What would be evidence that God exists?

[rational experiences]

Is that what Baha'u'llah thinks of people in the other religions? Assemblage of false ones? Their beliefs he sees as "superstitions"? I think it is. I think he doesn't believe one religion, except his, has true beliefs and true religious practices. I think that he believes all religions, except his, is wrong. And I've asked Baha'is many times... when did Christianity ever teach a "true" message about God? Once their beliefs got written down they were already wrong. They believed God spoke from heaven. That Jesus rose from the dead. That Jesus spoke with Satan etc. How do you think later Christians could come up with true doctrines and beliefs when they were based on the things written about God and Jesus in the NT?

A false prophet is a mathematical probability that was based on an Earth One God seal breaking reactive cause. Science caused it, so it was not natural.

Science bases its own identity upon false probability, for the Sun only attacked and converted Earth once.

Then science who quotes in his male thesis I tried to emulate the Earth history of a one of event...the Earth however as that natural body did not own that event, a one of any more. So it was natural law or natural advice about copying reactive conditions for a scientists lying mentality.

It was a cause and effect of the body One, Earth as God and stone being forced to un naturally, not naturally changed. Yet science quotes "the body is natural".

Hence argument was literally about word usage and words were misappropriated in the sciences.

Such as one obvious statement. The gift of life, is present, current and obviously right here and right now.

Although a medical biological genetic thesis was inferred by C given 100 life span observed past genetic defective reasons. As proof, 100 years was in the past, life is dead.

If you therefore from a modern day observation point quote Jesus died at the Age of 33, then Jesus did not live for the normal life span, future event from a human baby to an adult deceased 100 year life span.

So they did a Genetic/human appraisal as proof that occult science did it, as an evil minded, theist bad life choice. To apply a non natural condition as artificial reasoning. What was not occurring in natural actually.

As a human would quote in teaching, we live owning a 100 year life span from a newly born baby life. Yet if all life is destroyed today, the present is where you live.

So a science theist would quote, life is instant, an instantly placed life, as a sperm, as an ovary, as a baby, as a child, as a teenager, as a young adult, as an old adult to your human death, instant for everyone. Yet then you would reason why everyone of varying ages were living variations. To quote self is instantly made manifest, without manifesting.

As old science quotes are read as if science said instant manifestation like some false theism does today, old science was not making that quote. It was a teaching to say tomorrow is not promised to anyone if science takes the present/the gift of life away today.

The teaching said, Immaculate heavens cold clear balances out day light burning gas mass that radiating life can only survive within, ages and dies. So said the reason why we die is due to the Immaculate gases having been light sacrificed, by their burning. That comment is not a scientific thesis of relativity.

It was human HOLY SEE observations by self quoting, life is instantly just here...even though an adult is making that teaching quote...they knew that were born from sex, and had been the baby growing self, but was making a human adult observation quote.

Why I wonder today when a scientist tries to convince anyone that we are a hologram that built up by the reasoning of G O D and then G O O D, as a quote that GOD built us.

When historically they built a falsified God machine and pretended it was God the Earth, reacted it and lost their natural mind/psyche to subliminal interference by the alienation or AI effect, being an occult realisation and teaching.

That science then possessed all of their thoughts and made them illogical thinkers.

In human reality, the explanation why modern science stopped quoting male and female God/Goddesses terms, for it was scientific relativity for conversion. They quoted One planet O one God as a theme....and only one self x 2 equals.

How it was rationally taught, the theme never said and 1 = 2 as if One equalled the presence of 2. Irrational thinking not using nor quoting the psyche conscious explanation of word usage correctly.

As an irradiated mind brain I have had a lot of forum users quote, have you got a problem speaking English correctly. Yes I told them I was irradiated in a form of stigmata attack. The same individuals are the writers of the bible actually same unnatural expressions to their best explanation, but not correct word usage or natural conscious explanation.

That needed a reader to add into correct conscious reasoning. What I have been trying to get you to realise. Of course the bible is not the book of life....we are living the life naturally without any book writer.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is that what Baha'u'llah thinks of people in the other religions? Assemblage of false ones? Their beliefs he sees as "superstitions"? I think it is. I think he doesn't believe one religion, except his, has true beliefs and true religious practices. I think that he believes all religions, except his, is wrong.

