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What makes you think Islam is a false religion?

tariqkhwaja

Jihad Against Terrorism
Granted, it is a difficult concept to understand. How, exactly, did Kai's parents NOT create the baby Kai. I am all ears.
By create I assume the Muslims mean creating from scratch. No human on this world can create create or destroy mass and energy. One can only and only convert existing mass and energy into different forms (Electrical to Mechanical to Chemical Energy or Water to Hydrogen and Oxygen).

So with the above the conclusion is obvious. Your mother bore you but your parents certainly did not create you. They were a system that had an input, process and you were the output. To say there was no input but just output ... that would be creation.

Now if your definition for creation is something else then we are not on the same plane of discussion are we?
 

tariqkhwaja

Jihad Against Terrorism
Your religion was chosen for you by the culture and family you were born in. God did not tell you 'Be a Muslim!'.
It has been repeatedly stated that religion is a choice and NOT an inheritance. As an example the many people on these forums who changed their religion over time.
 

Caladan

Agnostic Pantheist
It has been repeatedly stated that religion is a choice and NOT an inheritance. As an example the many people on these forums who changed their religion over time

Most people have NOT chosen their religion, and Im talking about a very specific case here: about the person called Right_Path, which seems to be one of the billions of people who did NOT choose their religion, they were born into it, and they know nothing else. now if they know nothing else, and have not experienced anything else, how can they tell people that what they were born into is "IT"?
 

tariqkhwaja

Jihad Against Terrorism
Most people have NOT chosen their religion, and Im talking about a very specific case here: about the person called Right_Path, which seems to be one of the billions of people who did NOT choose their religion, they were born into it, and they know nothing else. now if they know nothing else, and have not experienced anything else, how can they tell people that what they were born into is "IT"?

Hmm ... hmm ... I can agree with that.

You can not judge on an individual level. It might seem like Right_Path falls in the category you described above but you can never be sure.
 

maro

muslimah
Oh how many verses of the Quran, how many hadith must I show you before you will agree that this is a label that mainstream Muslims have painted falsely on Islam?

Aren't you tired from your insults to the mainstream muslims ?...we are heretics..we belive in the virgins of the paradise..we hate the non muslims...LIES...FALSEHOOD...PROPAGANDA.....I guess the only real problem you find with the mainstream muslims is that they don't belive in your *Mirza* :areyoucra :areyoucra
 
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kai

ragamuffin
Aren't you tired from your insults to the mainstream muslims ?...we are heretics..we belive in the virgins of the paradise..we hate the non muslims...LIES...FALSEHOOD...PROPAGANDA.....I guess the only real problem you find with the mainstream muslims is that they don't belive in your *Mirza* :areyoucra :areyoucra


Hi Maro i see you have an insight into what it feels like to be a non believer then?

That feeling that you just dont beleive it!
 
Yes, but often that definitive objective is power itself. The idea being that with all the power, everything else (including great richness) becomes secondary.


History suggest that one who only seeks power, often turns to violence and tyranny, but that wasn't the case with Mohamed.

He just wanted to turn people into believers, for example: it makes no sense that a man spends most of the night praying and worshiping God, only to grant power over his people.

It flows perfectly, but I will make it even clearer still. (Read carefully, ok.)
You state that you would expect "god" to write another HOLY BOOK that refutes the Qur'an if in fact the Qur'an was the mere words of Muhammed. Your supposition is that "god" would never stay silent and let Muhammed get away with the whole thing. That is categorically false. There is absolutely no reason why "god" would have to refute Muhammed other than by your say so.


Wrong, if u believe in God, then u must believe God is fair, his fairness requires that he refutes false declarations in his name, so that people don't go astray...you will probably mention other religions and why God didn't react...i would say that Abrahamic religions provide adequate refutability against other religions.

Are you saying I do not trust Muhammed? Or God? Be very careful with your reply on this one, my young friend.

