What kind of god would punish people simply for not believing?

[Father Heathen]

People complain that Christians, for example, try and force their believes onto others, yet no one says anything about those who criticise and insult God and His followers

There's a differences. Imposing ones religious beliefs upon others against their will is a violation of their rights and liberty, whereas an honest and objective analysis of something is completely fair. No one is forcing anything upon you. We're merely pointing out the flaws in certain claims (particularly irrational, unsubstantiated ones).

 

[Benoni]

It is with in us; not with out. Too many of God's people rely on someone elses revelation and have lost their first love which is Christ with in us.

Spiritual is hearing God not man; religious is hearing man.

So how do you know this "God of God's spiritual Word" is not like the "God of the literal Bible" in this respect?

 

[Nerthus]

There's a differences. Imposing ones religious beliefs upon others against their will is a violation of their rights and liberty, whereas an honest and objective analysis of something is completely fair. No one is forcing anything upon you. We're merely pointing out the flaws in certain claims (particularly irrational, unsubstantiated ones).

If I said all atheists are going to Hell, are you saying I couldn't be criticised for saying my personal beliefs will affect you and insulting you? I can say it happens.

Yet, you guys can sit there and call God evil and a psycho, regardless of how insulting that is. Because you are 'merely pointing out flaws'.

Interesting that.


Besides, there seem to be a lot more atheists here right now, so anything I say has a number of atheists jumping on what I say.

 

[Sunstone]

What kind of god would punish people for not believing?

That seems more like something a priest would cook up than any god worthy of worship.

 

[Father Heathen]

If I said all atheists are going to Hell, are you saying I couldn't be criticised for saying my personal beliefs will affect you and insulting you? I can say it happens.

Our objection isn't towards it being "insulting". Our objection is towards it being an irrational and unsubstantiated claim.

Yet, you guys can sit there and call God evil and a psycho, regardless of how insulting that is. Because you are 'merely pointing out flaws'.

If there really was a god, I'm sure he would find your religion's portrayal of him far more insulting than our scrutiny of said portrayal (you're religion doesn't have a monopoly on the concept of god, btw). Besides, you make god sound like an insecure, emotionally fragile child.

 

[Nerthus]

If there really was a god, I'm sure he would find your religion's portrayal of him far more insulting than our scrutiny of said portrayal (you're religion doesn't have a monopoly on the concept of god, btw). Besides, you make god sound like an insecure, emotionally fragile child.

So you are now telling me about a religion you don't believe in? You don't know what my beliefs are. I haven't actually stated anything other than to look to Jesus.

As I am sure you know, there are many different denominations in Christianity, so you can't even begin to say how I view God.

I am ending this, because once again it is pointless. This forum isn't what I thought it would be sadly. I am all for debate, but this isn't useful in any form.

 

[Father Heathen]

I'm just a big ol' meanie.

But seriously, you've defended the concept of hell. That's enough to draw assumptions from. And you've implied that god would be insulted, which makes a lot of assumptions about god's ego and emotions.

 

[Nerthus]

I'm just a big ol' meanie.

But seriously, you've defended the concept of hell. That's enough to draw assumptions from. And you've implied that god would be insulted, which makes a lot of assumptions about god's ego and emotions.

I have said that atheists do insult Christians. And, I didn't say that people go to Hell for not believing.

Anyway, I'm off. I have better things to do, than argue with someone who thinks they are better for not believing in a God and who spends his days trying to show Christians how they are wrong and he is right.

 

[Father Heathen]

I do?

 

[Benoni]

The sad part of this belief is with a little search of God's and allowing God's Spirit to open up scripture eternal punishment is a total lie.


Here some example why


First of all the wrath of God it the "wrath of the lamb" have you ever seen a lamb get mad?


The doctrine of eternal hell
Deny every attribute of God.
It make wisdom foolishness, turn eternal love into exasperated hate, make omnipotence helplessness, and make the justice of God the grossest injustice in the universe.

It is contrary to the nature of God.
It is contrary to the love of God.
It is contrary to the justice of God.
It is contrary to the power of God.
It is contrary to the Word of God and it puts God in the ridiculous position of being the almighty King of kings and Lord of lords yet having dominion a vast pocket of hate and resistance that even He cannot overcome.

Further than this it makes the mighty sacrifice of Christ that was made for all the world to be almost impotent in its power and scope.


I do not believe in (hades) hell. My answer is very definite on this point. I most certainly DO BELIEVE in hell (Hades, Sheol, Gehenna), but the hell(Hades, Sheol, Gehenna) of the Bible and the hell of human tradition are not the same thing at all. The hell (Hades, Sheol, Gehenna) of tradition is hopeless and eternal, while the hell (Hades, Sheol, Gehenna) of the Scripture like every judgment of God is corrective, remedial, and restorative."