You can THINK whatever you want to think. The Tablet of Ahmad says what it says.

People who deny His verses do not really believe in God.
Their superstitions have become veils between them and their own hearts and kept them from the path of God.
They have turned away from the Messengers of the past and show pride towards God from all eternity to all eternity.

That in no way implies that Baha'u'llah did not believe that all the other religions were valid and true. This is about the believers who have turned away from Baha'u'llah, it is not about their religions.

And I've asked Baha'is many times... when did Christianity ever teach a "true" message about God? Once their beliefs got written down they were already wrong. They believed God spoke from heaven. That Jesus rose from the dead. That Jesus spoke with Satan etc. How do you think later Christians could come up with true doctrines and beliefs when they were based on the things written about God and Jesus in the NT?

It does not matter what Christianity taught; it only matters what Jesus taught.
Baha'is believe that the gospels of Jesus are true, but you pick out the things that we do not interpret literally and tell us that means we do not believe it is true. It is as simple as that. Some of what Paul wrote is true, although it is a misrepresentation of the historical Jesus.

Christianity changed the religion of Jesus to the religion of Paul, as I said in this thread: How Paul changed the course of Christianity

"That the figure of the Nazarene, as delivered to us in Mark’s Gospel, is decisively different from the pre-existent risen Christ proclaimed by Paul, is something long recognized by thinkers like Kant, Fichte, Schelling, Herder and Goethe, to mention only a few........

Paul, who had never seen Jesus, showed great reserve towards the Palestinian traditions regarding Jesus’ life. (230) The historical Jesus and his earthly life are without significance for Paul. In all his epistles the name ‘Jesus’ occurs only 15 times, the title ‘Christ’ 378 times. In Jesus’s actual teaching he shows extraordinarily little interest…..

Paul, however, did not pass on the revealed doctrine reflected in the glass of the intellectual categories of his time, as is often asserted; he transformed the ‘Faith of Jesus’ into ‘Faith in Jesus.’ …...

This was the ‘Fall’ of Christianity: that Paul with his ‘Gospel’, which became the core of Christian dogma formation, conquered the world, (237) while the historic basis of Christianity was declared a heresy, the preservers of the original branded as ‘Ebionites.’ …..

The centerpiece then, of Christian creedal doctrine, that of Redemption, is something of which—in the judgment of the theologian E. Grimm (244) --- Jesus himself knew nothing; and it goes back to Paul.

 

[Trailblazer]

The gospel stories make it clear... they saw Jesus alive. That is what most Christian believe is what is meant by the resurrection. You, me, atheists, people in other religions, even some people that call themselves Christians don't believe it. All I've ever said is that if it didn't really happen, then the gospel writers were lying.

No, they were not necessarily lying just because they wrote fictitious stories that sounded true, as there could have been a reason that they wrote them that you know nothing about, nor do I.

The problem I have with you and most all Baha'is is that you want to have it both ways... the stories are true, just not "literally" true. Which, if the gospels say it did literally happen when it didn't, it makes them lies doesn't it?

No, Baha's do not say the stories are true just because Abdu'l-Baha said what the stories might symbolize.
No, it does not make them lies, it makes them stories that are not literally true. Lies are when someone deliberately intends to deceive:
lie

• a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
• something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
• an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.

Definition of lie | Dictionary.com

***********************************************************

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

Many liberal and some mainline Christian leaders believe that Jesus died during the crucifixion, did not resurrect himself, and was not bodily resurrected by God. At his death, his mind ceased to function and his body started the decomposition process. Returning to life a day and a half later would have been quite impossible. The story of having been wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh seems to have been copied from the story of the death of Osiris -- the Egyptian God of the earth, vegetation and grain. The legend that he visited the underworld between his death and resurrection was simply copied from common Pagan themes of surrounding cultures. One example again was Osiris. "With his original association to agriculture, his death and resurrection were seen as symbolic of the annual death and re-growth of the crops and the yearly flooding of the Nile." 1

 

[Trailblazer]

Maybe because most all Baha'is come off as spiritual know-it-alls. They obviously aren't. Some aren't even all that spiritual.