I have read two complete English translations of the Qur'an with the supporting commentaries. You have to understand one thing, I did not have the slightest problem understanding what I was reading. You are correct, as it was all too clear. The text of the Qur'an itself was enough to convince me that in no way could this possibly come from "god". Reading about the life of Muhammed further convinced me that he was in no way a genuine prophet of god regardless of what his followers seemed to think.

are you saying u trust Mohamed:areyoucra ...How do you trust Mohamed and don't believe in his message..plz enlighten me on that..and oh, remember i need to 'read carefully'

I didn't answer because it was an absurd question. Why dignify absurdity with a response? Just because you expect "god" to do it, doesn't mean that I am foolish enough to take the bait.

Still no answer:no:

It might come as a shock to you notso Right_Path, but I do believe in "god". The thing is, the god I know is absolutely nothing like how Allah is endlessly described.

Please tell us about the 'god u know'.

Quite personally and without malice, I consider Islam's vision of god to be quite primitive. It is about what I would expect from a group of people who existed 1400 years ago.

Do you judge people's perception to God according to the age they lived in?

And there are 1.8 billion who follow the trend of ''this group from 1400 years ago'', and yet live very happily.

O' make up your mind. First you are rattling on about eyes and since that wasn't terribly effective, you switch to the argument that ran out of gas long before I ever met you. Try harder.

I did not 'switch', i gave an example to make it easier for u to understand my viewpoint...it didnt work for u?...fine...it works for billions of people who believe in the creator.

You try harder, try to convince that God did not create your eyes...when something is subject to controversy, i would go for the one who claimed to be its creator, rather than your 'just worked' principle.

*Falls off chair - laughing*

You really don't have to do that my 'mature' friend
anyways i hope u r fine after falling off the chair!

finally, i want u to know i am not trying to beat u in order to prove myself right, i am only trying to convinve u with something..if you are not at all ready to listen...lets knock it off.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
False= Rejected...thats what i meant, every person is entitled to have a single religion.

IMO ''The one that makes the most sense to me'' is inappropriate...this one must be chosen for me(by God)..because the 'The one that makes the most sense to me'' could be the one that causes harm to others...there is evil...if everyone chose his religion according to his own craving, this would be unfair to good people.
We have a moral obligation to judge religions, for exactly the reasons you name. If Islam doesn't make sense to you, it's the wrong religion for you.

Your religion was chosen for you by the culture and family you were born in. God did not tell you 'Be a Muslim!'.
What he said.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
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History suggest that one who only seeks power, often turns to violence and tyranny, but that wasn't the case with Mohamed. He just wanted to turn people into believers, for example: it makes no sense that a man spends most of the night praying and worshiping God, only to grant power over his people.

Wrong, if u believe in God, then u must believe God is fair, his fairness requires that he refutes false declarations in his name, so that people don't go astray...you will probably mention other religions and why God didn't react...i would say that Abrahamic religions provide adequate refutability against other religions.


.

So the great Mohammed did not seek power? How do you know that? Are the endless quranic quotes you could post justifyable through any other source? All men are the same, power and influence is what we strive for. The great Sarecan leader Saladin was no different, im sure Mohammed had an aim back then, something other than turning people to Islam.
Where does it state anywhere that you have to believe God is fair? There is much contrary evidence, innocent people die because of criminals and idiots, if we are god's people that is a long way from "fair" dont you think? I think for theist's its more convenient for them to portray God as fair, since he would be a lesser being to be cruel.
 

TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So the great Mohammed did not seek power? How do you know that? Are the endless quranic quotes you could post justifyable through any other source? All men are the same, power and influence is what we strive for. The great Sarecan leader Saladin was no different, im sure Mohammed had an aim back then, something other than turning people to Islam.

Why you so sure about it? Just because you already made up your mind and you don't want to hear the truth?

Where does it state anywhere that you have to believe God is fair? There is much contrary evidence, innocent people die because of criminals and idiots, if we are god's people that is a long way from "fair" dont you think? I think for theist's its more convenient for them to portray God as fair, since he would be a lesser being to be cruel.

If we would live ONLY in this earthly life, i might agree with you, but we have the hereafter, where everybody would get his rights back if he didn't get in this life.

