What would be evidence that God exists?

[osgart]

It is as simple as saying you believe that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God and you will be faithful to the Covenant of Baha'u'llah.

Well from what I have read Baha'u'llah is very entertaining. The scriptures tell you things that are very much interesting in many parts. However I am firmly convinced that all religion is mythological, tall tales. The scriptures you tell me about are poetic though.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is anyone perfect? And which manifestation revealed all this logic stuff? Would it be too hasty to say "none"? It's man made stuff.

Logic is from man but it is important to know about.

 

[CG Didymus]

No, not really.

So why keep trying to understand it? Many people who accept the gospels believe that the Book of Revelation is the ramblings of a madman.

I pointed you to the following book and you said you already knew about it:

Apocalypse Secrets: Baha'i Interpretation of the Book of Revelation Paperback – January 23, 2011

https://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Secrets-Bahai-Interpretation-Revelation/dp/1456443623

There might be other books written by Baha'is, I don't know.

I might get that book cited above. I usually wait till I have enough books to order so I can get free shipping. I just clicked in the link and saw another book I would like to read. the author is on the NSA of the United States:

God Speaks Again: An Introduction to the Baha'i Faith Paperback – October 1, 2004
by Kenneth E Bowers (Author)

https://www.amazon.com/God-Speaks-Again-Introduction-Bahai

Take a look at the table of contents. It is a Baha'i book. It's not going to go in depth into each chapter of Revelation. And, it will only repeat what Abdul Baha' has said in SAQ about the Three Woes and the Two Witnesses.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well from what I have read Baha'u'llah is very entertaining. The scriptures tell you things that are very much interesting in many parts. However I am firmly convinced that all religion is mythological, tall tales. The scriptures you tell me about are poetic though.

Okay, fair enough... We humans tend to view the same things differently although some of us view them the same way.... Me and Tony for example.

 

[CG Didymus]

No, not really.

I have, but I was believing three different things about God and truth each time. That makes me think that religious/spiritual beliefs are relative. If a person believes they are true, they become true for them.

 

[CG Didymus]

Yeah, After Mohammad, all had to be Muslims, and after Bahaollah, all had to be Bahais. But after Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, all do not have to be Ahmadiyyas!
Bahais, you are refusing a Mahdi sent by Allah. You are doomed. You are blasphemers, you are heretics. You are not doing what Bahaollah asked you to do. Refusing a man of Allah! There cannot be a sin greater than that.

Bahaollah said, "His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed."

Bahais, your 19th Century Iranian preacher did not start a new religion. Your religion is the religion of the God of Abraham, right from Adam to Noah to Krishna to Zoroaster to Moses to Buddha to Jesus to Mohammad to Bahaollah. Even Mirza Ghulam Ahmad did not establish a new religion. It is the same, the religion of the God of Abraham. Do not say that you are anything other than that.
Accept Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and the testimony of his Revelation lest you incur the wrath of Allah.

Funny... Baha'i don't ever talk about him, unless you bring him up.

 

[osgart]

Okay, fair enough... We humans tend to view the same things differently although some of us view them the same way.... Me and Tony for example.

I've met three Ba'hai people on here. You, Tony, and I believe shunyadragon is a Ba'hai.

I took my God search off the map of religion though. And I've scaled down my ideas about God. So much so that I can not call source reality God.

I truly don't want the atheism.

 

[CG Didymus]

I do not see any reason why it has to be an all or nothing. I believe that some is literal and some is symbolic.

And some you believe is BS? Or, no? It's all true, just what is unbelievable or doesn't fit with Baha'i beliefs is symbolic? Yeah, sure... if you're a Baha'i. But you can see why others look at that kind of interpreting of the Bible with suspicion?

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, why would you. But me, I wonder. Why would the Jewish scribes change the story. It's their story. And probably a fictional story at that. So all scribes decides to make the change and destroyed all the copies of the Bible that had Ishmael? Then lobotomized all the Jews that had memorized the old version? Or, Baha'u'llah wanted a greater connection to the Jewish Scriptures, so he switched Ishmael for Isaac. Much easier for me to believe. But it puts a huge question mark on the validity on the Baha'i Faith, and on Islam and Muhammad too if they agree with him.

This is such an small thing it is hardly with mentioning let alone discussing.
Who cares if it was Ishmael or Issac? The Baha'i position is perfectly logical:

The Bahá'ís believe what is in the Bible to be true in substance. This does not mean that every word recorded in that Book is to be taken literally and treated as the authentic saying of a Prophet. A striking example is given in the account of the sacrifice which Abraham was called upon to make. The Guardian of the Faith confirms that the record in the Qur'an and the Writings of Bahá'u'lláh, namely that it was Ishmael, and not Isaac as stated in the Old Testament, whom Abraham was to sacrifice, is to be upheld. In one of His Tablets 'Abdu'l-Bahá refers to this discrepancy, and explains that, from a spiritual point of view, it is irrelevant which son was involved. The essential part of the story is that Abraham was willing to obey God's command to sacrifice His son. Thus, although the account in the Torah is inaccurate in detail, it is true in substance....
(9 August 1984 to an individual believer)

The Bible: Extracts on the Old and New Testaments

When women stop being sexually attractive. Only some religious men try to stop, because they are taught that it is sinful. Is it?

Okay, thanks for the honest answer even though it makes us older women feel less than human.
I am sure glad I do not put my value in my physical appearance anymore.

 

[CG Didymus]

Because Baha'u'llah named Noah and Abraham in The Kitáb-i-Íqán....

And Abdu'l-Baha names Adam in Some Answered Questions

Yes, and do you believe the Bible stories about them?