I have said that atheists do insult Christians. And, I didn't say that people go to Hell for not believing.

Anyway, I'm off. I have better things to do, than argue with someone who thinks they are better for not believing in a God and who spends his days trying to show Christians how they are wrong and he is right.

 

[WayFarer]

I would like to try my hand at this post.
Since the question was not "God of the Bible" or anything specific, I would like to go generic in my post as well.

Imagine, if you will, that God is the source of a bright light. Not so much like the sun with edges that can be so easily defined, but almost more like a bright light shining in your direction in an otherwise dark room. Now, without looking at the light itself, you can see the room. Other people, objects, your own hands, but you cannot see the source of the light itself, just the light emanating form a source. Without seeing the source of the light, you can see because of that source. How long has the light been on, how big is the light source, why is it on in the first place. All you know is that the light has a source. Anything explanation is an attempt to understand the source that you can't see. Of course you may simply accept that the source exists.
Now turn your back on that light and close your eyes. You can even put something you have found around you between yourself and the light. Now you see nothing. You are free to open your eyes again and look around. Or you can sit there in your self imposed darkness and hum, or rock back and forth or just enjoy the shade. Your choice. The light does not provide you the darkness, it is your choice to turn your back on the light. The light is still there. All you have to do is come out of the self imposed darkness and open your eyes.

It is my belief that God does not seek to punish us. We are allowed to punish ourselves. But God is infinitely patient and loving and will wait for us to find the error of our ways and return to the light.

 

[Dezzie]

Curious? What kind of reason is that?

I personally don't believe any God or creator would punish anybody for believing in something different or not believing at all. Look at all of the things that happened in History. The Spanish Conquistadors for example and how they destroyed Aztec civilizations. If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was over religion and the new addition, Christianity. Basically, what my point is is that so much proof was destroyed in our past because of other people who weren't thinking about the importance of knowledge. Maybe the Bible isn't the complete resource. Maybe there is more to History than what we think. I really don't think God is going to punish anyone for not believing. Our History is certainly there, without a doubt, but we never physically witnessed any encounters. We haven't been able to read original texts (I'm sorry but the the translations of the Bible are NOT original). Some of us won't be able to translate the original Book because we don't know the language. I think God would be understanding enough to the changes that were made in the past and still now in the future.

 

[Twig pentagram]

The people who complain that God is a psychopath and is evil, really have no grasp on the actual concept. Rather than finding out more, they hear one thing and jump on the bandwagon of criticising.

Why do you think that? I know alot about christianity and it's concepts, and I still think that something is wrong with a god who would send you to hell for not believing in it. Especially when no clear proof of it's existence have been shown.

 

[Benoni]

Problem with your thought is this is pretty much the idea how it works with Chriistianity; but carnal man cannot see God or preceive God or anything spiritual for he is dead in trustpasses and sin and is a slave to sin. It was God who caused man to fall; it it god who is responsible to turn on the light.

I would like to try my hand at this post.
Since the question was not "God of the Bible" or anything specific, I would like to go generic in my post as well.

Imagine, if you will, that God is the source of a bright light. Not so much like the sun with edges that can be so easily defined, but almost more like a bright light shining in your direction in an otherwise dark room. Now, without looking at the light itself, you can see the room. Other people, objects, your own hands, but you cannot see the source of the light itself, just the light emanating form a source. Without seeing the source of the light, you can see because of that source. How long has the light been on, how big is the light source, why is it on in the first place. All you know is that the light has a source. Anything explanation is an attempt to understand the source that you can't see. Of course you may simply accept that the source exists.
Now turn your back on that light and close your eyes. You can even put something you have found around you between yourself and the light. Now you see nothing. You are free to open your eyes again and look around. Or you can sit there in your self imposed darkness and hum, or rock back and forth or just enjoy the shade. Your choice. The light does not provide you the darkness, it is your choice to turn your back on the light. The light is still there. All you have to do is come out of the self imposed darkness and open your eyes.

It is my belief that God does not seek to punish us. We are allowed to punish ourselves. But God is infinitely patient and loving and will wait for us to find the error of our ways and return to the light.

 

[Nerthus]

Why do you think that? I know alot about christianity and it's concepts, and I still think that something is wrong with a god who would send you to hell for not believing in it. Especially when no clear proof of it's existence have been shown.

You have a choice whether or not to believe in Him.

 

[Benoni]

How could God punish the billion muslims living in Islam today, how can they believe in Jesus and the billions of lost souls in the past who never knew the name Jesus.

The word puish in the Bible is:


The Lord knows how to rescue/deliver the godly out of temptation and to reserve the unrighteous unto the day of judgement to be punished... -2 Peter 2:9-

Punishment=Kolasis: Correction, Punishment, Penalty.

