious remains unrelated to any argument for freewill.

You then quote the above.

the subconscious remains unrelated to any argument for freewill."

with the comment that this is not the case among most neuroscientists.

Not to most neuroscientists.

So, if it's the case that "subconscious remains unrelated to any argument for freewill'" is not the case among most neuroscientists, then I can only surmise that the case among neuroscientists is just the contrary, which would be that subconscious is, in fact, related to any argument for freewill.

Does the unconscious make decisions?

Not in the sense of freely choosing. Like the conscious, it does only what it's caused to do.

 

[Thief]

And the next response 'will' be posted by someone who couldn't help himself...
because someone of a greater will was twisting his arm...

 

[idav]

And the next response 'will' be posted by someone who couldn't help himself...
because someone of a greater will was twisting his arm...

Well then quit forcing people to respond, that seems rather uncouth.

 

[Thief]

But I can't help it!!!!!!!
hehehehehehehe!

 

[Yuusif12]

I believe God knows what everyone will do. And it was written down.
And it is made easier for everyone to do what they were created for.

 

[shawn001]

Here's how it reads out. I wrote:


You then quote the above.


with the comment that this is not the case among most neuroscientists.

So, if it's the case that "subconscious remains unrelated to any argument for freewill'" is not the case among most neuroscientists, then I can only surmise that the case among neuroscientists is just the contrary, which would be that subconscious is, in fact, related to any argument for freewill.


Not in the sense of freely choosing. Like the conscious, it does only what it's caused to do.

The subconscious is related to any argument for freewill by many neuroscientists. Because for one it is hardwired to the brain and makes decisions without us being consciously aware of the decisions.

Again what decisions does the subconscious make without you being consciously aware of making the decision?

 

[Willamena]

FREE WILL

"As noted frequently above, when it comes to the subconscious you have no control over how it operates. Therefore, with respect to the subconscious, you have no free will."

http://ezinearticles.com/?Never-Mind-Consciousness,-Mind-The-Subconscious&id=7540672

Does the unconscious make decisions?

The problem with this is the "the subconscious" is not "the unconscious," and both are misnomers. If you want to argue this against free will it fails because to give agency to "the subconscious" or "the unconscious" is no different than giving agency to the self.

 

[Thief]

I believe God knows what everyone will do. And it was written down.
And it is made easier for everyone to do what they were created for.

That we find our talents doesn't mean God is aware.

Likelihood would be.....we are free.
Knowing the future would be such a boring existence.

No fascination with the story of Man if you know how each character performs in advance.

 

[shawn001]

The problem with this is the "the subconscious" is not "the unconscious," and both are misnomers. If you want to argue this against free will it fails because to give agency to "the subconscious" or "the unconscious" is no different than giving agency to the self.

Willamena, I do understand the subconscious and unconscious terminology.

I will ask you the same questions though.

Does the unconscious make decisions?

What decisions does the unconscious make without you being consciously aware of making the decision?

I am talking about how brain activity works to make a "conscious" decision before it "knows consciously" it made one.


Published on May 18, 2013
Neuroscientist Moran Cerf explains how our conscious mind is an observer of what the subconscious has already decided.

[youtube]dsyS2OJaKq0[/youtube]
The Subconscious vs. the Conscious - YouTube