What proof do you have of God?

[AmbiguousGuy]

My education is in mathematics and Physics. I did take 3 literature classes but I hated them so bad I did not pay attention. I have never read Don Quixote. Is it worth the trouble? I normally never read fiction.

OK. So do you think that the nature of God can best be uncovered by an expert in language/literature/theology... or by an expert in math and physics?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

i can only say what God said about himself, we can only know him by his attributes, like All-powerful, all-hearing, all-knowing, all-merciful....

How do you know what God has said about Himself? Who told you what God has said?

Some lowly, fallible man told you, yes?

no, actually i dont even need quran nor bible to prove existence of God, i need only science, that is all

Nonsense. Nothing has a chance of being proven unless it can first be defined.

If "God" = "vague lovidoviness"... then how will you prove God using science?

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

In the scheme of superlatives....
bigger, faster, stronger, more intelligent, greatly experienced.

In the scheme of Creator....His will takes form.

Is that how you define 'potato'?

A 'potato' is 'tastier, starchier'?

That tells me what a potato is?

If you would like to define God in the same way as a dictionary might try to define God, I'll be glad to listen. But I'll have followup question to help refine your definition.

Once we've done that for awhile, maybe we can then investigate whether or not your God likely exists.

 

[waitasec]

i can only say what God said about himself

actually all you can do is say what others have said about god.
god can't speak for itself apparently, so others have to do the talking for it...even you.

 

[Ciko]

i can only say what God said about himself, we can only know him by his attributes, like All-powerful, all-hearing, all-knowing, all-merciful....

How do you know what God has said about Himself? Who told you what God has said?

Some lowly, fallible man told you, yes?

Nonsense. Nothing has a chance of being proven unless it can first be defined.

If "God" = "vague lovidoviness"... then how will you prove God using science?

How do you know what God has said about Himself? Who told you what God has said?

i know beacuse i have studied evidence for that

For us muslims quran is real word of God, not muhammed's words nor any other human, but only Gods words.

so what is evidence that quran is from God?

Evidence is scientific verses wich no human could know without mdoern technology in 6th century, and that quran is programmed mathematically so advanced that it is impossible construct such book even today with modern computers.

that is why Quran is from God, and that he said about himself.

Some lowly, fallible man told you, yes?

no

Nonsense. Nothing has a chance of being proven unless it can first be defined.

tell me somthing


when you find a lamp in desert, what can prove from that?

1 you can prove that there is creator of that lamp
2 you can prove that creator have knowledge about currents, voltage, resistance and other stuff
3. you can prove that creator possessed material for construction of lamp
4. that creator is smart and thinking.

you see, you can prove with lamp all of these stuff why cant we apply same definintion system on God.

 

[Ciko]

actually all you can do is say what others have said about god.
god can't speak for itself apparently, so others have to do the talking for it...even you.

no, we muslims have actually real words from God, in a book called Quran.

 

[I AM THAT I AM]

"No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right, yet a single experiment can prove me wrong." -ALBERT EINSTEIN

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

i know beacuse i have studied evidence for that.

OK. I know that God doesn't exist -- from studying the lack of evidence for God.

For us muslims quran is real word of God, not muhammed's words nor any other human, but only Gods words.

That's fine. Me, I don't believe in holy books. God has never spoken directly to humans, using human language. In my opinion, a true God would never do that.

so what is evidence that quran is from God? Evidence is scientific verses wich no human could know without mdoern technology in 6th century, and that quran is programmed mathematically so advanced that it is impossible construct such book even today with modern computers.

Yeah, Christians make the same claim about their Bible and Jews make the same claim about their Torah. I've even heard a Mormon make that claim about the Book of Mormon.

I think that if it were true, then all the world's scientists would agree about it.

when you find a lamp in desert, what can prove from that?

1 you can prove that there is creator of that lamp
2 you can prove that creator have knowledge about currents, voltage, resistance and other stuff
3. you can prove that creator possessed material for construction of lamp
4. that creator is smart and thinking.

you see, you can prove with lamp all of these stuff why cant we apply same definintion system on God.

Who is the 'God' you keep talking about? Can you define who or what God is? Are you claiming that God is the creator of the earth, for example?

Define God. You can just say, "God is the Being who is discussed in the Quran."

But I need some place to start.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

no, we muslims have actually real words from God, in a book called Quran.

Who told you that the Quran is the word of God?

The same people who told Christians that the Bible is the word of God.

Parents, culture.

In the case of many Muslims, even their school teachers told them.

 

[Ciko]

OK. I know that God doesn't exist -- from studying the lack of evidence for God.



That's fine. Me, I don't believe in holy books. God has never spoken directly to humans, using human language. In my opinion, a true God would never do that.



