What makes you think Islam is a false religion?

[tariqkhwaja]

But I have made that clear before too Suraj. Everyone knows it. It is nothing to hide. Love for All and Hatred for none. To respect difference in opinion is one thing. To respect the different opinions is completely another thing.

I have no respect for opinions that share partners with Allah or that don't believe in His Unity. And if I had a slight bit of respect for such opinions it would be hypocrisy on my part in relation to God. To say I am Muslim and not to hate such terrible opinions of my Creator is extremely extremely hypocritical of me.

To love all humans but to hate their beliefs (or part at least) is no sin. Suicide bombers (those nutcases) hate the humans and fail to understand the distinction between loving humans and hating their beliefs. You, Suraj, make the same mistake, unfortunately, albeit with different results.

 

[Surya Deva]

We are our beliefs. To say that you hate our beliefs is saying that you hate us. You cannot love someone and hate what they are at the same time. I am a Hindu, you hate Hinduism, therefore you hate me.

There is no love in your religion for non-Muslims from what I can see. To actually say you hate someone you don't know is very strong and I know of few religions that preach hate like that. The closest I can think of is Nazism and the KKK.

In my religion we have no hate for anybody. There is only forgiveness. I believe it is the same in Christianity as well, and in Buddhism, Sikhism. And you are saying we say 2+2 = 5?

Your religion is clearly false because it is full of hate.

 

[Darkness]

I have no respect for opinions that share partners with Allah or that don't believe in His Unity. And if I had a slight bit of respect for such opinions it would be hypocrisy on my part in relation to God. To say I am Muslim and not to hate such terrible opinions of my Creator is extremely extremely hypocritical of me.

I fail to see why misinformation about the creator's "body" would be something to hate. I am six feet tall but I would not hate if someone half-way around the world thought I was five foot, three. In fact, I would be pretty indifferent too it. This is the problem facing many of the worlds religions. The main focus should be on how well we treat our fellow man; the rest is only a minor detail.

 

[.lava]

We are our beliefs. To say that you hate our beliefs is saying that you hate us. You cannot love someone and hate what they are at the same time. I am a Hindu, you hate Hinduism, therefore you hate me.

There is no love in your religion for non-Muslims from what I can see. To actually say you hate someone you don't know is very strong and I know of few religions that preach hate like that. The closest I can think of is Nazism and the KKK.

In my religion we have no hate for anybody. There is only forgiveness. I believe it is the same in Christianity as well, and in Buddhism, Sikhism. And you are saying we say 2+2 = 5?

Your religion is clearly false because it is full of hate.

EVERYTHING YOU SAY ABOUT ISLAM IS FULL OF HATRED...every single comment you make, all the lies you say about Prophet IS FULL OF HATRED AND RAGE. as you did before, you, once more, accusing people for what YOU'RE ACTUALLY DOING.



.

 

[Surya Deva]

I fail to see why misinformation about the creator's "body" would be something to hate. I am six feet tall but I would not hate if someone half-way around the world thought I was five foot, three. In fact, I would be pretty indifferent too it. This is the problem facing many of the worlds religions. The main focus should be on how well we treat our fellow man; the rest is only a minor detail.

Hey Darkness I did not originally post that! :angel2:

 

[Surya Deva]

Lava, I believe you not responded to this yet:

Interpret this:



Here is the text of the message the Prophet Mohammad sent to the Julanda brothers through the intermediary of his Messengers, 'Amr bin al-'As al-Sahmi and Abu Zaid al-Ansari.

"Peace be upon the one who follows the right path! I call you to Islam. Accept my call, and you shall be unharmed. I am God's Messenger to mankind, and the word shall be carried out upon the miscreants. If, therefore, you recognize Islam, I shall bestow power upon you. But if you refuse to accept Islam, your power shall vanish, my horses shall camp on the expanse of your territory and my prophecy shall prevail in your kingdom."

Photograph of the Arabic original (sizes 27K or 772K) and the English text (31K) as it is on display at Sohar Fort, Sultanate of Oman.]

 

[.lava]

Lava, I believe you not responded to this yet:

Here is the text of the message the Prophet Mohammad sent to the Julanda brothers through the intermediary of his Messengers, 'Amr bin al-'As al-Sahmi and Abu Zaid al-Ansari.

i do not know if it is fake or not. only highest level saints could tell if it is really said by him. but i have no doubt there are no adds in Qur'an.


.

 

[Riverwolf]

Calm down, people!