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

[1] When the Earth is shaken to its (utmost) convulsion,

[2] And the Earth throws up her burdens (from within),

[3] And man cries (distressed); 'What is the matter with it?'

[4] On that Day will it declare its tidings:

[5] For that thy Lord will have given her inspiration.

[6] On that Day will men proceed in companies sorted out, to be shown the Deeds that they (had done).

[7] Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!

[8] And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it.

(Quran 99:1-8)

Also read ...

[49] And the Book (of Deeds) will be placed (before you); and thou wilt see the sinful in great terror because of what is (recorded) therein; they will say, "Ah! woe to us! what a Book is this! it leaves out nothing small or great, but takes account thereof!" they will find all that they did, placed before them: and not one will thy Lord treat with injustice.

(Quran 18:49)
 
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darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
Why you so sure about it? Just because you already made up your mind and you don't want to hear the truth?



If we would live ONLY in this earthly life, i might agree with you, but we have the hereafter, where everybody would get his rights back if he didn't get in this life.

In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

[1] When the Earth is shaken to its (utmost) convulsion,

[2] And the Earth throws up her burdens (from within),

[3] And man cries (distressed); 'What is the matter with it?'

[4] On that Day will it declare its tidings:

[5] For that thy Lord will have given her inspiration.

[6] On that Day will men proceed in companies sorted out, to be shown the Deeds that they (had done).

[7] Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it!

[8] And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it.

(Quran 99:1-8)

Also read ...

[49] And the Book (of Deeds) will be placed (before you); and thou wilt see the sinful in great terror because of what is (recorded) therein; they will say, "Ah! woe to us! what a Book is this! it leaves out nothing small or great, but takes account thereof!" they will find all that they did, placed before them: and not one will thy Lord treat with injustice.

(Quran 18:49)

Truth, i'm sorry but you're a long way off convincing anyone of truth, you've just hardened yourself against any truth apart from what you see as the "truth." I dont blame you, stay true to what you believe in and don't let anyone tell you any different, just don't let the notion of truth cloud your judgement for we could all be wrong. One thing is for certain, we are not all right.

You see the problem is evidence from sources outside the Quran, a whole pile of quotes mean's nothing unless you convince yourself it means something. Firstly you have to believe that the word of Mohammed messenger of Allah is the word of Allah himself, otherwise this fairness you speak about is skeptical at best. Sure to you that mean's Allah is fair, but i'm sorry to say that i could interpret what you have presented very differently. All we have to judge God with is the books dedicated to him, bias included.
 
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TashaN

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Truth, i'm sorry but you're a long way off convincing anyone of truth, you've just hardened yourself against any truth apart from what you see as the "truth." I dont blame you, stay true to what you believe in and don't let anyone tell you any different, just don't let the notion of truth cloud your judgement for we could all be wrong. One thing is for certain, we are not all right.

You see the problem is evidence from sources outside the Quran, a whole pile of quotes mean's nothing unless you convince yourself it means something. Firstly you have to believe that the word of Mohammed messenger of Allah is the word of Allah himself, otherwise this fairness you speak about is skeptical at best. Sure to you that mean's Allah is fair, but i'm sorry to say that i could interpret what you have presented very differently. All we have to judge God with is the books dedicated to him, bias included.

I don't know how you view God, but i just mentioned to you what i believe God would do in judgement day. Yes, he is fair and whether you believe that or not, it's up to you.
 

darkendless

Guardian of Asgaard
I don't know how you view God, but i just mentioned to you what i believe God would do in judgement day. Yes, he is fair and whether you believe that or not, it's up to you.

Exactly, i view God much the same way you would view satan or evil beings. However, i find it admirable that you put so much faith in the Quran to lead you, conviction is underestimated even though i do not understand your's towards your God nor the motives you have for doing as such.
 

UnityNow101

Well-Known Member
Yes, he is fair and whether you believe that or not, it's up to you.

