What's wrong with incest?

[Electra]

Let's admit it...we all have fantasized about our own father....at least once.

There is a difference between a curious child and a full grown man who should know boundaries. Projecting your own fantasies on your child not just once but always is suffocating.

 

[Electra]

Could you expand on what you mean here, specifically wrt why this makes incest wrong (if that is what you are saying)?

Imagine not having one person in your life who is not sexually attracted to you.
I think having people in your life in a platonic way is very very important.
That's one of the ways family is so important. If you are in a place where you can not move from the place with your family. All you want is parents or siblings who will be your friend and look after you. Sexual attraction usually clouds judgement. And weird power dynamics will come into play.

I do think that what is natural, is not such a sedentary/bound family structure, when the sex's are equal and there isn't so much possession it is usual for there not to be so much fuss on who the father is. So it's not a clear cut, this is right/this is wrong type of thing.
I think naturally if we have a healthy sex life (which most of us don't tbh) we have people who we are not attracted to, naturally there is many reasons for this but one is, close in dna, we want to breed with people who have different structure to us, so our offspring are more likely to survive.


The fantasy often comes from a love-place. If there isn't many people you have felt such strong love for and your sex life isn't healthy, we will often mix the two together.

You can have sexual fantasys and not project them onto people, you can feel the difference to one that will respect boundaries and one who won't.

nothing is ever 'wrong' or 'right' , but is this healthy? does this feel 'right' or is there apprehension? am i taking advantage of someone elses vulnerability? is this helping me grow? or keeping me stagnate?


i think when you say you can't do something or something is wrong it will always make people want to do something more
so whatever you feel you feel
but we must asses what we are feeling not just say 'this is how i am'

 

[Estro Felino]

There is a difference between a curious child and a full grown man who should know boundaries. Projecting your own fantasies on your child not just once but always is suffocating.

What I meant is we have to respect boundaries especially between parents and children...
But if I had had a brother of my same age, I wouldn't have minded to try...

 

[Electra]

What I meant is we have to respect boundaries especially between parents and children...
But if I had had a brother of my same age, I wouldn't have minded to try...

cool!

lol whatever gets your goat

i'm looking forward to meeting my blood brother soon , i am exited to meet one my ageish who's prime adjective isn't sex, *fingers crossed* or else he's out on the curb... lol... sorryimnotsorry

 

[Electra]

@Poseidon Soter

I am coming from a place of unresolved / still scabbing pain , so excuse if i am a bit all over the place.

p.s envy is a form of sexual attraction (sexual attraction, admiration and resentment) it's the ugliest emotion i have ever felt

don't get me wrong a little jealousy is good sometimes but yea... envy is a different dog

 

[Muffled]

The thread title is pretty self-explanatory. But just to expand a little, how do you define incest - how closely-related does someone need to be - and why do you think it is wrong (assuming you do - if you don't, why not?)?

PS

I believe in my cousin's family (related by marriage) te same surname six generations back led to Schizophrenia.

I asked my grandfather about a fist cousin marriage in his family and he said there were suicides.

I believe sharing great great grandparents would be as close as one should get. That would mean sharing 6% of the same genes.

I believe it is wrong because God is looking out for our best interests by forbidding it, and no-one understands the genetics better.

 

[Muffled]

There were cultures such as I believe ancient Egypt where incest was practiced. But as @Aldrnari noted, it's biologically a bad thing to do.

I believe the problem in Egypt as it was with Adam & Eve is that the only way to preserve the race was to not intermingle with other races and that meant coupling with the very few that were available. I believe it is highly likely that the race of the Pharaohs died out by being mixed. It appears the Adamic race is well mixed now also.

It is like I was telling a person celebrating his Nigerian ancestry that although he was 80% Nigerian the fact that his wife had 0 % meant that his son only had 40% Nigerian and given another geeration the Nigerian would become a small minority.

 

[Muffled]

Fair bit of it in Game of Thrones. Doesn't end well. Not that anyone ends well in that series though.

I suppose one could speculate about the mental stability of Joffrey.

 

[Poseidon Soter]

Well asking someone for their job description prior to allowing marriage seems a little weird. I think the degree of influence is a little less in the job category as well, but I certainly do not want to be caught trying to bright line a rule for degree of influence. We have jobs where people have a higher job title but no direct contact. We have people that have preexisting relationships. We have people who are peers at work and one gets promoted. We have people that work in part time roles but are not really influenced by the job at all. Creating laws which prevent people in supervisor/supervisee roles from marriage sounds like a nightmare and needless invasion of privacy, let alone tackling partners who work at the same place. But even considering all of that, I am not certain I could say that it could not be done. I guess it would have to depend on the specifics of the law.