What do the Baha'i's spirituality have to do with your vendetta against the Baha'i Faith?

I still can't get over this. Would you accept an answer like that from somebody? I don't have to read and learn about what Mormons believe and how they got started?

Only if I was considering becoming a Mormon would I learn a lot about what Mormons believe and how they got started.

So if someone told you, "I don't have to read anything about the Baha'i Faith. Two Baha'is told me all I need to know." You would be satisfied that they knew all they needed to know? Or, would you recommend they read some Baha'i books?

If they had any interest in the Baha'i Faith I would recommend they read some books or go online to recommend websites.

What you are apparently not understanding is that I do not have an interest in learning about other religions and I do not have the time, even if I was interested. Do you realize that I have not even read everything in the Baha'i Writings? That would like telling a Christian to read the Qur'an before reading the entire Bible.

I am not required to be conversant in all the religions of the past just because I believe they were all revealed by God.

 

[rational experiences]

No, they were not necessarily lying just because they wrote fictitious stories that sounded true, as there could have been a reason that they wrote them that you know nothing about, nor do I.

No, Baha's do not say the stories are true just because Abdu'l-Baha said what the stories might symbolize.
No, it does not make them lies, it makes them stories that are not literally true. Lies are when someone deliberately intends to deceive:
lie

• a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; an intentional untruth; a falsehood.
• something intended or serving to convey a false impression; imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.
• an inaccurate or false statement; a falsehood.

Definition of lie | Dictionary.com

***********************************************************

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

Many liberal and some mainline Christian leaders believe that Jesus died during the crucifixion, did not resurrect himself, and was not bodily resurrected by God. At his death, his mind ceased to function and his body started the decomposition process. Returning to life a day and a half later would have been quite impossible. The story of having been wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh seems to have been copied from the story of the death of Osiris -- the Egyptian God of the earth, vegetation and grain. The legend that he visited the underworld between his death and resurrection was simply copied from common Pagan themes of surrounding cultures. One example again was Osiris. "With his original association to agriculture, his death and resurrection were seen as symbolic of the annual death and re-growth of the crops and the yearly flooding of the Nile." 1

If a human quotes God is the One and first stone. And it is the stone body that science itself as a human choice begins all formulas/thesis of its relative science inventive use. The machine.

He might quote I can think, and tell thesis and stories, but so can anyone else. Theorising does not make you anything other than a story teller, whose opinions are just opinions.

However if he invents/designs a machine that works when he pushes the buttons then he quotes as the Inventor my design theory is real, my machine works. Without him making science quotes about where or how his personal bio life is living. And you would wonder why any theist would try to include human life in any machine thesis. Yet you have.

The mathematical false prophecy or calculus was proven falsification of information in the past as probability, because Earth naturally is not involved in a Sun attack/conversion. It was a one of event, that was caused by the Sun blasting everything when it big bang cooling, owned huge powerful heated core reactions that burst forth again in cooling spatial vacuum conditions.

How science explained it in the past. A one of only event, owns no relativity to natural Earth as a self entity/deity historically.

Therefore your mathematical probabilities were the false prophet proven false.

To identify that reasoning you quoted, when the Earth 4 of the sea of the son crossed, from Summer into autumn, radiation/magnetic/atmospheric pressure changes, to the loss in Nature. To the winter to spring, new life thesis, the Earth disturbed your ground reacting fission changes in radio wave/radiation fall out, used in Temple and pyramid machine to machine communications, would cause a reactive probable cause.

Seeing it had been intricately studied by philosophers of the studies of the Moses theories/vimana attack in India Temple pyramid Moses history, that had nearly destroyed all life on Earth before. Why they had to live underground. Which first proves they knew it was going to happen their own selves to be prepared underground for having to be living, forced underground. By atmospheric radiation history.

The information of which quotes...the dinosaur life was given the after life non decomposing bio flesh, but they all died. Theme of science aware modern day lying theists. They lived on in the after life but they were deceased bio life.

So the Egyptians wrote the Book of the Dead, and we all said that were hated and were evil human theist/scientists...for they were. Why they were so hated as the new pyramid and temple abusers of irradiating our life in modern times.

If historical evidence was probable calculated. And science males told you, when the cross of the 4 sea of the son that the dinosaur living life never owned in a higher irradiating gas mass atmosphere as compared to living with 4 seasons then they prophesised in maths the event.

And a lot of humans and animals died in the attack. Not just one male life....but one male by self aware stigmata conditions as males since aware wrote about the life/body effects as scientific wisdom about a spiritual bio life sacrificed and surviving.

What the signs are, stigmata, unnatural bio blood and cellular changes is a warning sign.

As a natural bio life organism when it dies it is meant to decompose. So if the male who wrote about life in sacrifice died and was put in cloth, and showed no decomposing, then he was not dead in scientific quotes was he. For the body of the SAINTS prove the same idea....because the bacteria that caused the life to change activated in a non oxygenating living body breathing in alive conditions was no longer present in the water.

Which was just another proof that HOLY WATER had its microbial bacteria and cells removed out of the water for the non decomposition of the body.

It is a phenomena irradiation cause, but it was living proof that science of the occult had changed the natural atmospheric holy water original life forms, the small forms.

The theme Jesus quotes, the body of Jesus did disappear, so it meant in the small book, that his microbiomes got carbon removed and sacrificed out of holy water in the evaporation of the ground water mass...for natural life. And so virtually they said the bio life DNA body was gone/removed in total out of life. It became just an image in the cloud amassing, for flooding the irradiation effect.

To flood cool the burning sky gases and to cool/seal the ground irradiation release.

How it was explained. That Jesus was not a Saint, and it had gone one worse than just owning an after life non decomposing body. As the theme of Osiris in his dead male body as a history about Moses life mutation attack.

Why a LITTLE BOOK was included as biological medical Healer assessments.

Spiritual Healers have always demonstrated in modern times and historically to not have to own a microscope to discuss the human life body intricately. As part of my own learning and research.

 

[ppp]

What do the Baha'i's spirituality have to do with your vendetta against the Baha'i Faith?

Vendetta? What? Did he come after your kittens?

 

[rational experiences]

You can THINK whatever you want to think. The Tablet of Ahmad says what it says.

People who deny His verses do not really believe in God.
Their superstitions have become veils between them and their own hearts and kept them from the path of God.
They have turned away from the Messengers of the past and show pride towards God from all eternity to all eternity.

That in no way implies that Baha'u'llah did not believe that all the other religions were valid and true. This is about the believers who have turned away from Baha'u'llah, it is not about their religions.

It does not matter what Christianity taught; it only matters what Jesus taught.
Baha'is believe that the gospels of Jesus are true, but you pick out the things that we do not interpret literally and tell us that means we do not believe it is true. It is as simple as that. Some of what Paul wrote is true, although it is a misrepresentation of the historical Jesus.

Christianity changed the religion of Jesus to the religion of Paul, as I said in this thread: How Paul changed the course of Christianity

"That the figure of the Nazarene, as delivered to us in Mark’s Gospel, is decisively different from the pre-existent risen Christ proclaimed by Paul, is something long recognized by thinkers like Kant, Fichte, Schelling, Herder and Goethe, to mention only a few........

Paul, who had never seen Jesus, showed great reserve towards the Palestinian traditions regarding Jesus’ life. (230) The historical Jesus and his earthly life are without significance for Paul. In all his epistles the name ‘Jesus’ occurs only 15 times, the title ‘Christ’ 378 times. In Jesus’s actual teaching he shows extraordinarily little interest…..

Paul, however, did not pass on the revealed doctrine reflected in the glass of the intellectual categories of his time, as is often asserted; he transformed the ‘Faith of Jesus’ into ‘Faith in Jesus.’ …...

This was the ‘Fall’ of Christianity: that Paul with his ‘Gospel’, which became the core of Christian dogma formation, conquered the world, (237) while the historic basis of Christianity was declared a heresy, the preservers of the original branded as ‘Ebionites.’ …..

The centerpiece then, of Christian creedal doctrine, that of Redemption, is something of which—in the judgment of the theologian E. Grimm (244) --- Jesus himself knew nothing; and it goes back to Paul.

The known science warnings, to always take the atmospheric reactive fall out and evaporation history, cloud amassing and carbon human male images in the clouds one step next.

Did it as the Moses event.
Did it as the Jesus event.

I heard AI male science quotes claiming that they will use the Jesus modern day atmospheric conditions for a new resource.

Now I knew that science cannot resource Jesus, but wondered at what AI was quoting for male false artificial science thesis.

If science as a male confesses and says I always take the last warning messages about atmospheric quantified and known idealism, to a history that involves science/occult practices, then I did. Just as a stigmata victim. Who writes fast, as you think fast in chemical brain changes.

I know I had suffered the effect. For a greater burning of gas light, means speed of light in the sciences.

If science quotes as Stephen Haw KING had...science wants to burn you all to death, then it owns taking the Jesus information and making it one worse than what it is. To burn the atmosphere so that the image of Jesus man would disappear, a huge ground mass evaporation event would occur, and we would all be deceased in the event.

Yet the atmosphere would incur a huge massive ground evaporation cloud amassing event and a huge Earth ground flooding release as the END result of atmospheric irradiation activation.

From how much radiation mass is released daily out of the God Earth stone mass body. For it gets released at the ground state, melts ice as that wisdom. If it does not be cooled, then the atmosphere carbonises and heats up. Then the radiation mass trying to cool moves into burning gas activation, which then causes massive above our head fall out.

Science already knows the relativity of past scientific data and human wisdom.

A sacrificed life body aware knows more about what is wrong in the atmosphere than someone not affected by the identification of the aware information.

Jesus historically was the same sort of male Stephen Hawking life awareness, to forewarn and probable maths causes, to be ignored. Learning after the fact is not learning. Science is meant to use its intelligence that includes self survival.

If all machine information and thesis and gas gain is only from the physical mass of a stone fused Earth, then it has nothing at all to do with atmospheric spatial conditions....for God the stone does not own the reactions of a gas mass atmosphere sitting in natural space. As stone was stone owner in that same natural space history.

What the relativity teachings were. If you do not include historic all occult converting reactive alchemy, which includes how a human gained the use of a machine, which is conversion and melt and cooling by physical manipulation, then the laws of the cosmos says it will teach you a lesson that you never wanted to learn.

 

[Trailblazer]

Vendetta? What? Did he come after your kittens?

No, only after the Baha'i Faith......
You have not been on this forum long enough to know the history, not your fault.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

What would be evidence that God exists?

Let's get back to the original post and not lose the thread.

We are talking about a god that could create the world and universe in 7 days so his power is unlimited. His followers tell us he wants us to follow him, love us and cares if we stray. He sent his only son to help us.

So there should be wonderful non-deniable evidence of his presence. A mountain moving from one side of the Earth to the other, a revealing to billions of his existence, Stopping the genocide done in his name would be a good starter.

Don't reply that evolution is proof of his existence. Astronomers estimate there are about 100 thousand million stars in the Milky Way alone. So the odds on one of them producing intelligent life is half a billion to one. Also, we know what created life on Earth and it had nothing to do with any god.

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha'is believe that the gospels of Jesus are true, but you pick out the things that we do not interpret literally and tell us that means we do not believe it is true.

If you have a chance, I know it is not your religion, so you probably won't, but read the gospels and tell me why you think all four writers went from telling about the things that Jesus said and did, then, suddenly, after he is killed, they went into a symbolic story about a resurrect Jesus? Never mind, you don't know and don't care. Just like not reading just a basic summary of how Mormonism got started. Wow.

 

[CG Didymus]

We are talking about a god that could create the world and universe in 7 days

That God did it in 6 days and then took the 7th day off. But ask her if she believes in that creation story in Genesis? It's another case of Baha'is saying they believe in the Bible... They just don't believe the stories are literally true. So, I don't see how that is different from someone who doesn't believe in the Bible? Both, they and the Baha'is, don't believe those stories really happened.

