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What scientific evidence do we have for the existence of human consciousness?

godnotgod

Thou art That
Also not necessarily. We can see things evolve over time from simple to complex. For example mindless molecules can transfer information. Information can be passed on through a variety of ways that don't require any kind of "thinking". But again "thinking" via the "mind" requires comprehension and cognition. Without that its nothing special.

Universal consciousness is 'nothing special'. If anything is 'special', it is sculpted, conditioned consciousness.

Consciousness has pre-programmed our brains and molecules to take care of certain functions. That way, it doesn't have to be up front all the time to beat your heart, exchange gases, digest your food, etc. This way, it can pay attention to the immediate, spontaneous events in the present moment, such as a tiger about to spring.

The fact that molecules can transfer information is a sign of underlying intelligence, and therefore, consciousness. They don't need to think; they just need to respond.


Can you have comprehension based on pure insight, without thought?
 

Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
Universal consciousness is 'nothing special'. If anything is 'special', it is sculpted, conditioned consciousness.

Consciousness has pre-programmed our brains and molecules to take care of certain functions. That way, it doesn't have to be up front all the time to beat your heart, exchange gases, digest your food, etc. This way, it can pay attention to the immediate, spontaneous events in the present moment, such as a tiger about to spring. T

he fact that molecules can transfer information is a sign of underlying intelligence, and therefore, consciousness. They don't need to think; they just need to respond.


we often call this the laws of physics. Is it your position the laws of physics is somehow consciousness rather than just the laws of physics?
Can you have comprehension based on pure insight, without thought?
No. You cannot.
 

Monk Of Reason

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
So Zen is completley without merit?
In reality? Possibly. But even "zen" has some cognitive thought. There is no such thing as comprehension without cognition.

Animals comprehend without rational thought, simply by seeing what is and responding directly.
No. They still have cognition. It simply isn't on the level we have. They are more prone to reacting but it still based off of cognitive brain activity. Ice freezing at 0 degree's Celsius is without thinking. But that is a purely physical reaction.
 

Gambit

Well-Known Member
ON a sidenote, this is why atheists often challenge theists to "define God". God can not be analyzed or even debated in scientific circles until one clearly defines "god" in terms where such can be objectively analyzed. But that is a discussion for another thread ....

You entirely missed the point I made in the OP. Consciousness (human, divine, or otherwise) cannot be objectively measured. It can only be inferred. Therefore, it is completely absurd to demand objective evidence for something that is inherently subjective.

To state that there is "scientific evidence of universal consciousness" is greatly in error as "consciousness" has yet to be defined in scientific terms.

I did not argue that there is scientific evidence for the existence of universal consciousness. I argued that there is scientific evidence to infer the existence of universal consciousness. (There's scientific evidence to infer the existence (or presence) of human consciousness.)
 
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Bunyip

pro scapegoat
If you believe in a thing and consider it a god, then that thing is suitably "theistic" to exclude you from atheism.
Not really, especially given that they would most likely still be atheist in relation to the god being discussed (generally Yahweh). Also, theism is a specific category of Gods. The personal, interventionist kind.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
we often call this the laws of physics. Is it your position the laws of physics is somehow consciousness rather than just the laws of physics?

No. You cannot.

Cognition would derive from an outside and external source using the laws of physics. This is something that is spot on. Cognition does derive from an external source.
 

NewGuyOnTheBlock

Cult Survivor/Fundamentalist Pentecostal Apostate
Consciousness itself is rather self evident. Yes. But that doesn't equate to anything special about the universe nor does it claim that the whole universe is conscious. And sentience or cognition also doesn't follow beyond consciousness either. Yes we are conscious. There is no reason to think there is some grand universal consciousness to us beyond what we see.

I agree that consciousness, from a philosophical point of view, or from the point of view of Webster's nonspecific definition of "consciousness", is self-evident. From a scientific point of view (as I'll go into a bit more detail below), I strongly disagree that consciousness is "self-evident".

You entirely missed the point I made in the OP. Consciousness (human, divine, or otherwise) cannot be objectively measured. It can only be inferred. Therefore, it is completely absurd to demand objective evidence for something that is inherently subjective.

No, I don't think that I missed the point. You asked for scientific evidence of the existence of human consciousness. For a given thing to have scientific evidence, there must be, in existence, a specific scientific definition of that given thing.

I demonstrated this anomaly in my example; explaining the "everyday" layman's definition of "planet" and comparing it to the scientific definition of "planet" and showed how certain space objects fit the definition of "planet"; but when the scientific definition of "planet" enters the picture, the outcome changes as to what is and is not a "planet".

So, if we are being asked, "What is the scientific evidence for human consciousness", the answer remains "none" for the reason specified.

However, if you are to ask, "what is the scientific evidence for human consciousness as defined by philosophy", then the scientific evidence is immeasurable and (to steal someone else's word), self-evident; basically that we are aware of ourselves and our environment; and that we are capable of adapting to our environments; which has been demonstrated through innumerable studies and experiments; and is echoed throughout various fields of science (sociology, psychology, political science, anthropology).