It doesn't make any difference whether he is to be seen as fair or not when we haven't even come to a collective conclusion as to what he is or is not as a whole. Your fair is not my fair and your truth is not my truth. We must begin the whole argument from the basis of "not knowing." I don't know what is true and what is not with regards to God and Islam. How could I? I have the Qu'ran, but who is to say that this book is correct? A man who died thousands of years ago? The Imams who have a vested interest in keeping this belief alive? It is the same with any religious book and belief. We cannot know whether or not it is true. For me, it is best that I leave all of the books alone and search out what is known to be truth right now. Not the shadow of some God-given revelation which I cannot confirm to be either true or false. But the truth of right now, as I am.
 

enton

Member
Well, the followers of Islam cannot accept that Mohammed is not a prophet of YHWH. Mohammed was just deceived by satan who appeared to him as an angel Gabriel. Why? There was a parallel event of this. Remember the Mormon Sect - the church of Jesus Christ of the latter-day saints? Their doctrine states that "Moroni now an angel appeared to Joseph Smith and gave him another testament of Christ..." and "it is okay to have many wives as long as they are virgins and do not belong to any man." In Islam, undeniably, a member can marry wives as long as one can support them. But in Christianity, one is forbidden to marry two or more.
 

UnityNow101

Well-Known Member
Well, the followers of Islam cannot accept that Mohammed is not a prophet of YHWH. Mohammed was just deceived by satan who appeared to him as an angel Gabriel.

Jesus could have been deceived by Satan as well, for all that I know. That is besides the point. There is no more evidence to support your claims for Jesus than for their claims of Muhammed's authenticity as a prophet of God...It is all "evidence" found within a book. Choose the one in which you believe, call it truth, and demonize the other side to cloak yourself in some form of self righteousness. I see all of that. Now, let's move beyond that and search for real answers. If you want to be told that you are right and that Jesus is the only way, that is fine. But the evidence is not any more there than it is here. Your evidence, the Bible, has blinded you from seeking out real answers. They have supposedly been given already.
 

kai

ragamuffin
Well, the followers of Islam cannot accept that Mohammed is not a prophet of YHWH. Mohammed was just deceived by satan who appeared to him as an angel Gabriel. Why? There was a parallel event of this. Remember the Mormon Sect - the church of Jesus Christ of the latter-day saints? Their doctrine states that "Moroni now an angel appeared to Joseph Smith and gave him another testament of Christ..." and "it is okay to have many wives as long as they are virgins and do not belong to any man." In Islam, undeniably, a member can marry wives as long as one can support them. But in Christianity, one is forbidden to marry two or more.


what! :confused:
 

enton

Member
Jesus could have been deceived by Satan as well, for all that I know. That is besides the point. There is no more evidence to support your claims for Jesus than for their claims of Muhammed's authenticity as a prophet of God...It is all "evidence" found within a book. Choose the one in which you believe, call it truth, and demonize the other side to cloak yourself in some form of self righteousness. I see all of that. Now, let's move beyond that and search for real answers. If you want to be told that you are right and that Jesus is the only way, that is fine. But the evidence is not any more there than it is here. Your evidence, the Bible, has blinded you from seeking out real answers. They have supposedly been given already.

It's a common notion to have a statement that goes like "Jesus is the only way...blah blah blah." As Oprah Winfrey once asked "What if you never heard of Jesus?" Very intelligent question from Oprah.
The Bible is an expression of the early history of God's children. It also contains prophecies as guide to His children. Now if you think I am deluded, FINE, no regrets. And to you who has not heard yet God's words from his preacher from the East, it's still okay.
 
Well, the followers of Islam cannot accept that Mohammed is not a prophet of YHWH. Mohammed was just deceived by satan who appeared to him as an angel Gabriel.

This is logically impossible, why? because if satan had that much control over Mohamed, then the latter would have turned into a human devil, which is untrue.

If satan had an influence on prophet Mohamed PBUH, then satan would have implemented his evil through Mohamed, and evil would have spread all over Arabia.

On the contrary, God sent Mohamed to turn a wretched community upside down, from people who used to burry females alive, enter vicious wars for the silliest of reasons, eat their gods...etc....into a very civilized community, filled with faith, love and peace.
 
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