 

[CG Didymus]

Learning about them is one thing but continuing to talk about them over and over and over keeps you in the dark.

But to not learn about the other religions is being in the dark too? So when does knowing too much about the past religions becomes a problem? Or, is it just when people talk too much about them?

 

[Trailblazer]

Not one Jew has ever knocked on my door to tell me about Judaism. Not one Jew has ever handed me a pamphlet about Judaism.

That is irrelevant to the point. Jews still believe that have the one true religion. They believe they are the chosen ones and that they will be restored to their former glory when the Messiah comes. They do not want to share that position of superiority with anyone else and that is why they do not try to convert anyone.

 

[CG Didymus]

This is such an small thing it is hardly with mentioning let alone discussing.

Adrian said the same thing. But you are saying the Bible and the NT are both wrong when they say it is Isaac... not a small thing.

 

[CG Didymus]

That is irrelevant to the point. Jews still believe that have the one true religion. They believe they are the chosen ones and that they will be restored to their former glory when the Messiah comes. They do not want to share that position of superiority with anyone else and that is why they do not try to convert anyone.

What did you say about generalizations? We should say, "some Jews" and "some Christians." But all Baha'is think they have the new teachings from God that makes all the other religions irrelevant... generally speaking.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But Tony, can you "claim" he is a manifestation of God? I think Baha'is can make that claim. And tell us all why you believe his claim that he is from God. What's the big problem with the word "claim"? Say it? Accept it? Claim it? What's the difference? We're still going to ask you why do you say it... or accept it... or claim it?

I can accept and then share what I have accepted. What claim can I make?

Baha'u'llah has offered, "... I am, verily, the All-Bountiful, the Ancient of Days.
This is the Day whereon the unseen world crieth out: “Great is thy blessedness, O earth, for thou hast been made the foot-stool of thy God, and been chosen as the seat of His mighty throne.” The realm of glory exclaimeth: “Would that my life could be sacrificed for thee, for He Who is the Beloved of the All-Merciful hath established His sovereignty upon thee, through the power of His Name that hath been promised unto all things, whether of the past or of the future.” This is the Day whereon every sweet smelling thing hath derived its fragrance from the smell of My garment—a garment that hath shed its perfume upon the whole of creation. This is the Day whereon the rushing waters of everlasting life have gushed out of the Will of the All-Merciful. Haste ye, with your hearts and souls, and quaff your fill, O Concourse of the realms above!
Say: He it is Who is the Manifestation of Him Who is the Unknowable, the Invisible of the Invisibles, could ye but perceive it. He it is Who hath laid bare before you the hidden and treasured Gem, were ye to seek it. He it is Who is the one Beloved of all things, whether of the past or of the future. Would that ye might set your hearts and hopes upon Him!
We have heard the voice of thy pleading, O Pen, and excuse thy silence. What is it that hath so sorely bewildered thee?
The inebriation of Thy presence, O Well-Beloved of all worlds, hath seized and possessed me.
Arise, and proclaim unto the entire creation the tidings that He Who is the All-Merciful hath directed His steps towards the Riḍván and entered it. Guide, then, the people unto the garden of delight which God hath made the Throne of His Paradise. We have chosen thee to be our most mighty Trumpet, whose blast is to signalize the resurrection of all mankind... "

I see in that, that God told Baha'u'llah to arise and proclaim the Message, thus it Is Baha'u'llah that holds all the proof.

Baha'u'llah asked us to share the Message to those that wish to hear and has said if it is accepted that's OK and if not then leave them to themselves.

Really, I see that I should not have ever gone into so great a detail, as I did in many OP's where people had not accepted what was said. Like Christ offered, he said dust of the sandles and move on.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Krishna... if real, his story is greatly embellished. But, very well could by mythical. Buddha... lots of legends about him too. Does his teachings even need anything resembling the Abrahamic God? Adam, Noah, and Abraham... legend and myth... especially Adam and Noah. Why do they even need to be made manifestations?

They are who they are CG. The writings attributed to both Buddha and Krishna contain many aspects of what God has offered through all the Manifestations. Unfortunately they also contain Many ideas that man added to them, but to me, it can be seen where they deviate by reading the Bible, the Koran and the Baha'i Writings.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Equating an earthquake, a meteor shower and a smoke filled day as fulfillments of something that happened years later on the other side of the world.

I do not consider that a mistake.

There is also a problem with William Miller using the year the decree went out to rebuild Jerusalem then adding 2300 years to it.

Does Bill Sears use it? Because Daniel 8 says...

13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, “How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled—the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, the surrender of the sanctuary and the trampling underfoot of the LORD’s people?”​

14 He said to me, “It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated.”

So when did the daily sacrifice cease and the rebellion take place? From that year we can add 2300 mornings and evenings. There is one interpretation, a Jewish one, that says this is about the Maccabee Rebellion. What do you think?

I am staying out of that because I do not know enough about it.

Some prophecies can have more than one meaning but as a whole they point only to one man, as Sears concluded.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

what about religions that had multiple messengers?

The One God will be seen in all the Messages given by God. All the Names of God can also be seen in many of those Messages.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Take a look at the table of contents. It is a Baha'i book. It's not going to go in depth into each chapter of Revelation. And, it will only repeat what Abdul Baha' has said in SAQ about the Three Woes and the Two Witnesses.

If you believe you can interpret it better you do not need a book.
I really do not care what it means because my belief does not rest upon it.

 

[Trailblazer]

I have, but I was believing three different things about God and truth each time. That makes me think that religious/spiritual beliefs are relative. If a person believes they are true, they become true for them.

That makes me think that spiritual experiences are not a good indicator of truth.