Once the words "science" or "scientific" enters the picture, precise and clear definitions of the idea one is attempting to convey become necessary.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Actually "I Am" stays active and aware as a collective community maintaining body functions and maintains a base awareness by which "I Am" wakes up eventually to proceed as a "central" aspect of consciousness albeit not as centralized as most would think or are led to believe.

Universal consciousness. Is it regarded as being collective or centralized by which it's defined?

Collective and centralized.

It's the unified field of intelligent energy that is nothing and everything.

The mind is dual, like anything else in the universe. Conscious and then subconscious/unconscious.

Collective would be more towards subconscious/unconscious.

Centralized would be more towards an individual who has made the mind whole, united the conscious with the subconscious/unconscious creating a superconscious. Divine marriage of mind. Marriage of opposites. Balanced and centralized mind. The bible calls this the marriage of husband and wife. Higher mind uniting with lower mind. It's why the lower mind must submit to the higher mind ;).
 

Bunyip

pro scapegoat
Question:

What scientific evidence do we have for the existence of human consciousness?
Scientific knowledge in it's entirety is evidence of human consciousness. Every single thing humans have learned and done.
Answer:

No evidence. There isn't any objective and measurable evidence that human consciousness even exists.

Why is this relevant? Because atheists demand scientific evidence for the existence of a universal or divine consciousness (a.k.a. God).

We can't objectively measure consciousness. We can only infer it.

Question:

Is there any scientific evidence to infer the existence of a universal or divine consciousness?

Answer:

Yes, most definitely. Due to quantum indeterminism, entanglement, and the observer effect, we have every reason to infer a universal consciousness. In fact, many of the founders of quantum mechanics did exactly that .
 

NewGuyOnTheBlock

Cult Survivor/Fundamentalist Pentecostal Apostate
PPS: For "universal consciousness?"

None. Not a shred. Not one tiny dribble of scientific knowledge supports a "universal consciousness".
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
PPS: For "universal consciousness?"
None. Not a shred. Not one tiny dribble of scientific knowledge supports a "universal consciousness".

I agree. It's basically a religious belief which is also popular with new-agers who love the pseudo-science. I think you could say there is a universal quality to consciousness, but beyond that it rapidly gets very speculative.
 
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viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Question:

What scientific evidence do we have for the existence of human consciousness?

Answer:

No evidence. There isn't any objective and measurable evidence that human consciousness even exists.

Why is this relevant? Because atheists demand scientific evidence for the existence of a universal or divine consciousness (a.k.a. God).

We can't objectively measure consciousness. We can only infer it.

Question:

Is there any scientific evidence to infer the existence of a universal or divine consciousness?

Answer:

Yes, most definitely. Due to quantum indeterminism, entanglement, and the observer effect, we have every reason to infer a universal consciousness. In fact, many of the founders of quantum mechanics did exactly that .

Mmh. If consciousness is universal, then that big mountain in front of me is conscious too, or it participates to the global consciousness scenario. Correct?

Ciao

- viole
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Mmh. If consciousness is universal, then that big mountain in front of me is conscious too, or it participates to the global consciousness scenario. Correct?

I still haven't seen a coherent definition for "universal consciousness", there seem to be all sorts of vague ideas floating around.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Collective and centralized.

It's the unified field of intelligent energy that is nothing and everything.

The mind is dual, like anything else in the universe. Conscious and then subconscious/unconscious.

Collective would be more towards subconscious/unconscious.

Centralized would be more towards an individual who has made the mind whole, united the conscious with the subconscious/unconscious creating a superconscious. Divine marriage of mind. Marriage of opposites. Balanced and centralized mind. The bible calls this the marriage of husband and wife. Higher mind uniting with lower mind. It's why the lower mind must submit to the higher mind ;).
I was referencing each cell within our body that works as a collective consciousness while we sleep, each conscious cell maintaining our functions, and at times waking us up when danger presents itself that gives way to our primary sense of consciousness by which we precive as a singular phenomina.

It seems you have taken the definition of consciousness and spruced it up quite a bit beyond the actuality of the experience.

;0]
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
I was referencing each cell within our body that works as a collective consciousness while we sleep, each conscious cell maintaining our functions, and at times waking us up when danger presents itself that gives way to our primary sense of consciousness by which we precive as a singular phenomina.

It seems you have taken the definition of consciousness and spruced it up quite a bit beyond the actuality of the experience.

;0]

Indeed I have attempted definition, as asked. Definition is worthless. Experience is everything, limitless, and immeasurable.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
Mmh. If consciousness is universal, then that big mountain in front of me is conscious too, or it participates to the global consciousness scenario. Correct?

Ciao

- viole

The irony is, using scientific law, mountains would be conscious.

If consciousness were created by matter then information is encoded into matter. This is incorrect.

During the past decade, astrochemists have found that DNA molecules, the fundamental building blocks of life, find their origins not on Earth, but in the Cosmos. They are the languange of the Universe, the information they inherited comes from the stars and the cosmic ecology that formed them.

Information being built up over time.

Then what is information? Energy in motion.

Information is not consciousness.

Consciousness would be, "being in-formed or as being "in formation." Being.

Then there must be a molecule (DNA) that functions as the source of speaking, walking, reading, and doing mathematics, etc.

Then one must credit that DNA knows math, which would give it a mind.
Can we really believe that anyone, and all other producers of words, get their inspiration from amino acids, enzymes, and proteins, which is what DNA actually produces?

Yes, we actually can in a sense. Consciousness and science are both correct. Information is encoded in forms of subatomic invisible energies. Energetic communication from one conscious source to another. Subtle undetectable intelligence.

Inspiration, thoughts, intuition, new ideas, etc seem to just arise into our minds and we don't know how. Classical physics explains this well. Our brains and bodies are not exempt from laws. Cognition arises from external stimuli, this is the collective conscious. Being's being "in-formed" by means of subatomic energies.

If information is encoded into matter, then yes a mountain would be conscious according to science.

Scientists are completely baffled how any matter can be conscious.

But then there is the science that states:
Solid matter has been reduced to invisible waves existing in a field of mathematical probabilities.

The probability of an event, any event only exists as long as there is someone to ask the question of what may happen and to measure the outcomes when they occur. So probabilities and other mathematical expressions, which are the foundation of modern quantum physics, imply the existence of observation.

Reality is based on math but math is broken down to nothing at all. Then what is nothing? Nothing is everything: primordial consciousness. It's self evident this exists and we "experience" all of its effects but we don't know what it is using science because it cannot be seen or measured or be made technical... It is to be experienced. To BE "in-formed."

The reason why anything (including us) seems to be real physical things made up of particles is because our souls(electromagnetic fields of energy) became complex enough to create amazing brains to give us this experience. Think about a computer game. It presents worlds and characters to us as we see and experience the computer screen and controller. But really this computer game is made up of a bunch or 0’s and 1’s! It’s not really a person running around on the screen; it’s a bunch of zeros and ones. Our brains work the same way. When we pick up a rock, we aren’t really touching a physical object. Instead we are picking up a mathematical formula that our brains interpret as a solid piece of granite, quartz, or whatever. It is the hardware of our brains that allows us beings (accumulated experiences) to sense and experience physicality. The strange thing is that our brains are also not real. They, too, are just complex mathematical formulas interpreting other complex mathematical formulas.

Solid matter has been reduced to invisible waves existing in a field of mathematical probabilities.

The probability of an event, any event only exists as long as there is someone to ask the question of what may happen and to measure the outcomes when they occur. So probabilities and other mathematical expressions, which are the foundation of modern quantum physics, imply the existence of observation. Countless acts of observation give substance and reality to what would otherwise be ghosts of existence.

Information encoded into all matter, isn't logical either because "information" is a mental concept, and without the concept, there's no information in anything, since information by definition must ultimately contain meaning (even if it is a sequence of 0’s and 1’s as in computer language), and only minds grasp meaning and receive information.

Information comes from the experience of consciousness interacting within its limited forms, it is "in-formed" or "in formation" which is conscious being.


The intellect has little to do on the road to discovery. There comes a leap in consciousness, call it intuition or what you will; the solution comes to you and you don't know how or why. The truly valuable thing is the intuition.
Albert Einstein

My brain is only a receiver, in the Universe there is a core from which we obtain knowledge, strength and inspiration. I have not penetrated into the secrets of this core, but I know that it exists. Nikola Tesla

“It was not possible to formulate the laws of quantum mechanics in a fully consistent way without reference to consciousness.” Eugene Wigner, theoretical physicist and mathematician. He received a share of the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1963

I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulating consciousness.” – Max Planck, theoretical physicist who originated quantum theory, which won him the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1918

It is by humbling oneself and entering within ourselves that we experience wonderful counseling, wisdom, knowledge, love, peace, oneness from the Source.

Existence is comprised of three components: energy (motion), matter, and consciousness. Essentially these are all ONE. Energy is neither created nor destroyed. Matter is neither created nor destroyed. Consciousness is neither created nor destroyed. You cannot have the one without the other. In order for consciousness to “be,” a vehicle (body) is needed. As matter (the body) is put into motion (energy) consciousness has the chance to experience, eventually given rise to self awareness.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
I still haven't seen a coherent definition for "universal consciousness", there seem to be all sorts of vague ideas floating around.

Needs no definition. That would be like having measurement, calculation, visible observation and data for every single breath of experience that you ever took, and that all life has ever took.
 

Unification

Well-Known Member
I agree. It's basically a religious belief which is also popular with new-agers who love the pseudo-science. I think you could say there is a universal quality to consciousness, but beyond that it rapidly gets very speculative.

All of science is built on "hidden meanings." Would that make it pseudo-science and religious belief itself?

What are new-agers? What are old-agers?
 
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