Yeah, Christians make the same claim about their Bible and Jews make the same claim about their Torah. I've even heard a Mormon make that claim about the Book of Mormon.

I think that if it were true, then all the world's scientists would agree about it.



Who is the 'God' you keep talking about? Can you define who or what God is? Are you claiming that God is the creator of the earth, for example?

Define God. You can just say, "God is the Being who is discussed in the Quran."

But I need some place to start.

OK. I know that God doesn't exist -- from studying the lack of evidence for God.

but i have evidence for his existence, even some scientists give evidence of existence of creator/God

look here
[youtube]l-cjbaXkbbU[/youtube]
Intelligent Design, evidence of God's creation in Sperm and Bacteria - YouTube

[youtube]dN5uo0TBd_Q[/youtube]
DNA as Evidence for Intelligent Design - YouTube

[youtube]ICJEf28VJuo[/youtube]
Scientists talk about God, Is there a God? Evidence from universe that God exists - YouTube

God has never spoken directly to humans, using human language. In my opinion, a true God would never do that.

maybe he would use gibberish so we all could understand him properlly?

come on man, you guess to much here, of course has God talked to prophets, not ordinary people, only his messengers, who delievered the message to people, to guide them to true path.

Yeah, Christians make the same claim about their Bible and Jews make the same claim about their Torah. I've even heard a Mormon make that claim about the Book of Mormon.

yes i know that , everyone like to praise his own horse, but in this situation, i know both bible, jewish and christian sripture , and also muslims holy scripture, i am in position to judge them all beacuse i have studied them all. that is why i am competent to say wich one is from God and wich one is wrong and can not be from God.

I think that if it were true, then all the world's scientists would agree about it.

come on man, scientists cant agree over some worldy stuff , how can they agree about something they dont see.

Who is the 'God' you keep talking about? Can you define who or what God is? Are you claiming that God is the creator of the earth, for example?
Define God. You can just say, "God is the Being who is discussed in the Quran."

But I need some place to start

God, creator of universe, the one who started big bang, and created us humans here on earth. God is unseen, for our eyes, beacuse he is beyong space and time, he was never born, and he will never die, he does not sleep, and he knows everything, and he hears everything, he causes living creature to die, and he gives life to creatures.

i have all evidence i need for existence of God, i dont even need quran nor bible to prove his existence, i need only science and that is it.

do you have more question bro?

 

[Ciko]

Who told you that the Quran is the word of God?

The same people who told Christians that the Bible is the word of God.

Parents, culture.

In the case of many Muslims, even their school teachers told them.

Who told you that the Quran is the word of God?

nobody, i studied it 18 years and i have seen enough evidence to believe that this book comes from God.

The same people who told Christians that the Bible is the word of God.

Parents, culture.

no, in my case, i teach my parents about relgion, my mother did not know about relgion,so i teach her about islam.

In the case of many Muslims, even their school teachers told them

i am in position, that i can teach my teacher about islam, beacuse i think i know more than him now.

 

[1robin]

OK. So do you think that the nature of God can best be uncovered by an expert in language/literature/theology... or by an expert in math and physics?

What does any of those have to do with you? Just kidding. Actually I honestly have not seen that you have been an expert in anything. I certainly do not claim to be one. I say those fields all have uniquie ways of evaluating God. However none are necessary and none are superior. There are Christians that are scientists, textual critics, philosophers, street sweepers, atheletes, and everything else.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

maybe he would use gibberish so we all could understand him properlly? come on man, you guess to much here, of course has God talked to prophets, not ordinary people, only his messengers, who delievered the message to people, to guide them to true path.

No, that has never happened and most probably never will happen. Those are men who wanted to control things around them, so they proclaimed themselves to be speaking for God. That's my opinion. Me, I have no need for another man to be in authority over my thought. I prefer to just hang out with God Himself.

Obviously a true God would never create chaos among humans by sending down a group of fixed 'holy words'. God knows that meaning does not and cannot reside in fixed words.

No, a true God would simply give his creatures the tools to search for him (human senses and intellect and reason).

yes i know that , everyone like to praise his own horse, but in this situation, i know both bible, jewish and christian sripture , and also muslims holy scripture, i am in position to judge them all beacuse i have studied them all.

Lots of people make the same claim.

that is why i am competent to say wich one is from God and wich one is wrong and can not be from God.

How many times have I heard that.

come on man, scientists cant agree over some worldy stuff , how can they agree about something they dont see.

Nonsense. Virtually every scientist agrees that humans were created by the evolutionary process.

But no majority of scientists believes there is a magical code in the Quran. Only Muslim scientists will believe that. Meanwhile, the Christian scientists will insist that the Bible contains the magic code.

God, creator of universe, the one who started big bang, and created us humans here on earth. God is unseen, for our eyes, beacuse he is beyong space and time, he was never born, and he will never die, he does not sleep, and he knows everything, and he hears everything, he causes living creature to die, and he gives life to creatures.

Thanks for offering a definition of God. I have to say that I have no belief in such a Creature. There is no Great Consciousness out there which created us. Not according to any evidence which I've seen.

i have all evidence i need for existence of God, i dont even need quran nor bible to prove his existence, i need only science and that is it.

OK. I'm happy for you. Each one of us sees the evidence as he sees it.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

What does any of those have to do with you? Just kidding. Actually I honestly have not seen that you have been an expert in anything.

Not to hurt your feelings, but if I were an expert in language, how would you know?

Really, I'm not trying to offend you. If there were a math genius here in this place, I'd never know it. He could write brilliant formulae all day, and I still couldn't distinguish him from a high school mathematician.

How would you know if I were a language genius? You don't seem to use it very well, although I do think I see a bit of improvement. You don't seem to understand its workings very well, judging from the way you toss word salads at me sometimes. You admit that you've read none of the great literary works.

So how would you know whether or not I'm a language expert?

Or an expert in rational thought, for that matter?

I certainly do not claim to be one. I say those fields all have uniquie ways of evaluating God. However none are necessary and none are superior. There are Christians that are scientists, textual critics, philosophers, street sweepers, atheletes, and everything else.

It is possible that a person with the IQ of a mule can more easily find God than can the most brilliant mind on the planet. It's also possible that a mathematician can find God better than I can (though I doubt he could then explain his God to non-mathematicians as well as I could do).

For myself, I search using observation, language, extreme rationality, humor... all pitched against other minds in written argumentation.

But that's just me and my God. I won't denigrate your God, but I will challenge Him if you crank up your prophet's bullhorn too loud.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

nobody, i studied it 18 years and i have seen enough evidence to believe that this book comes from God.

That's a little interesting. So your parents and culture are non-Muslim, but you converted to Islam after a thorough study of the Quran?

Did you also have to teach yourself Arabic, or did you read the Quran in another language?

Why did you decide to study the Quran in the first place?

 

[1robin]

Not to hurt your feelings, but if I were an expert in language, how would you know?

What? How would I know if I was a language expert? I do not get it. Regardless I am not one and have seen no evidence you are either so it is a moot point.

Really, I'm not trying to offend you. If there were a math genius here in this place, I'd never know it. He could write brilliant formulae all day, and I still couldn't distinguish him from a high school mathematician.

I am not offended if you know little about math.

How would you know if I were a language genius? You don't seem to use it very well, although I do think I see a bit of improvement. You don't seem to understand its workings very well, judging from the way you toss word salads at me sometimes. You admit that you've read none of the great literary works.

I asked you some simple questions that even I knew that are directly related to the field and you never answered a single one.

So how would you know whether or not I'm a language expert?

With no evidence for that fact. As well as the logic you have used it was a high probability guess.

Or an expert in rational thought, for that matter?

No this one deserves no reply. No offence but you know what I think.

It is possible that a person with the IQ of a mule can more easily find God than can the most brilliant mind on the planet. It's also possible that a mathematician can find God better than I can (though I doubt he could then explain his God to non-mathematicians as well as I could do).

Sure it is possible to find God if your stupid but not ignorant. Big difference. I think you have your last statement backwards.

For myself, I search using observation, language, extreme rationality, humor... all pitched against other minds in written argumentation.

You might want to give non contradiction and logic a try.

But that's just me and my God. I won't denigrate your God, but I will challenge Him if you crank up your prophet's bullhorn too loud.

Don't have a horn. But at least I have consistently claimed mine exists and cares enough to speak and even visit.

 

[AmbiguousGuy]

You might want to give non contradiction and logic a try.

Logic and non-contradiction bore me to tears -- in the same way as Picasso became bored with drawing stick figures and painting realism.

Pity me.

 

[Gui10]

Sure it is possible to find God if your stupid but not ignorant. Big difference. I think you have your last statement backwards.

Don't have a horn. But at least I have consistently claimed mine exists and cares enough to speak and even visit.

Stupid and ignorant are the same.

Speak and visit? I never heard him or have ever seen him. He is un-seable (according to religion). Unless you mean that you see him everywhere yea yea yea.

 

[Pozessed]

There is more proof of a creator then there is proof that there isn't. The science we have been studying has been leading us in the wrong direction.

Instead of trying to disprove creation, open your mind and you will find the answers for yourself.

 

[Gui10]

There is more proof of a creator then there is proof that there isn't. The science we have been studying has been leading us in the wrong direction.

Instead of trying to disprove creation, open your mind and you will find the answers for yourself.

There is no proof of a creator. And, AND, even if there IS a creator, it does not legitimize any religion!