What religion is scientifically proven?

[why_islam]

What scientific proof exists that the Buraq, a winged horse with a woman's head carried Muhammad on the Miraj?

What makes it true, while Krishna lifting a hill and defeating evil kings is a myth?

BOth are myths...and for the sake of this arguement...i would believe both...now anything in Hindue's scripture say anything about the motion of the orbit...:no:

 

[ayani]

The one who doesn't want to get the right path..would say and keep arguing that..IF THE TRUE GOD wanted them to fallow... certain religion...he would automatically make them too...:sarcastic

one can argue with logic, but one can not argue against experience, especially the personal experience of God's grace and truth.

God did let me know what path He would like me to follow, and has been helping me, with His Holy Spirit, to go in this Way ever since. He is good, holy, gracious, and full of surprises.

He is more than a list of "asma al-husna", brother. He is the Almighty, wilful, glorious, and righteous Creator and Sustainer of our universe, the God of all men.

to know Him and walk with Him in Spirit and in truth is the greatest treasure one cn find. it is worth the entire world.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

BOth are myths...and for the sake of this arguement...i would believe both...now anything in Hindue's scripture say anything about the motion of the orbit...:no:

Does the Quran?

 

[Caladan]

BOth are myths...and for the sake of this arguement...i would believe both...now anything in Hindue's scripture say anything about the motion of the orbit...:no:

When I asked you previously:
"Speaking of myths.. how does The Night Journey and riding the Buraq fit into this? or archangel Gabriel talking to a human being, or the existence of a race of djinns?"

you answered:

As i explained earlier....God has limitless powers..He can do anything he desires.. I am amazed you know about this..These are all stated IN Quran and believed by every muslim... those were some of the things that GOD desired..and they happened...."

 

[Runewolf1973]

one can argue with logic, but one can not argue against experience, especially the personal experience of God's grace and truth.

God did let me know what path He would like me to follow, and has been helping me, with His Holy Spirit, to go in this Way ever since. He is good, holy, gracious, and full of surprises.

He is more than a list of "asma al-husna", brother. He is the Almighty, wilful, glorious, and righteous Creator and Sustainer of our universe, the God of all men.

to know Him and walk with Him in Spirit and in truth is the greatest treasure one cn find. it is worth the entire world.

That is good for you. However, your God is not the God of All men either. Some choose not to have any gods which is fine as well. Your God is your personal journey and your personal perception, not mine. We are all led down a different path.

 

[why_islam]

actually why_islam, the Quran states that there are certain "sins" Allah will not forgive.

Verily, Allah does not forgive the ascribing of divinity to aught beside Him, although He forgives any lesser sin unto whomever He wills: for those who ascribe divinity to aught beside Allah have indeed gone far astray. 4:48

Behold, as for those who come to believe, and then deny the truth, and again come to believe, and again deny the truth, and thereafter grow stubborn in their denial of the truth- Allah will not forgive them, nor will He guide them in any way. 4:137

whether you [Mohammad] pray [to Allah] that they be forgiven or not- if you were to pray seventy times that they be forgiven, Allah will not forgive them, seeing that they are bent on denying Allah and His Apostle. And Allah does not bestow His guidance upon such iniquitous folk. 9:80

in other words, Allah does not forgive apostates, those who deny the validity of Mohammad's prophethood, or those who ascribe divinity to anything besides Allah. forgiveness comes about when the person doing / believing such things "repents" and becomes a Muslim. should one die while denying Islam, worshipping things other than Allah, or as an apostate from Islam, it is uncertain whether Allah would spare them from hell.

also, it is interesting to compare 9:80 of the Quran to Jesus of Nazareth's words on forgiveness -

Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times. (Matthew 18:21-22)

i overheard a kind of alarming and troubling conversation between an Islamic teacher and a small child... the teacher was teaching the children about jannah (paradise) and jahannam (hell fire) and was reminding them that if they did not love Allah and practice Islam, they would go to jahannam, and reminded them that no one knows their fate after death. one small boy said cheerfully "i always go to jannah!" and his teacher gasped and asked "how do you know? how do you know you will not go to the fire?" the kid got very quiet and bowed his head.

it amazed me that after a lifetime of faithfully eating halal, doing salah, giving zakah, after going on hajj and doing his best to live a Muslim life, this kid still had to live in fear of, perhaps, not being good enough for his god to truly love and pardon him. it opened my eyes to the great chasm between the Muslim and the heart / will of Allah, and the great uncertainty regarding the Islamic afterlife.

