What religion is scientifically proven?

[Green Gaia]

How about a religion that agrees with and reveres the study of science and sees no incompatibility between science and faith?

:chalice:

 

[idea]

Everything, scriptural or not, is up for debate. You can’t prove anything.
Anyways, there are spiritual things and there are natural things. You learn about natural things (things you can see, hear, touch, smell) with your natural senses. You learn about spiritual things through spiritual means.
Spiritual things by spiritual means, natural things by natural means.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

(New Testament | 1 Corinthians 2:10 - 14)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

dude if you don't want to be part of discussion than stop posting random stuff.. please..thanks :slap:

I suppose that's one way to sidestep my point.

Spelling things out more explicitly...

yes it can, there are hundreds of scientific facts in quran. oR KORAN. in ISLAM which are scientifically proven, for example the rotaion of the earth, the solar system, the birth, these facts were in quran abuot 1400 years ago. HOW do u explain it.
there is an example of it...


The Big Bang itself resulted from an extremely dense singularity. The creation of the universe is one of matter, space and time that are intimately linked together. Matter and space were joined as one and then were separated in the explosion. This is very accurately described in the Quran:
"Do not the unbelievers see that the skies (space) and the earth (matter) were joined together (as one unit of creation) and we ripped them apart?" The Quran, 21:30

Here is my explanation:

- "the skies" does not necessarily mean "space"
- "the Earth" does not necessarily mean "matter"
- the verse you cite doesn't describe the Big Bang at all, but part of an ancient (and factually incorrect) creation account.

Here's what's going on in "proofs" like these:

- if a passage seems to imply something that is now known to be factually incorrect, you consider it to be metaphor or poetry.
- if a passage can be shoehorned around some bit of modern scientific knowledge, you do so, whether or not the passage really has anything to do with it at all.
- IOW, you've set up a system where you count the "hits" and ignore the "misses", then consider as "hits" even the verses that need some very sketchy and specious interpretation to make them work the way you want.

I said my explanation was "wishful thinking and selective interpretation": I think that it's wishful thinking to assume that coincidental similarity between a verse and a modern scientific idea is intentional, and I think that it's selective interpretation to arbitrarily decide that passages about ripping the Earth and skies apart is literal (in a very funky way, mind you) while passages about the Sun coming to rest in a swamp, for example, are metaphorical.

The quran had stated at many points the future, for example when Mekkah was controled by pagans and quran stated in:

surah al fath. 27

Indeed Allah shall fulfil the true vision which He showed to His Messenger (Peace be upon him) [i.e. the Prophet (peace be upon him) saw a dream that he has entered Makkah along with his companions, having their (head) hair shaved and cut short] in very truth. Certainly, you shall enter Al-Masjid-al-Haram; if Allah wills, secure, (some) having your heads shaved, and (some) having your head hair cut short, having no fear. He knew what you knew not, and He granted besides that a near victory.

there has been many other occasions were the predictions of the GOD became exactly as they were stated in quran.

Besides the fact that the "prediction" is exceedingly vague, do you have any evidence that it was actually written before the events it describes?

 

[Caladan]

I find it a great insecurity in one's faith to need an attribute to it some scientific epiphany. Islam is a fascinating religion, its a shame many people don't let it stand for what it is without pseudo-science. its doing a bad job to present Islam to people who are not familiar with it.
Wouldnt it be nice, if people could simply present their faith, without having some uncontrolled urge to make others conform to its dogma? or to prove it is 'the absolute truth'?
come now, you must think more highly of other people than that. it seems like a shallow way of converting the ignorant masses, inappropriate to Religious EDUCATION forum.

 

[logician]

How about a religion that agrees with and reveres the study of science and sees no incompatibility between science and faith?

:chalice:

Which one is that?

 

[Wandered Off]

Deism, for one.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Which one is that?

Judging by the flaming chalice, I'm guessing Unitarian Universalism.

 

[Green Gaia]

Which one is that?

Yep, Penguin is right, Unitarian Universalism. I'm not one to proselytize and do not claim that UU has or knows all truths, nor do I think UU is for everyone, although we do welcome all. I simply wanted to point out that not every religion is in conflict with science.

 

[logician]

After reading about Deism and Unitarian Universalism, it seems a correct assumption that reason, not faith, is the basis of their religious truth.

 

[Green Gaia]

After reading about Deism and Unitarian Universalism, it seems a correct assumption that reason, not faith, is the basis of their religious truth.

Reason is extremely important to UUs, but faith is not left out. We just place our faith in something different than most other religions do.

BTW, deism is not a religion, per se, just as theism or atheism are not religions.

 

[Caladan]

GG,

How well does atheism fit with UU? is there a strong secular aspect to UU ready to accommodate atheists?

 

[logician]

I believe Thomas Jefferson was a deist, which is why he held Christianity in such disdain.

 

[Storm]

GG,

How well does atheism fit with UU? is there a strong secular aspect to UU ready to accommodate atheists?

It fits quite nicely, actually. There are quite a few atheists in my congregation.

 

[Storm]

To answer the OP, no religion is scientifically proven. For Islam to be, it would have to prove that there is a God, that God is further a deity, and that the Qur'an accurately represents Him. The fact that a few verses can be stretched to allude to current scientific knowledge doesn't cut it.

 

[Green Gaia]

GG,

How well does atheism fit with UU? is there a strong secular aspect to UU ready to accommodate atheists?

Absolutely. Many UUs are atheists or agnostic. I myself am agnostic.

 

[Caladan]

Yes, that is the general thing I get from reading about UU and talking to people who are members of a UU congregation. I'm wondering how does it work in practice, what is the strong aspect that atheists relate to and orbit around in UU?

 

[Green Gaia]

Yes, that is the general thing I get from reading about UU and talking to people who are members of a UU congregation. I'm wondering how does it work in practice, what is the strong aspect that atheists relate to and orbit around in UU?

Maybe you should ask our UU atheists in the UU forum.

 

[Storm]

Yes, that is the general thing I get from reading about UU and talking to people who are members of a UU congregation. I'm wondering how does it work in practice, what is the strong aspect that atheists relate to and orbit around in UU?

UU is a covenental faith, not doctrinal. So long as one agrees with the 7 Principles, which are strongly influenced by humanism, it's a good fit.

We're kinda hijacking the thread, though. Perhaps a new one is in order?

 

[Draka]

How about a religion that agrees with and reveres the study of science and sees no incompatibility between science and faith?

:chalice:

Which one is that?

Deism, for one.

Judging by the flaming chalice, I'm guessing Unitarian Universalism.

May I throw mine in as well. My religion has no qualms with science at all. There is no incompatibility whatsoever.

 

[Runewolf1973]

May I throw mine in as well. My religion has no qualms with science at all. There is no incompatibility whatsoever.

Neither do my beliefs. In fact the more science grows, the more it begins to realize the "animate" in all things. All is a form of energy and potential, what our ancestors considered "spirit" but it's all the same. It's all naturally existing energy. Perhaps animism was just how the ancients practiced their own form of universalism. I just prefer the "old ways".:tribal: