What scientific evidence do we have for the existence of human consciousness?

[Unification]

There will never be physical evidence. It's already self-evident. Consciousness doesn't need evidence. It is experience. The technicality is the separation.

Technicality of what words mean doesn't equate to experience.

The idea isn't to measure it with technicality, or precision, it is to experience and BE it. Everything that's observed is a product of consciousness.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

There will never be physical evidence. It's already self-evident. Consciousness doesn't need evidence. It is experience. The technicality is the separation.

Technicality of what words mean doesn't equate to experience.

Consciousness itself is rather self evident. Yes. But that doesn't equate to anything special about the universe nor does it claim that the whole universe is conscious. And sentience or cognition also doesn't follow beyond consciousness either. Yes we are conscious. There is no reason to think there is some grand universal consciousness to us beyond what we see.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

Quantum physics and anything does need an observer though for it to be anything. Using deductive logic, everything goes back to and derives from consciousness and is consciousness. It's inevitable.

So do you think the world disappears while you're asleep?

 

[godnotgod]

Consciousness itself is rather self evident. Yes. But that doesn't equate to anything special about the universe nor does it claim that the whole universe is conscious. And sentience or cognition also doesn't follow beyond consciousness either. Yes we are conscious. There is no reason to think there is some grand universal consciousness to us beyond what we see.

When you say that consciousness is self-evident, it is so without an agent of consciousness. IOW, the self-evident experience of consciousness does not require an individual ego called 'I'. There is simply consciousness, up front and present all the time. The moment we say: 'I am conscious', mind has been created out of consciousness, but mind is an illusion, a self-created principle, and therefore, so is 'I', as 'I' is a creation of mind. Only self-evident consciousness is real.

Having said that, if there is no personal agent of consciousness called 'I', then consciousness must be non-local, or universal. But even if you still insist that consciousness is a local phenomenon, please show how consciousness, which is non-material, can be contained by the material brain. (I am assuming you hold that consciousness is a product of the material brain.)

It's not so much that the universe perse is conscious, but rather that consciousness is manifesting the universe as the universe. The ordinary conditioned mind sees a universe composed of many 'parts', existing in Time and Space, and as having a beginning due to causation. The awakened mind sees it as The Absolute itself, manifesting as The Universe, uncaused, timeless and not existing in space. IOW, the consciousness that is The Absolute is 'playing' at being you and I, and all the myriad 'parts' of the universe simultaneously. But our egoic, illusory 'I' is telling us that IT is the player; that IT is the do-er, and we believe it.

You are a total action of the universe, just as a wave is a total action of the ocean.

The Big Bang was an event in consciousness, outside of Time and Space.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

When you say that consciousness is self-evident, it is so without an agent of consciousness. IOW, the self-evident experience of consciousness does not require an individual ego called 'I'. There is simply consciousness, up front and present all the time. The moment we say: 'I am conscious', mind has been created out of consciousness, but mind is an illusion, and therefore, so is 'I'. Only the self-evident consciousness is real.

Having said that, if there is no personal agent of consciousness called 'I', then consciousness must be non-local, or universal. But even if you still insist that consciousness is a local phenomenon, please show how consciousness, which is non-material, can be contained by the material brain. (I am assuming you hold that consciousness is a product of the material brain.)

I would argue for something to be meaningfully "aware" there must be some form of cognition. So without cognition I wouldn't give the rest of your assumptions about "I" and what not. Is a rock conscious? If it is it doesn't know it. There is no difference to the rock if it was or was not conscious. When we are "awake" and have sentience it comes down to cognition. We can be "unconscious" or without consciousness when we are asleep or dead for example. Nothing else is missing except the cognition.

 

[Unification]

So do you think the world disappears while you're asleep?

While my mini-world mind is in a state of what we call sleep, nothing/no-thing disappears. Everything/every-thing remains as does nothing/no-thing.

Since "I AM" a part of the universal mind, TO ME.... The external world in my world disappears while the internal world of mine remains.

 

[Unification]

I would argue for something to be meaningfully "aware" there must be some form of cognition. So without cognition I wouldn't give the rest of your assumptions about "I" and what not. Is a rock conscious? If it is it doesn't know it. There is no difference to the rock if it was or was not conscious. When we are "awake" and have sentience it comes down to cognition. We can be "unconscious" or without consciousness when we are asleep or dead for example. Nothing else is missing except the cognition.