All those parts from the quran..are Absolutely true...If i had said..that God will forgive every sin..than i m sorry i was wrong..THERE IS ONE SIN GOD WON"T FORGIVE...and that is for the people who dont believe in him...everything else he forgives...

and some parts are out of context... just so you know

 

[why_islam]

That is good for you. However, your God is not the God of All men either. Some choose not to have any gods which is fine as well. Your God is your personal journey, not mine. We are all led down a different path.

but the fact that even with so much proof and so much simplicty...people don't understand..

 

[why_islam]

When I asked you previously:
"Speaking of myths.. how does The Night Journey and riding the Buraq fit into this? or archangel Gabriel talking to a human being, or the existence of a race of djinns?"

you answered:

i know what i had said...and you had to say it again why...
did u find anything about orbits in Hindu scripture

 

[Runewolf1973]

but the fact that even with so much proof and so much simplicty...people don't understand..

Not every "branch" is meant to "see" in the same direction is it?

 

[why_islam]

Does the Quran?

and i don't know how many times to post this now

YouTube - Scientific Truths in The Qur'an: The Orbits

 

[ayani]

That is good for you. However, your God is not the God of All men either. Some choose not to have any gods which is fine as well. Your God is your personal journey and your personal perception, not mine. We are all led down a different path.

i would, to an extent, both agree and disagree.

we both agree that not all peoples worship / believe in the same gods. and i agree that not all people are on the same path, nor will all lives be directed in such a way as to go down a specific path.

what is central to my concern, however, is whether the Allah of the Quran is the same as the Abba whom Jesus spoke of, and to. it *is* significant, exactly because Mohammad claims to be a valid and worth-listening-to mssenger of the same God whom Jesus loved and served and called "Abba".

if Mohammad claimed only to be amessenger of Allah and in no way connected Allah to the Abrahamic tradition, that would be fine and not so much of an issue. but because Mohammad claims Allah as the same diety as the God described in the Bible, it is really worth examinging whether or not the two messages (of Jesus and Mohammad) talk about the same god, and what kind of message that god imparts to humanity through these respective men.

 

[Storm]

I'll say it again, why_islam, you haven't proven anything. In order to prove Islam correct, your first step is to prove that God exists in the first place. I won't hold my breath.

 

[Caladan]

Well, why_islam, you seem to be double talking, or maybe you are undecided?
either you think these are myths, or you think they are facts.
you have said all Muslims consider these true, (winged horse with a woman's head, djinns, etc.), if the Qur'an claims these myths to be true, it is obvious that the Qur'an (just as any other sacred text) has no purpose in transmitting scientific knowledge.
the days of mythology mixed with science are a thing of the past, and if a society is to advance into a progressive future at some point it will have to embrace many of its fantastic traditional beliefs as folklore.

 

[why_islam]

Not every "branch" is meant to "see" in the same direction is it?

NO ..but going in a different direction..is it supposed to produce different results than the other branches...I mean wouldn't different branches of apple tree be producing apples..:sarcastic

 

[why_islam]

Well, why_islam, you seem to be double talking, or maybe you are undecided?
either you think these are myths, or you think they are facts.
you have said all Muslims consider these true, (winged horse with a woman's head, djinns, etc.), if the Qur'an claims these myths to be true, it is obvious that the Qur'an (just as any other sacred text) has no purpose in transmitting scientific knowledge.
the days of mythology mixed with science are a thing of the past, and if a society is to advance into a progressive future at some point it will have to embrace many of its fantastic traditional beliefs as folklore.

as i said before sir... those myths and Majics in quran were to tell the leader of that tribe at to believe that Muhammed was the Prophet of God.. And quran is full of Science to prove that to people now..who don't believe in majic and myths...and you still couldn't find a single Scientific proof from any other religion that have myths and majic

 

[Runewolf1973]

NO ..but going in a different direction..is it supposed to produce different results than the other branches...I mean wouldn't different branches of apple tree be producing apples..:sarcastic

Exactly. So why try to convert an apple into becoming a different kind of apple? It is all the same thing, just perceived differently. If all apples grew on the same branch, it would probably break off.

 

[Runewolf1973]

Besides, is there something wrong with one part of a tree going to make apple sauce and another part of it going to make apple pie?

 

[why_islam]

btw, the ancient greeks and jews thought the earth orbits the sun centuries before such lore found its way into islam. Does that mean we should all sacrifice bulls to zeus?

proooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooof

 

[why_islam]

I'll say it again, why_islam, you haven't proven anything. In order to prove Islam correct, your first step is to prove that God exists in the first place. I won't hold my breath.

How was our universe created?

 

[Caladan]

This is going no where.