What proof do you have of God?

[Thief]

substance is a FACT


spirit is a missperception of a minds conciousness by ancient primitive people that got dragged into this modern time and knew NOTHING of the natural world around them.

There are members here that would tell you, ALL things are an illusion.
I don't believe that either.

I make no mistake of substance compared to something alive.

I think it highly unreasonable that this complex learning experience ends in dust.

 

[Quintessence]

I think it highly unreasonable that this complex learning experience ends in dust.

Hah, I'm actually going to have to disagree with that. There is tremendous honor in returning to the Great Cycle. Sometimes it feels like people in my culture take this attitude because they are dismissive of the importance of the Cycle. That "dust" is mighty important. From it, comes the soil, the air, the trees, and other animals (including your children, should you have any). That's quite the honor, IMHO.

 

[waitasec]

That line highlighted shows why a discussion with you will fail.

Let's try a basic question....which came first?
Spirit or substance.

the brain.

 

[Thief]

Hah, I'm actually going to have to disagree with that. There is tremendous honor in returning to the Great Cycle. Sometimes it feels like people in my culture take this attitude because they are dismissive of the importance of the Cycle. That "dust" is mighty important. From it, comes the soil, the air, the trees, and other animals (including your children, should you have any). That's quite the honor, IMHO.

So you are not greater than your dust?

Any rock is your equal?

 

[Renji]

The problem is that when people ask for a proof, they usually refer to something that is tangible, concrete and so on. Something that is "physical". Problem is that God is a spirit. We cannot make "experiments" to prove that there is a God. To some, their "proof" is their "experience" of God/ gods.

 

[Quintessence]

So you are not greater than your dust?

Any rock is your equal?

I have a non-heirarchical worldview. Hierarchy is something humans impose on the universe based on their subjective valuation of various things. In the eyes of the universe, the field is level. All parts are necessary for the whole, as all parts are interconnected and interdependent. It would be improper to claim one is more important than any other. Humans like to put themselves on a pedestal. They forget to look down and examine what it is they're standing on, and consequently they also tend to forget they are dependent on it for their supposedly lofty position. Who is really superior then? The person on the pedestal or the pedestal which allows for that position to exist in the first place? My answer is neither. Superiority and inferiority become meaningless when you realize that kind of interdependency and relatedness.

That said, just because I have a non-heirarchical worldview doesn't mean I'm not as guilty as the next human of imposing subjective value judgements on things. We all do it; it's pretty inescapable. Especially when you live in a culture that does it all the time. The best I tend to manage in practice is turning the typical hierarchy upside down. I don't put humans on a pedestal. They're more like icing on a cake: unnecessary additions that add too many extra calories, but on the other hand are beautifully decorative and sweet. I like pretty and sweet things, but I rather wish there were not so many of us. It gives me a stomach ache.

 

[otokage007]

substance is a FACT


spirit is a missperception of a minds conciousness by ancient primitive people that got dragged into this modern time and knew NOTHING of the natural world around them.

^this

 

[wolfmother]

It is a feeling one gets a feeling of either feeling the presence _or not feeling it..

 

[Thief]

I have a non-heirarchical worldview. Hierarchy is something humans impose on the universe based on their subjective valuation of various things. In the eyes of the universe, the field is level. All parts are necessary for the whole, as all parts are interconnected and interdependent. It would be improper to claim one is more important than any other. Humans like to put themselves on a pedestal. They forget to look down and examine what it is they're standing on, and consequently they also tend to forget they are dependent on it for their supposedly lofty position. Who is really superior then? The person on the pedestal or the pedestal which allows for that position to exist in the first place? My answer is neither. Superiority and inferiority become meaningless when you realize that kind of interdependency and relatedness.

That said, just because I have a non-heirarchical worldview doesn't mean I'm not as guilty as the next human of imposing subjective value judgements on things. We all do it; it's pretty inescapable. Especially when you live in a culture that does it all the time. The best I tend to manage in practice is turning the typical hierarchy upside down. I don't put humans on a pedestal. They're more like icing on a cake: unnecessary additions that add too many extra calories, but on the other hand are beautifully decorative and sweet. I like pretty and sweet things, but I rather wish there were not so many of us. It gives me a stomach ache.

Hierarchy cannot be denied.....I see no means of doing so.
I am not top of the line life form.
I believe in an afterlife and greater things.

We have hierarchy in this world.
I strongly suspect an even greater scheme of things in the next.