Kolasis Rooted In Kolazo

Kolazo:

1. To lop or prune, as trees and wings.

2. To curb, check, restrain.

3. To chastise. To correct. Punishment .

4. To cause to be punished.

Correction=

Alteration that improves: An alteration that removes an error.

Punishment meant to improve: Punishment, especially meant to improve or reform the person punished.

Law treatment of offenders: The system of dealing with criminals by improvement, rehabilitation, parole, probation.

Treatment of a specific defect.

The act of offering an improvement to replace a mistake. Something substituted for an error.

A rebuke for making a mistake.

The act of punishing.

Removing of errors: The removing of errors from something or the indicating of errors in something.

The act or process of correcting.

Something that is substituted or proposed for what is wrong or inaccurate.

Rectification/ modification/ adjustment/ amending.

Amendation.

Rectification.

Rectification=

To set right. To correct.

To purify.

To correct by removing errors.

To adjust.

A quantity applied by way of correcting.

The act or process of correcting.

Something that is substituted or proposed for what is wrong or inaccurate.

Amendation.

To correct something or make something right.

The act of rectifying or the fact of being rectified.

To correct by calculation or adjustment.

To adjust.

To fix/ repair/ remedy/ amend/ correct/ redress/ put to right/ to straighten/ to reform/ to adjust something.

The act of amending, correcting or setting right that which is wrong or erroneous.

"Vessels of wrath fitted to destruction"

Fitted= Katartizo=

To mend what has been broken or rent.

To repair.

To complete/ put in order/ to arrange/ to adjust.

To make one what he aught to be.

I personally don't believe any God or creator would punish anybody for believing in something different or not believing at all. Look at all of the things that happened in History. The Spanish Conquistadors for example and how they destroyed Aztec civilizations. If I'm not mistaken, I believe it was over religion and the new addition, Christianity. Basically, what my point is is that so much proof was destroyed in our past because of other people who weren't thinking about the importance of knowledge. Maybe the Bible isn't the complete resource. Maybe there is more to History than what we think. I really don't think God is going to punish anyone for not believing. Our History is certainly there, without a doubt, but we never physically witnessed any encounters. We haven't been able to read original texts (I'm sorry but the the translations of the Bible are NOT original). Some of us won't be able to translate the original Book because we don't know the language. I think God would be understanding enough to the changes that were made in the past and still now in the future.

 

[Benoni]

NO WAY.…


There is no life to choose spiritual things when you are dead in trespasses and sin; have you ever seen a dead man choose anything; he is dead and cannot hear, see, touch anything. This is so much more true when it comes to being spiritually dead. Notice what 1 Corinthians 2:14 tells us about the man with out the spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (New King James Version)

14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (New International)

14 The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14 (WE)

14The person who does not have the Spirit does not receive the blessings of the Spirit of God. He thinks they are foolish. He cannot understand them because only people who have the Spirit of God can test them.
1 Corinthians 2:14 (NIRV)

14 Some people don't have the Holy Spirit. They don't accept the things that come from the Spirit of God. Things like that are foolish to them. They can't understand them. In fact, such things can't be understood without the Spirit's help.

You have a choice whether or not to believe in Him.

 

[Nerthus]

NO WAY.…

I didn't mean it the way I think you have taken it.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Curious? What kind of reason is that?

The bigger question is do you consider annihilation punishment?

 

[Benoni]

Then what do you mean; this is a very serious issue that effects BILLION's of people God never called. if God does not call you; you have no freewill or choice to come.

Do you know anything about the priesthood of God in the ages to come?


The priesthood of scripture is something very foreign to many believers understanding; they are so caught up in their doctrines of damnations they do not see the glory. Take note in the word Zion/sion.

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion (the high places of Ruleship in the kingdom) to judge the mount of Esau (Flesh); and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.


Ex. 19:5-6: "And ye shall be unto Me A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS." The full text reads, "Now, therefore, if ye will obey My voice indeed, and keep My covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto Me above all people: for all the earth is Mine: and ye shall be unto Me A KINGDOM OF PRIESTS, and an holy nation."

We could not think of a disobedient people being for God - "a peculiar treasure, a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation." The apostle Peter speaks of the saints as "children of obedience"; they are begotten of that nature, and characterized by it. He speaks of "being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the living and abiding Word of God" (I Pet. 1:14, 23). Man after the flesh is born of corruptible seed, but there is another generation born of incorruptible seed, who desire earnestly the pure milk of the Word, and then the strong meat of the Word, and who grow up into the measure of the stature of the fullness of the Christ by it. They become "a chosen race, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a people for a purpose" (I Pet. 2:9). Just what the Lord proposed in Exodus chapter 19.

I didn't mean it the way I think you have taken it.