.Lava, nothing you say will sway Suraj's feeling. His feelings are set, and it's his responsibility to cope with the disease of passionate hatred.

Suraj, you are right in that Muslims are getting it wrong if they are attacking other people unprovoked, like Bin Laden and his followers. They, regardless of their numbers (even if it was 99% of the entire Muslim population), are getting the Word all wrong.

Sure the New Testament may not have the same amount of verses containing violence, but a single verse can inspire the same hatred if misunderstood.
" But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev. 21:8)

 

[YmirGF]

i do not know if it is fake or not. only highest level saints could tell if it is really said by him. but i have no doubt there are no adds in Qur'an.

It would appear to be authentic assuming that the following is an actual government of Oman sponsored link
Omani World Heritage Site

See also
Omani World Heritage Home Page

The text given on the page states:

The letter reads as follows:
"In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. From Mohammed, the messenger of Allah, to Jaifar and Abd, sons of Al Julanda. Peace is upon him who follows the guidance. I am calling both of you, in the name of Islam. You will be safe if you submit to Islam.
I am the Messenger of Allah to all people warn all living that Islam will prevail. I hope you will accept Islam, but if you do not, then you will lose your country, and my horsemen will invade your territory and my prophecy will dominate your country".

 

[Surya Deva]

.Lava, nothing you say will sway Suraj's feeling. His feelings are set, and it's his responsibility to cope with the disease of passionate hatred.

You assume I hate Islam. I don't hate anything. Pointing out hatred is not the same as hatred. If I was saying that the Nazis preach hatred, would you say I myself am a Nazi hater?

The fact is Islam is a religion which is full of hatred and pointing that out is no crime. I am not the first and nor will I be the last to point to that. Did you miss the fact that a Muslim on this thread just came out and said he hates every other religion?

Sure the New Testament may not have the same amount of verses containing violence, but a single verse can inspire the same hatred if misunderstood.
" But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." (Rev. 21:8)

Is this the same as actually having 161 verses explicitly saying "kill the non believers, kill the pagans", "Kill those do not believe in Allah" No it isn't. Please don't misrepresent Christianity. That verse is from the book of revelations and is talking about what will happen at the end. It is not saying "Go forth and kill the non-believers" I know very well that Christianity was a peaceful religion in its earliest history and rather pacifist, "Turn the other cheek", "Love thy neighbours", "Pray for your enemies" there is none of this "Kill them, slay them, cut of their head"

 

[Surya Deva]

Thanks for that Ymirgf

So Lava. now that we know it is authentic, what do you have to say for it? Is my interpretation correct that this is an offensive threat to a non-Muslim kingdom, which Mohammed is telling that if it does not convert to Islam, he will destroy them?

 

[Right_Path]

Yes, I am aware of answering Christianity as well. Anyway there is no point trying to convince me, this is why I said it is my humble opinion. I have read enough now and engaged in enough debates with Muslims on this forum to know my opinion is right
I know of no other religion which is full of so much violence and nor do I know of a religion where its adherants actually justify indescrimate violence and terrorism.

As I said I cannot reconcile the idea of divinity with what I know about Islam. There are some people who call the Christian god a tyrant, but the Islamic god, I think a new word will need to be invented to describe it. 150 verses on killing non-believers, and a few more hundred on burning and torturing people in hell. He does soundn't like somebody I would ever like to meet in a whole eternity.

The main problem of people like you is that you grasp what you want from the Quran...you make your own interpretation, think you are smart and then decide, ''well..Islam is about violence.''

Claims of killing non-believers are really absurd, because in Muslim-Christian countries like Egypt, Turkey, Syria, Jordan...etc...Muslim scientists and Quran interpreters have never instigated killing non-Muslims...and I am a witness on that.

 

[Jon²]

Someone quoting odd bits from the Quran is irresponsible. If you go into ANY religious text actively looking for something to point out and bash as being evil, you can easily do it. I've studied Islam quite a bit, as part of my general interest in religion, and the argument of "Islam is about violence" just doesn't hold weight.

The world in general would be such a better place is only people would just do the due diligence on a subject themselves before forming an opinion.

 

[Right_Path]

Basically from all the above(includes the verses you posted, which you assume I have not read) Islam is this very tyrannical and oppressive religion which is extremely intolerant of other religions and ideologies, sanctions killing them with divine license and only grants mercy if the other religion is in subjection to it.

This is why I consider Islam a false religion. There is nothing more to say. I have good reason for my opinion.