This might be true for small businesses or maybe even have once been true. But that is hardly the case now. Business structure is varied and to add to that problem, we have had traditional business style models at family run businesses. It seems strange to say that you can work for your spouse once you are married but not before , and you could have previously worked for your spouse but not currently. This leaves us with the phenomenon that a person may work for their partner up until the point when they get married and then forever after as long as they are not working together at the time of the marriage. This just seems too arbitrary. And on top of all of that categorically this is one potential problem where as incest categorically has two.


Well privacy laws prevent us from dictating what goes on behind the bedroom doors most of the time, if that is about what you are asking. If you are wondering if we cannot also make marriage illegal for roommates that gets into the same arbitrary decision as jobs. So I guess the question is how are we going to know that a couple is engaged in a sexual relationship and living together as husband and wife?

If you are wondering if we could make sexual relations outside of marriage illegal, I think that would also be no.

I think I am still unsure of what you are proposing.

So it does seem to me that you are saying the only reason why there should be a difference between how we treat incest and how we treat sexual relations between boss/line manager and employee on grounds of potential for abuse/coercion is one of complicatedness and associated potential difficulties in implementing the law in the latter case.

And your reason for treating incest differently from sexual relations between people who are not so closely related on similar grounds again seems to be a legal one, in this case, particular kinds of privacy laws (which could arguably be changed).

 

[Poseidon Soter]

[QUOTE="Poseidon Soter, post: 5550586, member: 63930]


Beside the point.

I was just curious. IMPE, siblings are intensely hierarchical, and thrive on displaying power over one another. I was wondering if your experience was markedly different.[/QUOTE]

That seems to lessen with age, at least to a sufficient degree.

 

[Poseidon Soter]

Socially abhorring with myriads of social problems and community disarray

Please expand/explain what these are and how incest leads to community disarray.

Prophet Mohammed was asked: what is the top major sin? He replied to be a polytheist. Then was asked: what is the second next? He said " to kill your son lest he may feed with you" Then asked: and what is next? He said " to commit adultery with the wife of your neighbor"

Nothing about incest in the above.

 

[Poseidon Soter]

Why to think of incest while a lot of humans out there?

Can't always tell who one will fall for.

 

[Poseidon Soter]

Imagine not having one person in your life who is not sexually attracted to you.

I can't imagine there are many people in that position!

I think having people in your life in a platonic way is very very important.

Agreed, but those aren't limited to family.

I do think that what is natural, is not such a sedentary/bound family structure

How do you define what is natural?

I think naturally if we have a healthy sex life (which most of us don't tbh) we have people who we are not attracted to, naturally there is many reasons for this but one is, close in dna, we want to breed with people who have different structure to us, so our offspring are more likely to survive.

But what if we are attracted to family members?
And what if we aren't interested in having children (or can't)?

 

[Poseidon Soter]

@Poseidon Soter

I am coming from a place of unresolved / still scabbing pain , so excuse if i am a bit all over the place.

p.s envy is a form of sexual attraction (sexual attraction, admiration and resentment) it's the ugliest emotion i have ever felt

don't get me wrong a little jealousy is good sometimes but yea... envy is a different dog

No problem at all.

 

[FearGod]

Can't always tell who one will fall for.

There're a lot, don't you think so?

 

[Poseidon Soter]

I believe in my cousin's family (related by marriage) te same surname six generations back led to Schizophrenia.

I asked my grandfather about a fist cousin marriage in his family and he said there were suicides.

I believe sharing great great grandparents would be as close as one should get. That would mean sharing 6% of the same genes.

I believe it is wrong because God is looking out for our best interests by forbidding it, and no-one understands the genetics better.

Why do you believe that sharing great great grandparents is as close as one should get?

Obviously, if your bottom line is 'God forbids it, therefore it is wrong', I can't really argue with that.

 

[Poseidon Soter]

There're a lot, don't you think so?

Potentially a huge number indeed. But what if someone falls for, say, their sibling. No-one else will do for them. Where is the wrong in that?

 

[FearGod]

Potentially a huge number indeed. But what if someone falls for, say, their sibling. No-one else will do for them. Where is the wrong in that?

Love doesn't mean sex.

 

[Poseidon Soter]

Love doesn't mean sex.

Sure, but for the sake of argument, let's say that the person in question desires a sexual relationship too.

 

[Curious George]

So it does seem to me that you are saying the only reason why there should be a difference between how we treat incest and how we treat sexual relations between boss/line manager and employee on grounds of potential for abuse/coercion is one of complicatedness and associated potential difficulties in implementing the law in the latter case.

And your reason for treating incest differently from sexual relations between people who are not so closely related on similar grounds again seems to be a legal one, in this case, particular kinds of privacy laws (which could arguably be changed).

Yes, but I believe we ought not depreciate privacy. Could the laws be different? Sure. Should they be different, not so sure. I think the laws are sufficient even though they may make illegal some actions that are not contrary to the purposes of the law. Law needn't in all cases be narrowly tailored.