The rock isn't made of particles/matter. It is made of mathematics.

Reality is based on mathematics but mathematics is based on nothing/no-thing.

There is no such thing as nothing, nothing is primordial consciousness.

Something to consider: finite and infinity. Finite as matter and infinity as consciousness.

Mathematics is based on zero, nothing.

Zero can be defined as either nothing or everything. No-thing=consciousness. Every-thing=matter.

We can never stop counting and reach a peak number.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

The Big Bang was an event in consciousness, outside of Time and Space.

Baloney!

 

[Monk Of Reason]

You are saying a whole lot of wrong stuff here. Letting you know that first.

The rock isn't made of particles/matter. It is made of mathematics.

False. A rock is made of matter and particles. Mathmatics are concepts. They don't "actually" exist.

Reality is based on mathematics but mathematics is based on nothing/no-thing.

No. Reality is reality. Mathematics are concepts based on this reality. One could argue that 2+2 will always be 4 even if the rules of the universe change but in reality it might not. But no. The universe is not based upon a concept. The concepts are based upon the universe.

There is no such thing as nothing, nothing is primordial consciousness.

You mean absolute nothing? Perhaps but it is also ill defined. And there is no such thing as "nothing" but "nothing is "primordial consciousness"? You just made that up without any logical connectors.

Something to consider: finite and infinity. Finite as matter and infinity as consciousness.

Baseless. Finite is a description. Infinite is also a description but there is nothing physical that can be described this way.

Mathematics is based on zero, nothing.

No. Mathmatics are based on logic. Zero is a mathmatical concept.

Zero can be defined as either nothing or everything. No-thing=consciousness. Every-thing=matter.

Zero cannot be defined as everything. It is just a number. It is just a concept that uses two major purposes in Arabic numerals. The first being to signify that there is exactly "zero" quantities of something and as a 'Placeholder" to allow for easier calculations with big numbers.

We can never stop counting and reach a peak number.

That is because they are concepts.

 

[godnotgod]

Baloney!

Baloney yourself!

Show me how Time and Space came out of a condition where no Time or Space existed. For that matter, show me how the physical universe can have emerged from a condition without Time or Space.

Consciousness exists outside of Time and Space. The BB can only have come from consciousness. Time and Space are purely mental concepts.

 

[Unification]

You are saying a whole lot of wrong stuff here. Letting you know that first.


False. A rock is made of matter and particles. Mathmatics are concepts. They don't "actually" exist.

No. Reality is reality. Mathematics are concepts based on this reality. One could argue that 2+2 will always be 4 even if the rules of the universe change but in reality it might not. But no. The universe is not based upon a concept. The concepts are based upon the universe.

You mean absolute nothing? Perhaps but it is also ill defined. And there is no such thing as "nothing" but "nothing is "primordial consciousness"? You just made that up without any logical connectors.

Baseless. Finite is a description. Infinite is also a description but there is nothing physical that can be described this way.

No. Mathmatics are based on logic. Zero is a mathmatical concept.

Zero cannot be defined as everything. It is just a number. It is just a concept that uses two major purposes in Arabic numerals. The first being to signify that there is exactly "zero" quantities of something and as a 'Placeholder" to allow for easier calculations with big numbers.

That is because they are concepts.

Then one must eliminate anything quantum and deem it incorrect.

Solid matter has been reduced to invisible waves existing in a field of mathematical probabilities.

 

[godnotgod]

I would argue for something to be meaningfully "aware" there must be some form of cognition. So without cognition I wouldn't give the rest of your assumptions about "I" and what not. Is a rock conscious? If it is it doesn't know it. There is no difference to the rock if it was or was not conscious. When we are "awake" and have sentience it comes down to cognition. We can be "unconscious" or without consciousness when we are asleep or dead for example. Nothing else is missing except the cognition.

Cognition is a process of mind. Consciousness is already in place before mind.

Again, it's not that a rock is conscious; it's that consciousness is what is manifesting as 'rock', just as the universe is manifesting as 'monk of reason' along with everything else.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It doesn't imply a universal consciousness. Quantum physics and anything does need an observer though for it to be anything. Using deductive logic, everything goes back to and derives from consciousness and is consciousness. It's inevitable.