Intolerant of other religions!

Quran 5-69
''Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who (1) believe in GOD and (2) believe in the Last Day, and (3) lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.''

3-199
''And there are, certainly, among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), those who believe in Allah and in that which has been revealed to you, and in that which has been revealed to them, humbling themselves before Allah. They do not sell the Verses of Allah for a little price, for them is a reward with their Lord. Surely, Allah is Swift in account. ''

 

[Surya Deva]

Someone quoting odd bits from the Quran is irresponsible. If you go into ANY religious text actively looking for something to point out and bash as being evil, you can easily do it.

Alright then do it and show us. Please look through the New Testimant and find me 161 verses on killing non believers. I know of no other religion which does, but go ahead and show us.

Intolerant of other religions!

It is well know that Islam is more favourable to the people of the book(Jews and Christians) but if and only if they accept Islam. If they don't they have to live in subjection to Islam.

The real unadulterated and fanatical hatred is reserved for the Pagans.

 

[Right_Path]

Thanks for that Ymirgf

So Lava. now that we know it is authentic, what do you have to say for it? Is my interpretation correct that this is an offensive threat to a non-Muslim kingdom, which Mohammed is telling that if it does not convert to Islam, he will destroy them?

This is very wrong...''There is no compulsion in religion''.

Islam forces no one to join the religion, didn't your 'education' teach you that prophet Mohamed PBUH lived with Jews and Christians in Medina?

Haven't you heard about what he did with pagans of Mecca, when he entered the village victorious in ''Fath Mecca''(Victory of Mecca)?...

when he had the upper hand he asked them: ''What do you think I am doing with you?.

Pagans said: ''A noble brother and the son of a noble brother."

He answered: ''Go, you are the forgiven".

You want an explanation for the message you think you have discovered to face Muslims with:

There was a message from God, this message had to delivered to people.
Mohamed PBUH asked the rulers of other countries to accept the message, if no then they are to allow him spread the message inside their respective countries.

If they rejected, he would send Muslims into those countries to inform people about Islam, if Muslims were denied by force to spread the message, after the first Muslim casualty, war would start.

About Jizya:

Jizya is a 0.1% amount of one's fortune!!

It was intented to serve as a tax for providing security to non-Muslims in a city overtaken by Muslims...is there a problem in that?

 

[Right_Path]

Faraz, find me another religion that says something like this:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

This is because you are ignorant to learn about what the people meant in the verse used to committ.

Also I can see you select the verses attributed to a certain time span involving war between Muslims and pagans in the Peninsula, then you apply it in general...Ignorance.

 

[Right_Path]

Exactly, there is no other religion either in the past or in modern times that is this intolerant and savage. This is why if there ever was a false religion, Islam is it. Islam has more in common with Nazism than it has with divinity.

A religion which is suppose to be divine would never have things like this. This is what my own religion says:

O citizens of the world!
Live in harmony and concord.
Be organized and cooperate
Speak with one voice
(Rig 10.191.2)

If something is divine it would not be telling you to go around on killing sprees and damning most of the worlds population.

Your religion is not divine in my opinion. It is the antithesis of it.

You know what...this proves it is all PERSONAL....your claims are based on nothing.

 

[Surya Deva]

This is very wrong...

''There is no compulsion in religion''.

Islam forces no one to join the religion...

"Peace be upon the one who follows the right path! I call you to Islam. Accept my call, and you shall be unharmed. I am God's Messenger to mankind, and the word shall be carried out upon the miscreants. If, therefore, you recognize Islam, I shall bestow power upon you. But if you refuse to accept Islam, your power shall vanish, my horses shall camp on the expanse of your territory and my prophecy shall prevail in your kingdom."


This has been proven to be an authentic letter by Mohammed. It is clearly showing that there was compulsion in religion. Explain it to us.

 

[Right_Path]

I will give you a scenorio. I am a 5 year old Arabic boy in Afghanistan and I pick up the Quran and read this:

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

I then then grow up and join an Islamic terrorist group fighting against the non-belivers. Is it because I misunderstand what I read or did exactly what I was told to do by Allah?

No genius, you would do ''exactly'' what you were told by those terrorists, who ''misunderstood'' the Quran...Allah is innocent from terrorism.

Then you answer this:

Why ''5-year-old Arabic boys'' in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt...etc... do not end up as the fancy Afghan boy you mentioned?

It is about terrorism, not about Islam...you have beaten your own point by mentioning Afghanistan.