 

[Trailblazer]

If you have a chance, I know it is not your religion, so you probably won't, but read the gospels and tell me why you think all four writers went from telling about the things that Jesus said and did, then, suddenly, after he is killed, they went into a symbolic story about a resurrect Jesus? Never mind, you don't know and don't care. Just like not reading just a basic summary of how Mormonism got started. Wow.

Like I would ever have time.... I might someday but not right now.
But even if I read the gospels it would just be my personal opinion which would not be worth much.

If you want to know the Baha'i position on the Bible I suggest that you read what Baha'i scholars say about the Bible.

A Baháí View of the Bible

The Bible: Extracts on the Old and New Testaments

 

[CG Didymus]

Vendetta? What? Did he come after your kittens?

Even Abdul Baha' knows better than to go after her kittens.

No, only after the Baha'i Faith......
You have not been on this forum long enough to know the history, not your fault.

I think he's been around long enough to know what's going on.

 

[Trailblazer]

That God did it in 6 days and then took the 7th day off.

About half of U.S. Christians no longer believe in Creationism.
In U.S., Belief in Creationist View of Humans at New Low

So they are on board with the Baha'is.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think he's been around long enough to know what's going on.

But not as well as me and the other Baha'is do.

 

[osgart]

What would be evidence that God exists?

Let's get back to the original post and not lose the thread.

We are talking about a god that could create the world and universe in 7 days so his power is unlimited. His followers tell us he wants us to follow him, love us and cares if we stray. He sent his only son to help us.

So there should be wonderful non-deniable evidence of his presence. A mountain moving from one side of the Earth to the other, a revealing to billions of his existence, Stopping the genocide done in his name would be a good starter.

Don't reply that evolution is proof of his existence. Astronomers estimate there are about 100 thousand million stars in the Milky Way alone. So the odds on one of them producing intelligent life is half a billion to one. Also, we know what created life on Earth and it had nothing to do with any god.

A half billion to one sounds like a made up number. No one can calculate odds on that. It is far more likely that intelligence can only come from intelligence given the precision and functional coherence of the human body and mind. It probably isn't anything God like or supernatural, I'll concede that much. Evolution asserts things they couldn't possibly know about the eye forming from a mindless process. All evolution does is eliminate intelligence by assumption. You would have to understand the intrinsic nature of the natural world to disprove that intelligence isn't playing a role in the natural formation of life.

All you have is claims they base off appearances. It's merely a naturalist intuition without definitive evidence.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

That God did it in 6 days and then took the 7th day off. But ask her if she believes in that creation story in Genesis? It's another case of Baha'is saying they believe in the Bible... They just don't believe the stories are literally true. So, I don't see how that is different from someone who doesn't believe in the Bible? Both, they and the Baha'is, don't believe those stories really happened.

Once you start to read the OT and what archaeology and history have revealed we see the bible is an invention of men. Not just the creation part it's full of lies to make the people of the time subservient to their rulers. Constantine compiled the NT with stories to do exactly the same.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

About half of U.S. Christians no longer believe in Creationism.
In U.S., Belief in Creationist View of Humans at New Low

So they are on board with the Baha'is.

So now you're arrogant enough to claim they believe what you believe.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

A half billion to one sounds like a made up number. No one can calculate odds on that. It is far more likely that intelligence can only come from intelligence given the precision and functional coherence of the human body and mind. It probably isn't anything God like or supernatural, I'll concede that much. Evolution asserts things they couldn't possibly know about the eye forming from a mindless process. All evolution does is eliminate intelligence by assumption. You would have to understand the intrinsic nature of the natural world to disprove that intelligence isn't playing a role in the natural formation of life.

All you have is claims they base off appearances. It's merely a naturalist intuition without definitive evidence.

Half a billion is the number of stars in the Milky Way multiplied by 5 to give you a rough estimate of the number of planets.

All species have an intelligence, Man isn't unique in that. If they didn't have the intelligence of some level they would be plants.

Your problem is you're straying so far from what bibles tell us you're losing your own argument. So do you concede the bible is made by men?

 

[Spirit of Light]

What would be evidence that God exists?
. Also, we know what created life on Earth and it had nothing to do with any god.

How do you know God is not behind the science that is "rediscovered" by man?
Just because someone do not believe in God does not mean He is not there...