In this context, "observer" doesn't imply "conscious". You're reading way too much into a metaphorical description of some mathematical equations.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Cognition is a process of mind. Consciousness is already in place before mind.

Again, it's not that a rock is conscious; it's that consciousness is what is manifesting as 'rock', just as the universe is manifesting as 'monk of reason' along with everything else.

Not necessarily. Cognition is the processing of information. The processing of information can exist prior to self awareness. Computers can have rudimentary forms of cognition but don't have forms of consciousness for example. Unless you define consciousness as simply being able to obtain and react to information around you I don't think you have a leg to stand on with your necessity based philosophical arguments.

 

[godnotgod]

Then one must eliminate anything quantum and deem it incorrect.

Solid matter has been reduced to invisible waves existing in a field of mathematical probabilities.

This is now fact. The mass of all physical reality is being created by virtual particle fluctuations in the Quantum and Higgs fields. Therefore, all physical reality is virtual. Of course, the East has been saying that the physical world of forms is empty and illusory for centuries.

 

[godnotgod]

Not necessarily. Cognition is the processing of information. The processing of information can exist prior to self awareness. Computers can have rudimentary forms of cognition but don't have forms of consciousness for example. Unless you define consciousness as simply being able to obtain and react to information around you I don't think you have a leg to stand on with your necessity based philosophical arguments.

Information can be processed in two ways: via consciousness, ie; seeing, without thought, and via mind, ie; thinking and reason. The results differ.

and a third, as you mentioned, ie; via computer processing. However, computer processing requires pre-programming by humans with minds, so I would eliminate computers.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Information can be processed in two ways: via consciousness, ie; seeing, without thought, and via mind, ie; thinking and reason. The results differ.

and a third, as you mentioned, ie; via computer processing. However, computer processing requires pre-programming by humans with minds, so I would eliminate computers.

Also not necessarily. We can see things evolve over time from simple to complex. For example mindless molecules can transfer information. Information can be passed on through a variety of ways that don't require any kind of "thinking". But again "thinking" via the "mind" requires comprehension and cognition. Without that its nothing special.

 

[Unification]

You are saying a whole lot of wrong stuff here. Letting you know that first.


False. A rock is made of matter and particles. Mathmatics are concepts. They don't "actually" exist.

No. Reality is reality. Mathematics are concepts based on this reality. One could argue that 2+2 will always be 4 even if the rules of the universe change but in reality it might not. But no. The universe is not based upon a concept. The concepts are based upon the universe.

You mean absolute nothing? Perhaps but it is also ill defined. And there is no such thing as "nothing" but "nothing is "primordial consciousness"? You just made that up without any logical connectors.

Baseless. Finite is a description. Infinite is also a description but there is nothing physical that can be described this way.

No. Mathmatics are based on logic. Zero is a mathmatical concept.

Zero cannot be defined as everything. It is just a number. It is just a concept that uses two major purposes in Arabic numerals. The first being to signify that there is exactly "zero" quantities of something and as a 'Placeholder" to allow for easier calculations with big numbers.

That is because they are concepts.

You speak of one who is indirectly consciousness proactive. Concepts are mental and conscious. Unconscious of being conscious.

If concepts are mental and counting to the highest number is endless and infinite, as a concept, then consciousness must be infinite.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

You speak of one who is indirectly consciousness proactive. Concepts are mental and conscious. Unconscious of being conscious.

I'm not sure what you mean here.

If concepts are mental and counting to the highest number is endless and infinite, as a concept, then consciousness must be infinite.

If there was someone who was able to go into that much then yes. Otherwise no. There is limits to our own capabilities. But there is no limit specifically to concepts. It doesn't mean that we are limitless in our capability to realize them.

 

[Twilight Hue]

While my mini-world mind is in a state of what we call sleep, nothing/no-thing disappears. Everything/every-thing remains as does nothing/no-thing.

Since "I AM" a part of the universal mind, TO ME.... The external world in my world disappears while the internal world of mine remains.

Actually "I Am" stays active and aware as a collective community maintaining body functions and maintains a base awareness by which "I Am" wakes up eventually to proceed as a "central" aspect of consciousness albeit not as centralized as most would think or are led to believe.

Universal consciousness. Is it regarded as being collective or centralized by which it's defined?