Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Sorry, that is not about the attributes of God, as I described in the OP.
That is about what God said to Jesus so it is off topic.
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What the New Testament says about God is true
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
That is about what God said to Jesus so it is off topic.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
You are assuming that there is more than one. Moses was regarded as a prophet and he is traditionally attributed with authorship.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I am not assuming anything. I just believe what modern scholars say.
Who really wrote the book Exodus?
Traditionally ascribed to Moses himself, modern scholars see its initial composition as a product of the Babylonian exile (6th century BCE), based on earlier written sources and oral traditions, with final revisions in the Persian post-exilic period (5th century BCE).
Book of Exodus - Wikipedia
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
You're treating Wikipedia as if it is a reliable source. It's not. The denigration of Moses is part of traditional theology, based in part on the Pauline libel.
And not as Moses, [which] put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
2 Corinthians 3:13
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Wikipedia is only one source, and other modern scholars will back up what it says in Wikipedia.
Its authorship has traditionally been ascribed to Moses. Modern scholars assign the Book to a later time than that of Moses, some holding it to be a composite work, its strata probably having been written between the 9th and 5th cents. bc. The date of the Exodus is also debated, but most scholars favour the 13th cent.
Book of Exodus - Oxford Reference
I do not give a rip about traditional theology or what tradition ascribes to Moses since there is no reason for me to believe in tradition, especially when it has been refuted by research.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
Wikipedia is a cognitive infiltration operation.
The point is that there is institutional prejudice against Moses. There is no research that refutes that because the case for Pauline libel is so strong and because of the Pauline influence on Christian theology.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You can believe whatever you want. There is no research that demonstrates that Moses wrote The Book of Exodus.
Ebionite
Well-Known Member
It's not about belief. The original DNS records for Wikipedia were connected to Wikileaks.
Sunstein suggests that the government should use conspiracies (i.e., cognitive infiltration, social interference via cognitive diversity) to stop debates about governmental conspiracies – an absurd idea which he articulated in several papers. Given his position as a presidential adviser it is realistic to assume that his ideas have real-world impact.
Cass Sunstein – Cognitive infiltration | Cognitive-Liberty.online
Read website aloud (Text-to-Speech synthesis) Cass Robert Sunstein FBA is an American legal scholar, particularly in the fields of constitutional law, administrative law, environmental law, and law and behavioral economics, who was the Administrator of the White House Office of Information and...
cognitive-liberty.online
And the New Testament says that God instituted those governing authorities.
So do you think that God appointed those who had the Bàb executed?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, I don't.
So much for "what the New Testament says about God is true," eh?
Are there any other points where you disagree with your own OP?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I don't believe that everything that the New Testament says about God is true, so I should have said in the OP "I believe that certain things that the New Testament says about God is true, e.g., that God is loving, merciful, forgiving, and trustworthy."
IOW, you only accept the New Testament to the extent that it agrees with what you already believe?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
The Baha'i Faith is easily written off as a false religion by Born Again Christians. And going by what those Christians believe, that are based on things in the NT, I can see why.
Baha'is don't believe in salvation as do Born Again Christians... Along with not believing that Jesus is God or that he physically came back to life.
The differences can't be reconciled unless a person does what the Baha'is do... that is... say those Christians are wrong. And I've heard many a Baha'i tell those Christians they are wrong. And I'd swear that one of them was TB. Especially when she tells them that Jesus is never, ever coming back.
But again, there is my disclaimer... The Baha'i explanation of why those Born Again Christians works to satisfy Baha'is that they are the ones that are right in the argument, and the Christians are wrong. That they have taken their Scriptures way too literally. That some things, like the resurrection, should have been interpreted symbolically.
And for Born Again Christians... The Baha'is are wrong. Their prophet is not the Christ. Jesus himself is coming back. He died to save us, and the Baha'is don't accept the true Jesus... the one that died on the cross and rose from the dead and is God in the flesh. They have made up a Jesus that has nothing to do with the real Jesus.
But for Atheists, they both have something important in common... They both believe in a God that can't be proven to exist.
I'm a loosely tethered Catholic. To me if a guy literally decares himself to be God's gift to mankind and the return of Christ, I would like more than the oceans of flowery words
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CG Didymus
Veteran Member
It sure seems so. Here's a quote...
We cannot be sure how much or how little of the four Gospels are accurate and include the words of Christ and His undiluted teachings, all we can be sure of, as Bahá’ís, is that what has been quoted by Bahá’u’lláh and the Master must be absolutely authentic. As many times passages in the Gospel of St. John are quoted we may assume that it is his Gospel and much of it accurate.
Shoghi Effendi, Extracts From The Bahá’í Writings And From Letters Of The Guardian And The Universal House Of Justice On The Old And New Testaments
And here it says that a Baha'is can "assume" that John wrote his gospel? And much of it is accurate? That's going to mess up that no "eyewitness" thread.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
So, what the NT claims that God did doesn't count... only things about this assumed God's attributes. Okay.
But then this should be off topic too. Right?
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
When I was around the Baha'is, I read mostly Abdul Baha's stuff. Baha'u'llah was too flowery and Shoghi Effendi was too wordy.
Baha'u'llah...
Praise be to God, the Eternal that perisheth not, the Everlasting that declineth not, the Self-Subsisting that altereth not. He it is Who is transcendent in His sovereignty, Who is manifest through His signs, and is hidden through His mysteries. He it is at Whose bidding the standard of the Most Exalted Word hath been lifted up in the world of creation, and the banner of “He doeth whatsoever He willeth” raised amidst all peoples. He it is Who hath revealed His Cause for the guidance of His creatures, and sent down His verses to demonstrate His Proof and His Testimony, and embellished the preface of the Book of Man with the ornament of utterance through His saying: “The God of Mercy hath taught the Qur’án, hath created man, and taught him articulate speech.” No God is there but Him, the One, the Peerless, the Powerful, the Mighty, the Beneficent.
The light that is shed from the heaven of bounty, and the benediction that shineth from the dawning-place of the will of God, the Lord of the Kingdom of Names, rest upon Him Who is the Supreme Mediator, the Most Exalted Pen, Him Whom God hath made the Dawning-Place of His most excellent names and the Dayspring of His most exalted attributes. Through Him the light of unity hath shone forth above the horizon of the world, and the law of oneness hath been revealed amidst the nations, who, with radiant faces, have turned towards the Supreme Horizon, and acknowledged that which the Tongue of Utterance hath spoken in the kingdom of His knowledge: “Earth and heaven, glory and dominion, are God’s, the Omnipotent, the Almighty, the Lord of grace abounding!”
Give ear, O distinguished divine, unto the voice of this Wronged One. He verily, counselleth thee for the sake of God, and exhorteth thee unto that which will cause thee to draw nigh unto Him under all conditions. He, in truth, is the All-Possessing, the Exalted...
Shoghi Effendi...
How well we, the little band of His avowed supporters who lay claim to have recognized the Light that shone within Him, can still remember His repeated allusions, in the evening of His earthly life, to the tribulation and turmoil with which an unregenerate humanity was to be increasingly afflicted. How poignantly some of us can recall His pregnant remarks, in the presence of the pilgrims and visitors who thronged His doors on the morrow of the jubilant celebrations that greeted the termination of the World War—a war, which by the horrors it evoked, the losses it entailed and the complications it engendered, was destined to exert so far-reaching an influence on the fortunes of mankind. How serenely, yet how powerfully, He stressed the cruel deception which a Pact, hailed by peoples and nations as the embodiment of triumphant justice and the unfailing instrument of an abiding peace, held in store for an unrepented humanity. Peace, Peace, how often we heard Him remark, the lips of potentates and peoples unceasingly proclaim, whereas the fire of unquenched hatreds still smoulders in their hearts. How often we heard Him raise His voice, whilst the tumult of triumphant enthusiasm was still at its height and long before the faintest misgivings could have been felt or expressed, confidently declaring that the Document, extolled as the Charter of a liberated humanity, contained within itself seeds of such bitter deception as would further enslave the world. How abundant are now the evidences that attest the perspicacity of His unerring judgment!
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It may count but that is not what I was addressing in my OP. I was only addressing God's attributes.