 

[1robin]

This is a pretty far fetched-lie. At least if we are talking about a literal interpretation, and even if we are not then there is still a lot of issues and this still remains to be a decietful statement meant to confuse and mislead people.

What is it with you referring to everything you don't like as a lie? The bible if fact meets the standards of both law and history. The fact you don't recognize this even after I have provided quotes by the greatest experts in both fields is disturbing. For example the greatest expert on evidence in human history, and who literally wrote the book on evidence (Simon Greenleaf) has said the testimony contained in the Gospel accounts meet or exceed every requirement of modern law. Stop it with these unjustifiable and incorrect assertions of dishonesty or I will terminate our discussions.

There are plenty of historical events and evidence that contradicts the Christian Bible, and plenty of instances in Science that contradicts it as well.

And you proved that so well by not presenting a single one. I have invited anyone who makes these kind of bogus claims to provide examples and one of three things has happened every single time.

1. They refuse.
2. They provide them, and it is quickly shown they do not understand the bible.
3. I provide so much evidence they must soon abandon their position or their credability and they dissapear.

Which are you?

The thing that has boosted my faith more than any other is seeing how easily the bible renders all it's challengers fruitless.

 

[1robin]

Well, God doesn't exist. So I think I won anyway.

The mere assertion of something based on emotional bias does not actually make that claim true. I assume you understand this, YES or NO?

 

[otokage007]

The mere assertion of something based on emotional bias does not actually make that claim true. I assume you understand this, YES or NO?

I don't see the emotional bias here. So no, I don't understand!!

 

[waitasec]

The mere assertion of something based on emotional bias does not actually make that claim true. I assume you understand this, YES or NO?

the mere assertion of something based on emotional bias actually makes that claim true

you should understand this...yes or no?

 

[1robin]

I don't see the emotional bias here. So no, I don't understand!!

You can equivicate over the motivation if you want. The certain thing is that your claims were simply preference based and not in any way based in evidence.

 

[otokage007]

You can equivicate over the motivation if you want. The certain thing is that your claims were simply preference based and not in any way based in evidence.

If we were discussing based on evidence, why would you talk about ghosts? I mean, Gods?

 

[Lynix]

The word "god" is actually means an extra-terrestrial. A god isn't just a force or whatever. For sure it is an E.T real being. And know that There isn't only one god,there are many. Their have been a war in outer space between E.T's. This war actually is psychic not physical. Who have seen God in this world? NONE! But Satan appears to his followers as well as his demons too. Now who is the real true creator of humanity? The bible God who never have showed himself up to any of his follower or High Priest/Priestess? Or Satan who dictates "i'm ever present to help those who trusts in me and call upon me in time of need"???????

 

[1robin]

If we were discussing based on evidence, why would you talk about ghosts? I mean, Gods?

I didn't say we were and that had nothing to do with it. Claims of God doesn't exist are in fact un provable. There is less evidence that proves God does not exist than suggests he does. To claim you know God does not exist is a positive claim to knowledge and requires proof. Since you are intelligent enough to know this then you must have just made the comment for effect and never intended to prove what you know can't be proven. This is another symptom of the disease that your beliefs being based primarily on preference and not evidence or logic. When that happens facts are dismissed or distorted to fit the theory and not the other way around as they should be.

 

[1robin]

The word "god" is actually means an extra-terrestrial. A god isn't just a force or whatever. For sure it is an E.T real being. And know that There isn't only one god,there are many. Their have been a war in outer space between E.T's. This war actually is psychic not physical. Who have seen God in this world? NONE! But Satan appears to his followers as well as his demons too. Now who is the real true creator of humanity? The bible God who never have showed himself up to any of his follower or High Priest/Priestess? Or Satan who dictates "i'm ever present to help those who trusts in me and call upon me in time of need"???????

What? To which culture does God mean ET? God is not God's name you know. I hope?

 

[waitasec]

and to assume one knows gods name would be to assume one thinks highly of themselves

 

[otokage007]

There is less evidence that proves God does not exist than suggests he does. To claim you know God does not exist is a positive claim to knowledge and requires proof. Since you are intelligent enough to know this then you must have just made the comment for effect and never intended to prove what you know can't be proven. This is another symptom of the disease that your beliefs being based primarily on preference and not evidence or logic. When that happens facts are dismissed or distorted to fit the theory and not the other way around as they should be.